GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[beta]

that is not the point. in post #9394, you stated there is " one law for all ".

Paul said in Romans 2 v.14- gentiles do not have the Law.

do you agree or disagree with Paul's statement?

Of course it's in scripture...but what exactly does it mean ? just what it says...the gentiles have not the law - it's just a statement being made.
So the consequence of this is 'they are a law unto themselves...they don't consider themselves dependent on God...in other words they do as they please...accusing and excusing each other as they see fit...and this is amply evident on these forums where everybody has their own opinions and tries to teach them. I doubt if there is such confusion in any other religion !
So I have to ask how you expect to receive God's Holy Spirit only given to the obedient ? not while you are not part of the commonwealth of Israel being as you are without God Eph 2. since when has God ever had a Covenant with GENTILES you claim to be ?

 

[gb9]

Of course it's in scripture...but what exactly does it mean ? just what it says...the gentiles have not the law - it's just a statement being made.
So the consequence of this is 'they are a law unto themselves...they don't consider themselves dependent on God...in other words they do as they please...accusing and excusing each other as they see fit...and this is amply evident on these forums where everybody has their own opinions and tries to teach them. I doubt if there is such confusion in any other religion !
So I have to ask how you expect to receive God's Holy Spirit only given to the obedient ? not while you are not part of the commonwealth of Israel being as you are without God Eph 2. since when has God ever had a Covenant with GENTILES you claim to be ?

in Genesis 22, God says to Abraham- through your seed , all the nations of the earth shall be blessed , because you have obeyed My voice.

that is how the gentiles got blessed. by the Abrahamic Covenant . fulfilled in Christ.

have you ever actually read the Bible from start to finish all the way straight through? you seem not to know that much about how the old, new, for jews only Scripture .

 

[Endoscopy]

Of course it's in scripture...but what exactly does it mean ? just what it says...the gentiles have not the law - it's just a statement being made.
So the consequence of this is 'they are a law unto themselves...they don't consider themselves dependent on God...in other words they do as they please...accusing and excusing each other as they see fit...and this is amply evident on these forums where everybody has their own opinions and tries to teach them. I doubt if there is such confusion in any other religion !
So I have to ask how you expect to receive God's Holy Spirit only given to the obedient ? not while you are not part of the commonwealth of Israel being as you are without God Eph 2. since when has God ever had a Covenant with GENTILES you claim to be ?

Clarification
I agree with your statement. I put it this way.
Jesus said the law is in force until the heavens and earth disappear.
Therefore all are under the law.
Jesus paid the penalty for breaking the law for all when they accept him as savior.
Saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
Non Christians especially atheists reject God and Jesus.
Thus they reject the concept of the law
They will be judged according to the law anyway.
Basic rule is ignorance of the law is no excuse.

God made a covenant with Israel.
He said He would chastise them.
Jews are unique in history. All other people chased out of their country just disappeared. Jews have held their identity for almost 2000 years.

 

[posthuman]

I apologize. I misread your statement. I agree with you!

yay

i hope Studyman will make some sense of it for us.

 

[Endoscopy]

yay

i hope Studyman will make some sense of it for us.

Don't hold your breath.

 

[tourist]

I WAS A 7TH DAY ADVENTIST FOR 47 YEARS , READ 2 CORINTHIANS 3

My wife is one too. I have attended many services with her. A lot of nice bible believing peeps there and they preach that salvation comes by the shed blood of Jesus dying for our sins.

 

[beta]

in Genesis 22, God says to Abraham- through your seed , all the nations of the earth shall be blessed , because you have obeyed My voice.

that is how the gentiles got blessed. by the Abrahamic Covenant . fulfilled in Christ.

have you ever actually read the Bible from start to finish all the way straight through? you seem not to know that much about how the old, new, for jews only Scripture .

So we are now in a new Covenant and there is no mention of any gentiles...blessed or otherwise....we have to become spiritual Jews/Isrealites through the circumcision of the heart Rom 2v29.
Since GOD's people are to be ONE with Him we also take on HIS laws/Commandments when we turn to Him ! No longer are we to be a law unto 'ourselves.

That is true Conversion !

 

[graceNpeace]

My wife is one too. I have attended many services with her. A lot of nice bible believing peeps there and they preach that salvation comes by the shed blood of Jesus dying for our sins.

Except that they don't...
They actually teach that one needs to lead a sinless existence and persevere, by remaining sinless, until one dies...
Basically, they don't believe in salvation by grace through faith and consequently have no belief in assurance of salvation.
Salvation, and maintaining it, just devolves into a strictly behavioural, works based routine, where the slightest infractions mean loss of salvation.

Sabbath observance is particularly important here, so much so that they invented two doctrines out of thin air, called the doctrine of the mark of the Beast, and the doctrine of the seal of God.
Both these terms seem very familiar to orthodox Christians but they mean quite different things to an Adventist...
Essentially, in Adventist theology both the seal of God and the mark of the Beast are irrevocably tied to Sabbath observance,
If one remains a faithful Adventist all one's life, particularly observing the Sabbath, when one dies, then one may get the seal of God which means one gets to go to heaven.
However, the mark of the Beast is reserved for all those who were never Sabbath observers or those who were Sabbath observers in the Adventist church but were not faithful to the end.

Essentially, salvation by the shed blood of Jesus is just irrelevant to an Adventist - doing what the Adventist church tells you with specific reference to the Sabbath is the only true discriminator between the saved and the lost in Adventist theology...

Purely salvation by works!

 

[gb9]

So we are now in a new Covenant and there is no mention of any gentiles...blessed or otherwise....we have to become spiritual Jews/Isrealites through the circumcision of the heart Rom 2v29.
Since GOD's people are to be ONE with Him we also take on HIS laws/Commandments when we turn to Him ! No longer are we to be a law unto 'ourselves.

That is true Conversion !

wrong again. when one accepts Christ, one does not need to become an ancient Hebrew person to be saved. what are the N.T. commands? believe in the name of the Son and love one another. 1st John 3.

true conversion is believing in Jesus, trusting Him for salvation, not trust keeping the Law.

 

[Studyman]

Studydude does just this.

He says the woman caught in adultery doesn't need to be stoned to death because she's already spiritually dead. He says law is satisfied - and this before the cross, with no evidence the woman is a believer.

After the cross, for people definitely believers, however he says they must physically observe sabbath or else.

Hypocritical?

Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

You are free to ignore this scripture, or preach Paul actually physically died here, or that this death he speaks of didn't fall on the Adulterous woman. It's your religion.

Jesus message is the same to Jews and Gentiles alike. "go and sin no more".

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Your unbelief in the Bible doesn't make the Faith of God Void. Your childish insults and words designed to hurt me, only hurt yourself. (Spiritually speaking of course.)

I believe we should follow what the Bible says, not the Pope. But you are free to follow whom ever you choose.

 

[posthuman]

Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

You are free to ignore this scripture, or preach Paul actually physically died here, or that this death he speaks of didn't fall on the Adulterous woman. It's your religion.

Jesus message is the same to Jews and Gentiles alike. "go and sin no more".

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Your unbelief in the Bible doesn't make the Faith of God Void. Your childish insults and words designed to hurt me, only hurt yourself. (Spiritually speaking of course.)

I believe we should follow what the Bible says, not the Pope. But you are free to follow whom ever you choose.

Does the law command literal physical execution as penalty for sin, yes or no?

 

[Endoscopy]

Does the law command literal physical execution as penalty for sin, yes or no?

Read it for yourself.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
All 613 Commandments in the Old Testament Law of Moses

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[posthuman]

Does the law command literal physical execution as penalty for sin, yes or no?

Numbers 15:35-36
Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

This sure sounds like literal, physical, tangible stones to me, being actually physically thrown in order to literally, physically, actually extinguish the literal, physical, corporeal life of a literal, physical, actual fleshly body.

The scripture doesn't seem to give any indication that they 'got it wrong' either; in fact it says they proceeded "as the LORD commanded"

Hmm

 

[posthuman]

Numbers 15:35-36
Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses.

This sure sounds like literal, physical, tangible stones to me, being actually physically thrown in order to literally, physically, actually extinguish the literal, physical, corporeal life of a literal, physical, actual fleshly body.

The scripture doesn't seem to give any indication that they 'got it wrong' either; in fact it says they proceeded "as the LORD commanded"

Hmm

So given that, ((we believe the Bible, right??)) what does this literally say:

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

?

 

[beta]

wrong again. when one accepts Christ, one does not need to become an ancient Hebrew person to be saved. what are the N.T. commands? believe in the name of the Son and love one another. 1st John 3.

true conversion is believing in Jesus, trusting Him for salvation, not trust keeping the Law.

The Lord has just prompted me to literally put aside my work and offer you a helping hand ! we all need to 'move on' from the basic belief in Christ...not abandoning it but keeping it as a firm foundation on which to grow and build 2Pet 3v18....so, staying with your original belief is to deny all other scriptures that urge us on to eventual holiness and perfection....don't refuse to learn, move on and up to the place God is preparing for you Joh 14. but it takes courage and complete trust in the Lord (and you speak of) to let go of what we already have and add NEW ways God shows us...Growing into a new man means change !
I'll just leave it there for you to digest, it is an awesome opportunity God offers you...as He does to all who will hear !

 

[posthuman]

So given that, ((we believe the Bible, right??)) what does this literally say:

Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

?

Consider everyone already dead ever since the commandment came, and do absolutely nothing since it's 'metaphysically/spiritually accomplished' ?

Or literally put them to literal, physical death?

Or

Are we operating outside the context of the Sinaitic Covenant Law here?

 

[posthuman]

Studydude?

Care to explain your seemingly incongruous positions?
Or maybe insult me some more..? ((lol))

 

[gb9]

The Lord has just prompted me to literally put aside my work and offer you a helping hand ! we all need to 'move on' from the basic belief in Christ...not abandoning it but keeping it as a firm foundation on which to grow and build 2Pet 3v18....so, staying with your original belief is to deny all other scriptures that urge us on to eventual holiness and perfection....don't refuse to learn, move on and up to the place God is preparing for you Joh 14. but it takes courage and complete trust in the Lord (and you speak of) to let go of what we already have and add NEW ways God shows us...Growing into a new man means change !
I'll just leave it there for you to digest, it is an awesome opportunity God offers you...as He does to all who will hear !

thank you. that is my goal. as long as we understand that the Sermon on the Mount is what Jesus laid out as the ideal behavior of a follower of His. that should all of our goals.

now, if you think one grows into the Law and Sabbath, then I have to disagree, that is jewish, not Christian. the Law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, then His teaching supersede . ( God the father- " this is my beloved Son. hear Him!)

 

[beta]

thank you. that is my goal. as long as we understand that the Sermon on the Mount is what Jesus laid out as the ideal behavior of a follower of His. that should all of our goals.

now, if you think one grows into the Law and Sabbath, then I have to disagree, that is jewish, not Christian. the Law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, then His teaching supersede . ( God the father- " this is my beloved Son. hear Him!)

I would give you a 'like' for the first paragraph but the second needs a lot more work on both our parts....but we are getting there...very slowly and likely still a few 'set-backs...but let's persevere !

First I would need to know just which laws you are set against....Moses' or God's Com's ? some have been fulfilled and some are 'spiritual and eternal. what is your view on these ?

 

[Dan_473]

thank you. that is my goal. as long as we understand that the Sermon on the Mount is what Jesus laid out as the ideal behavior of a follower of His. that should all of our goals.

now, if you think one grows into the Law and Sabbath, then I have to disagree, that is jewish, not Christian. the Law is the schoolmaster that brings us to Christ, then His teaching supersede . ( God the father- " this is my beloved Son. hear Him!)

Amen

this is the Law and the Prophets

In everything treat people the same way you want[j]them to treat you

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew7&version=NASB



Therefore the Law has become our*tutor*to lead usto Christ, so that*we may be justified by faith.25*But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a*[ai]tutor.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians3&version=NASB