Loss of salvation.

[Ralph-]

I leave nothing off.....faith that JESUS began, finishes and COMPLETES<-----this is what you devalue, leave off and chunk under the bus by your false, anti-biblical stance.......

He will strengthen and support your believing as long as that's what you want to keep doing.

Believing is what we do, but that hardly means it can be done without God's help. Just because we can't do it without God's help doesn't mean we don't have to do it, or that he does it for us.

..............................................

Believing is how you access the security of justification/salvation.

Your ever-increasing life of right living is how you have the assurance that you are justified/saved.


With God's help, keep believing, people.

 

[Ralph-]

I leave nothing off.....faith that JESUS began, finishes and COMPLETES<-----

And so I said....

If you want to argue that believers can't stop believing, then fine. The important thing is that we agree that the unbeliever, whether he never really believed to begin with or stopped believing along the way, is lost either way. And that unbelief is signified by the unchanged/unchanging life.

 

[dcontroversal]

He will strengthen and support your believing as long as that's what you want to keep doing.

Believing is what we do, but that hardly means it can be done without God's help. Just because we can't do it without God's help doesn't mean we don't have to do it, or that he does it for us.

..............................................

Believing is how you access the security of justification/salvation.

Your ever-increasing life of right living is how you have the assurance that you are justified/saved.


With God's help, keep believing, people.

That is not what the word states and exactly why you are false....you embellish with your own view...the bible is clear...HE WILL COMPLETE the good work of faith he began in me.....it is his work pal....He started it, he finishes it and he completes it.....your view is false and totally devalues the work and promises of Christ....end of story!

 

[Ralph-]

That is not what the word states and exactly why you are false....you embellish with your own view...the bible is clear...HE WILL COMPLETE the good work of faith he began in me.....it is his work pal....He started it, he finishes it and he completes it.....your view is false and totally devalues the work and promises of Christ....end of story!

And least we agree that only those who believe now and to the very end are and will be saved. And that those who aren't living for Jesus aren't saved and won't be saved when he comes back if they stay on the path they're on.

You agree with this, right?

 

[dcontroversal]

And least we agree that only those who believe now and to the very end are and will be saved. And that those who aren't living for Jesus aren't saved and won't be saved when he comes back if they stay on the path they're on.

You agree with this, right?

No, I don't agree.....God does not whip (chastise) those who are walking faithfully....and he ONLY whips SONS whom he receives....the bible does not teach the loss of salvation, it does teach the loss of reward and it does teach that children who walk contrary will be whipped and possibly forfeit life if they refuse to get right.....

Incorruptable seed is exactly that.....we are BORN of INCORRUPTABLE SEED by the living word of GOD.....it is our spirit that has been born again eternally and NO where does it teach that the seed can be corrupted and or lose that which is eternally given.......

 

[Ralph-]

No, I don't agree.....God does not whip (chastise) those who are walking faithfully....and he ONLY whips SONS whom he receives....the bible does not teach the loss of salvation, it does teach the loss of reward and it does teach that children who walk contrary will be whipped and possibly forfeit life if they refuse to get right.....

Incorruptable seed is exactly that.....we are BORN of INCORRUPTABLE SEED by the living word of GOD.....it is our spirit that has been born again eternally and NO where does it teach that the seed can be corrupted and or lose that which is eternally given.......

So you (and BillG) don't agree with John that the person who practices sin is not of God?


"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10


Why not?

 

[mailmandan]

So you (and BillG) don't agree with John that the person who practices sin is not of God?

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10

Why not?

That is "descriptive" of a child of the devil and not a child of God.

 

[Grandpa]

All of you people who think you can stop believing, try it.

Take something that you know is true, that you see evidence of, and then stop believing in it. BY an act of your own will discontinue your belief in it.

After you have convinced yourself that the truth that you once knew is now un-true, by an act of your own will, lets go back and check to see if your un-belief has actually changed anything.

In other words, the truth that you once knew, by an act of your own un-belief, does it now change any facts and make truth un-truth?


I've used gravity as an example before but maybe that is too difficult. Maybe try to believe that there is no such thing as birds, or night or some other thing that you already know is true.

I don't think it is possible to know Truth and then by an act of will to stop believing that Truth. You can't un-know something or un-see anything.

John 6:67-68

[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.​

 

[Ralph-]

That is "descriptive" of a child of the devil and not a child of God.

Yep. This describes a person who is not born again.


"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10"


And whether or not they ever really believed to begin with or stopped believing somewhere along the line and became lost again is where we have the difference of opinion. But what does it matter since either way this person is not going to inherit the kingdom when Christ returns.

So let's start focusing on what really matters, people. Let's start growing up into maturity so we can know for sure that we are born again and ready to meet Christ when he returns.

 

[Ralph-]

All of you people who think you can stop believing, try it.

Take something that you know is true, that you see evidence of, and then stop believing in it. BY an act of your own will discontinue your belief in it.

After you have convinced yourself that the truth that you once knew is now un-true, by an act of your own will, lets go back and check to see if your un-belief has actually changed anything.

In other words, the truth that you once knew, by an act of your own un-belief, does it now change any facts and make truth un-truth?


I've used gravity as an example before but maybe that is too difficult. Maybe try to believe that there is no such thing as birds, or night or some other thing that you already know is true.

I don't think it is possible to know Truth and then by an act of will to stop believing that Truth. You can't un-know something or un-see anything.

John 6:67-68

[SUP]67 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
[SUP]68 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.​

A person is not born again because they believe the gospel is true. A person is born again because they trust in the gospel that is true. Simply replace 'believing' with 'trusting' in your post and we'll all see how possible it is to stop trusting in the truth of the gospel.

That's what the Galatians stop doing. They stopped trusting in Christ for justification and had gone backwards to trusting in the works of the law for justification and were in danger of becoming slaves to the old covenant/flesh again, and as a result would no longer be heirs of the promises with the children of the New Covenant/Spirit. Every Galatian who heeded Paul's warning to continue to trust in Christ for justification will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. Every one of them who did will.

 

[Ralph-]

Now let's ask ourselves how this can be relevant to the church of today.

The church of today is like the many who Christ will turn away when he comes back.


"22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand."-Matthew 7:22-23, 26


They had many 'religious' workings to boast about, but they were disobedient. Many in the church today are very active in church programs, church attendance, loud, even emotional praise of God's grace, active in evangelism, speaking, leading Bible studies, counseling fellow believers, tithing to the church, etc. but they live disobedient, lawless lives at home. Despite their loud proclamation of God's grace and works of service they will be turned away from Christ as unbelievers based on the evidence of their unchanged/unchanging lives.

They don't trust in Christ as much as they think they do. Their unchanged personal lives being the evidence of that:

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10"


The truly distressing part of all this being they took false comfort in a teaching that told them they could never ever lose their salvation no matter how they lived, or for some, no matter if they even continued to trust in Christ to the very end or not.

 

[Ralph-]

Every Galatian who heeded Paul's warning to continue to trust in Christ for justification will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. Every one of them who did will.

Note correction. Left out some words:

"Every Galatian who DID NOT heed Paul's warning to continue to trust in Christ for justification will not inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back. Every one of them who did will."

 

[Ariel82]

The real issue is when someone makes no room in their heart for the holy spirit.

From my personal experience God makes room in our hearts for the Holy Spirit by burning things that we thought were important but He reveals are just dirty tags.

 

[Metternich]

Now let's ask ourselves how this can be relevant to the church of today.

The church of today is like the many who Christ will turn away when he comes back.


"22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand."-Matthew 7:22-23, 26


They had many 'religious' workings to boast about, but they were disobedient. Many in the church today are very active in church programs, church attendance, loud, even emotional praise of God's grace, active in evangelism, speaking, leading Bible studies, counseling fellow believers, tithing to the church, etc. but they live disobedient, lawless lives at home. Despite their loud proclamation of God's grace and works of service they will be turned away from Christ as unbelievers based on the evidence of their unchanged/unchanging lives.

They don't trust in Christ as much as they think they do. Their unchanged personal lives being the evidence of that:

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10"


The truly distressing part of all this being they took false comfort in a teaching that told them they could never ever lose their salvation no matter how they lived, or for some, no matter if they even continued to trust in Christ to the very end or not.

The best example of this is 2 Pet 2:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[Didymous]

The best example of this is 2 Pet 2:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

This whole chapter is speaking of false prophets and false teachers

 

[dcontroversal]

So you (and BillG) don't agree with John that the person who practices sin is not of God?


"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10


Why not?

You know, one thing I have noticed about you is the very deceptive, snake like way you twist what people say, misquotes, apply things not said, imply we say certain things and flat lie about things that are said which you have been hammered on in almost every thread that you post in when you disagree with truth in favor of your religious twist......

The context is clear.....SOMEONE WHOSE way of life is nothing but SIN is exactly what is being discussed in that verse....NOT a believer that fails and or in a moment of weakness or for a season fails in sin....

It becomes more evident every day who it is that leads you......

 

[Metternich]

Now let's ask ourselves how this can be relevant to the church of today.

The church of today is like the many who Christ will turn away when he comes back.


"22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand."-Matthew 7:22-23, 26


They had many 'religious' workings to boast about, but they were disobedient. Many in the church today are very active in church programs, church attendance, loud, even emotional praise of God's grace, active in evangelism, speaking, leading Bible studies, counseling fellow believers, tithing to the church, etc. but they live disobedient, lawless lives at home. Despite their loud proclamation of God's grace and works of service they will be turned away from Christ as unbelievers based on the evidence of their unchanged/unchanging lives.

They don't trust in Christ as much as they think they do. Their unchanged personal lives being the evidence of that:

"anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God"-1 John 3:10"


The truly distressing part of all this being they took false comfort in a teaching that told them they could never ever lose their salvation no matter how they lived, or for some, no matter if they even continued to trust in Christ to the very end or not.

The best example of this is 2 Pet 2:20-21
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[Metternich]

This whole chapter is speaking of false prophets and false teachers

Whoever they are Peter says they escaped (past tense) the defilements of the world. Only a true believer in Christ can do that. So When they fall away it is true Christians who are doing it.