Bill Johnson's Presuppositional Based Hermeneutic Is A Psychosis

[Didymous]

I know some folks who went to Bill Johnson's place in Redding, and they went there to learn their 'gifts of the Spirit.'. I've heard people from his church saying the same things that Joaniemarie here on CC says, that healing is automatic-unless you do not have enough faith. If what Bill Johnson teaches is true-then God would've healed his eyes, and he wouldn't need to wear glasses.

 

[Deade]

1) Because he rejects sound doctrine
2) I've seen videos of his carnal church

All false teachers claim to be led by the spirit. If they reject sound doctrine they are being led by a spirit, but it's not the holy spirit.

Where did that sound doctrine come from? From the church leaders that spun off the Catholic Church in the middle ages. All the Protestants did was carry all that false doctrine the Catholics started. There is your sound doctrine.

 

[Didymous]

So, I'm confused, Deade, are you supporting Bill Johnson? Are you saying Protestant denominations have false doctrine?

 

[Lancelot]

There is nothing ungodly about exposing heresies and heretics. Bill Johnson has been identified as a false teacher who teaches heresies, you perhaps you should reconsider your estimation of this preacher.

1. He teaches that Jesus SET ASIDE HIS DIVINITY.

2. Bill Johnson incredibly teaches that Jesus was "born again" in the resurrection!

3. Bill Johnson promotes the false Prosperity Gospel

4. Bill Johnson teaches that it is always God's will to heal Christians

5. Bill Johnson teaches the Word of Faith heresy

6. Bill Johnson falsely teaches that all Christians can be prophets

1. He isn't saying that Jesus EVER ceased to be God. He's just saying that Jesus emptied Himself of His divine attributes (Phil. 2:7) and ministered as a man anointed by the Holy Spirit. He may have worded it clumsily, but what he was saying is essentially what John MacArthur stated about the Holy Spirit in Jesus at the Strange Fire conference. Only a heretic hunter would interpret Johnson to mean that Jesus ever ceased to be God.

2. Johnson was saying that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and then he was born (or "begotten" in Acts 13:33) from the dead in His resurrection. Ergo, He was "born again". That doesn't mean that He ever had a sin nature and needed regeneration as we do. It just means that was born twice - once as a baby and once as the resurrected Son of God. Only a heretic hunter would miss what Bill Johnson was saying here.

3. "Tribulation" doesn't mean that you won't prosper or get your prayers answered. It means that you will receive opposition and persecution from those who don't share your world view. Bill Johnson receives plenty of opposition from people who don't like his theology and misrepresent what he believes and teaches, so he qualifies as experiencing "tribulation". But even if it wasn't always God's will to prosper His children, it wouldn't be heresy to teach that it is. It's a nonessential issue. Only a heretic hunter would claim otherwise.

4. We don't take our theology from what this guy or that guy experiences. We go by what the Bible says. Physical healing has been provided for us in the atonement. (Is. 53:4,5; Mat. 8:16,17) Jesus never turned anybody down for healing due to the fact that it wasn't God's sovereign will to heal them, and He told us that if we've seen Him we've seen the Father. Paul preached to a lame man in Acts 14 and the message that he preached caused the man to have faith for physical healing, so apparently Paul thought that healing was God's will if he was preaching it. But even if Bill Johnson was wrong about that, it's a nonessential issue and hardly qualifies as heresy. Only a heretic hunter would suggest that it's heresy to believe that God's will is healing.

5. Word of Faith teaches that faith is based on the will of God revealed in the Word of God, so it essentially agrees with what you said. And WoF teachers hold to all of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith, so WoF teaching isn't heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.

6. I don't know if Bill Johnson teaches that or not, but the Apostle Paul said that he wished that we would all prophesy. Even if Bill is wrong on this, it's not a violation of any essential doctrine of the Christian faith so it's not heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.


I'm not NAR and I don't agree with Bill Johnson on some things, but he's not a heretic and I am really tired of seeing people misrepresent the nature of heresy and mischaracterize people they don't agree with as heretics. Calling everybody you don't like a heretic trivializes heresy just like calling everybody a Nazi trivializes the horrors of the holocaust. Let's be a bit more responsible here, shall we?

 

[lightbearer]

I really don't want to get into posting stuff on the guy. Websearching Bill + Johnson + false will give you plenty of info to keep you busy.

You all ready did when you said....

1) Because he rejects sound doctrine
2) I've seen videos of his carnal church

All false teachers claim to be led by the spirit. If they reject sound doctrine they are being led by a spirit, but it's not the holy spirit.

 

[posthuman]

You're taking him out of context. Here's what he actually said.

"... whatever my heart is set upon when I come to the Bible, will determine much of what I see in the Bible. That can be good or bad, depending on whether or not I have “watched over my heart with all diligence” (Prov. 4:23). Those with evil in their hearts can find the confirmation they are looking for through the misreading of Scripture. The problem is not the method or approach to the Bible; it is whether or not we are willing to stay humble, honest, and hungry before the Lord. Our desperation for truth makes us available for things that others seem to continually miss. Keeping a pure heart makes the journey to God’s Word a journey where nothing is impossible."

What Bill Johnson is saying is that we have to guard our hearts and keep them pure before God if we don't want to misread His Word. As for the roadrunner, there was a lot more to that story. The roadrunner had been showing up on a regular basis when they had prayer meetings, which was very strange. They saw some prophetic significance in this odd occurrence and kind of adopted it as their mascot. When it flew into a window and died one day, Bill Johnson didn't understand why this symbol of the prophetic would die. God told him that the prophetic is not for the church, it's for the world. They need to allow the prophetic out to give it life.



If you don't agree with his theology or his interpretation of this strange story, that's your prerogative. But don't take him out of context in order to brand him a heretic or make similar accusations. That's not of God.

thank you for putting accurate quotes for us

re: roadrunner -- they were only at the church at certain times, e.g. prayer meetings.
there are hummningbirds that frequent my back yard. i see them when i go out there. it would be a mistake for me to think "that hummingbird loves it when i sit on the back deck to read, it's really into books, especially the one i'm currently reading. it's always drinking nectar when i'm out here reading this book. it's a sign that this book is like a flower full of nectar - hummingbirds are kinda like bees, it means i am like Samson finding honey"
the truth is, the hummingbird lives nearby. and there's a foodsource in my backyard. the bird comes into my yard whether i'm out there or not, no matter what i'm doing, unless i'm mowing the lawn or something that would scare it off.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You all ready did when you said....

I get the feeling I touched a nerve. I'm really not interested in pursuing this constant stupid back and forth about Johnson. I thought I left you enough clues to leave the matter alone with me. It makes me wonder if you follow him or his type of doctrine and are seeking an opportunity to try to justify yourself.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Where did that sound doctrine come from? From the church leaders that spun off the Catholic Church in the middle ages. All the Protestants did was carry all that false doctrine the Catholics started. There is your sound doctrine.

Sound doctrine is what is witnessed by the writings of the apostles and the holy spirit. Discarding or perverting the former, which is what all post-modern doctrines do, guarantees error.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Sound doctrine is what is witnessed by the writings of the apostles and the holy spirit. Discarding or perverting the former, which is what all post-modern doctrines do, guarantees error.

Johnson on the matter of doctrine.

Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him, we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know. (Johnson: 76)

And what does GOD say about those who abandon doctrine to follow "the spirit"?

Everyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. The one who remains in the teaching—this person has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9​

 

[7seasrekeyed]

one of the basic premise of NAR is to 'follow' a spirit, always identified by NAR as holy, even when it contradicts scritpure

and if it does contradict scripture, then just re-interpret scripture to fit the 'spirit' teaching something that is unbiblical or beyond what scripture teaches

don't you understand that these people believe they are modern day Apostles and are called...actually called...to give new revelation

you have to ignore all the warnings in scripture to go along with that

Paul's admonition against preaching 'another Jesus' just flies out the window and we end up with things like 'grave sucking', 'readings' along the lines of a fortune teller and many more subjective and untested spiritual 'revelations'

including so called 'inner healing' which is NOT in scripture and supposed memories of horrible events surfacing, like satanic ritual abuse, even when actual professionals have debunked this practice

but do carry on

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Paul's admonition against preaching 'another Jesus' just flies out the window and we end up with things like 'grave sucking', 'readings' along the lines of a fortune teller and many more subjective and untested spiritual 'revelations'

Necromancy anyone?

link > Johnson's BSSM grave soaking

 

[lightbearer]

I get the feeling I touched a nerve. I'm really not interested in pursuing this constant stupid back and forth about Johnson. I thought I left you enough clues to leave the matter alone with me. It makes me wonder if you follow him or his type of doctrine and are seeking an opportunity to try to justify yourself.

You didn’t touch a nerve. You had made accusations about somebody And did not post anything to back the claims up. And still have not. And now you went as far as to make Accusations towards me. Thanks for your time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You didn’t touch a nerve. You had made accusations about somebody And did not post anything to back the claims up. And still have not. And now you went as far as to make Accusations towards me. Thanks for your time.

I stated my opinion, and I don't have to back it up. If you don't like it, ignore me or provide evidence otherwise to refute what I said, which was that 1) Johnson eschews doctrine over experience and that 2) I've seen videos of his church that show soulish carnality.

 

[wolfwint]

1. He isn't saying that Jesus EVER ceased to be God. He's just saying that Jesus emptied Himself of His divine attributes (Phil. 2:7) and ministered as a man anointed by the Holy Spirit. He may have worded it clumsily, but what he was saying is essentially what John MacArthur stated about the Holy Spirit in Jesus at the Strange Fire conference. Only a heretic hunter would interpret Johnson to mean that Jesus ever ceased to be God.

2. Johnson was saying that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and then he was born (or "begotten" in Acts 13:33) from the dead in His resurrection. Ergo, He was "born again". That doesn't mean that He ever had a sin nature and needed regeneration as we do. It just means that was born twice - once as a baby and once as the resurrected Son of God. Only a heretic hunter would miss what Bill Johnson was saying here.

3. "Tribulation" doesn't mean that you won't prosper or get your prayers answered. It means that you will receive opposition and persecution from those who don't share your world view. Bill Johnson receives plenty of opposition from people who don't like his theology and misrepresent what he believes and teaches, so he qualifies as experiencing "tribulation". But even if it wasn't always God's will to prosper His children, it wouldn't be heresy to teach that it is. It's a nonessential issue. Only a heretic hunter would claim otherwise.

4. We don't take our theology from what this guy or that guy experiences. We go by what the Bible says. Physical healing has been provided for us in the atonement. (Is. 53:4,5; Mat. 8:16,17) Jesus never turned anybody down for healing due to the fact that it wasn't God's sovereign will to heal them, and He told us that if we've seen Him we've seen the Father. Paul preached to a lame man in Acts 14 and the message that he preached caused the man to have faith for physical healing, so apparently Paul thought that healing was God's will if he was preaching it. But even if Bill Johnson was wrong about that, it's a nonessential issue and hardly qualifies as heresy. Only a heretic hunter would suggest that it's heresy to believe that God's will is healing.

5. Word of Faith teaches that faith is based on the will of God revealed in the Word of God, so it essentially agrees with what you said. And WoF teachers hold to all of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith, so WoF teaching isn't heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.

6. I don't know if Bill Johnson teaches that or not, but the Apostle Paul said that he wished that we would all prophesy. Even if Bill is wrong on this, it's not a violation of any essential doctrine of the Christian faith so it's not heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.


I'm not NAR and I don't agree with Bill Johnson on some things, but he's not a heretic and I am really tired of seeing people misrepresent the nature of heresy and mischaracterize people they don't agree with as heretics. Calling everybody you don't like a heretic trivializes heresy just like calling everybody a Nazi trivializes the horrors of the holocaust. Let's be a bit more responsible here, shall we?

How then you Call Somebody who is not telling the truth? F.e. Johnson is claiming that God gave every believer the Power to heal as Jesus did. He statet this in Charisma Magazine 11/21/2014. This is against that what Paul teaches in the Bible. And this makes believers frustated and disappointed. Because if this is not happend, then it is their own fault.

 

[CS1]

In his book "Dreaming with God" Bill Johnson instructs that for 2,000 years Christianity has had it all wrong. Hermeneutical rules have stopped the church from a dominionist agenda that it should have. We need to not have these rules and instead approach the Bible as he does: "whatever my heart is set upon when I come to the Bible, will determine much of what I see in the Bible" p153. Bill Johnson doesn't come to the Bible to see what God has to show him but to see what he wants to see. He repeatedly says throughout the book "it is not Father, Son, Holy Bible but Holy Spirit". He claims the Holy Spirit gives him these desires which he then uses as his authority to begin his approach to the Bible. As an example, he tells the story of a roadrunner that got into his church and died. The roadrunner is kin to the eagle. The eagle represents the prophetic in the Bible. Therefore, God is speaking that the prophetic movement will die if it doesn't move out of Bill Johnson's church. Isn't that a psychosis to not see reality but see what you want to see?

I do not know Bill Johnson.

from what I see you have posted, he has allegorized the word of God. And using the method of Biblical interpretation known as Eisegeses. The Holy Spirit confirms what has been said Propheticlly from the Word of God. the big issue today with those who think they are using the gifts of the Holy Spirit in the context of Prophecy, is they are not understanding what is being said to them has to meet some very important truths.

1. ALWAYS LINES UP with the WORD of GOD
2. Anything said is confirmation by what is already Known
3. Must edify, comfort , and exhort
4. Will alway Bring Glory to God NOT man
5. NO new Revelation outside of what is already written in the Bible.
Elders 6. Elders ( Mature in the Word of God & faith) judge what has been said

We must alway take what has been said and look at it from the light of Gods word. Anything said that is not confirmed from the Word of God, the person has spoken presumptuously and is to stop and be quiet .

2Peter 1:3,8, 12,16-21 and 2cor 11:4

Both old and New are God breathed and all scriptures are given by God . Please remember the New Testament the Apostles did not have they had the Old Testament. They did not abandon the Prophetic writings of the old, nor should we.

 

[Lewiz]

well I agree with the sentiment you espouse towards the 'tude, but a little info on Johnson as in 'just the facts' presents a different picture

his background is actually Pentecostal, died in the wool Pentecostal, and I would not describe him as Charasmatic either

he is 100% NAR and I grow weary of pointing that out

but google him and he is a main cog in that large and growing number of people who believe they are called to bring Jesus back to an earthly kingdom

Bill Johnson (pastor) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnson_(pastor)


Bill Johnson (born on July 18, 1951) is a Charismatic Christian revivalist, itinerant speaker, author, and the current Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California.Denomination‎: ‎Charismatic movement
Children‎: ‎Eric Johnson; ‎Brian Johnson‎; Leah ...

Church‎: ‎Bethel Church (Redding, California)
Nationality‎: ‎American

[h=3]Bethel Church (Redding, California) - Wikipedia[/h]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_Church_(Redding,_California)

Bethel Church is a non-denominational charismatic megachurch, that was established in 1954 in Redding, California. The church, which is currently being led ...Senior pastor(s)‎: ‎Bill Johnson
Denomination‎: ‎Non-denominational charismat...

Pastor(s)‎: ‎Eric Johnson, Beni Johnson, Danny ...
Previous denomination‎: ‎Assemblies of God




Sorry, dear, you missed it this time.

 

[Lewiz]

I know some folks who went to Bill Johnson's place in Redding, and they went there to learn their 'gifts of the Spirit.'. I've heard people from his church saying the same things that Joaniemarie here on CC says, that healing is automatic-unless you do not have enough faith. If what Bill Johnson teaches is true-then God would've healed his eyes, and he wouldn't need to wear glasses.

Haa haa haa, how true.

 

[CS1]

Bill Johnson (pastor) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnson_(pastor)


Bill Johnson (born on July 18, 1951) is a Charismatic Christian revivalist, itinerant speaker, author, and the current Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California.Denomination‎: ‎Charismatic movement
Children‎: ‎Eric Johnson; ‎Brian Johnson‎; Leah ...

Church‎: ‎Bethel Church (Redding, California)
Nationality‎: ‎American

Bethel Church (Redding, California) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_Church_(Redding,_California)


Bethel Church is a non-denominational charismatic megachurch, that was established in 1954 in Redding, California. The church, which is currently being led ...Senior pastor(s)‎: ‎Bill Johnson
Denomination‎: ‎Non-denominational charismat...

Pastor(s)‎: ‎Eric Johnson, Beni Johnson, Danny ...
Previous denomination‎: ‎Assemblies of God




Sorry, dear, you missed it this time.

I think Wikipedida is wrong about Non-dem

 

[Lewiz]

1. He isn't saying that Jesus EVER ceased to be God. He's just saying that Jesus emptied Himself of His divine attributes (Phil. 2:7) and ministered as a man anointed by the Holy Spirit. He may have worded it clumsily, but what he was saying is essentially what John MacArthur stated about the Holy Spirit in Jesus at the Strange Fire conference. Only a heretic hunter would interpret Johnson to mean that Jesus ever ceased to be God.

2. Johnson was saying that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, and then he was born (or "begotten" in Acts 13:33) from the dead in His resurrection. Ergo, He was "born again". That doesn't mean that He ever had a sin nature and needed regeneration as we do. It just means that was born twice - once as a baby and once as the resurrected Son of God. Only a heretic hunter would miss what Bill Johnson was saying here.

3. "Tribulation" doesn't mean that you won't prosper or get your prayers answered. It means that you will receive opposition and persecution from those who don't share your world view. Bill Johnson receives plenty of opposition from people who don't like his theology and misrepresent what he believes and teaches, so he qualifies as experiencing "tribulation". But even if it wasn't always God's will to prosper His children, it wouldn't be heresy to teach that it is. It's a nonessential issue. Only a heretic hunter would claim otherwise.

4. We don't take our theology from what this guy or that guy experiences. We go by what the Bible says. Physical healing has been provided for us in the atonement. (Is. 53:4,5; Mat. 8:16,17) Jesus never turned anybody down for healing due to the fact that it wasn't God's sovereign will to heal them, and He told us that if we've seen Him we've seen the Father. Paul preached to a lame man in Acts 14 and the message that he preached caused the man to have faith for physical healing, so apparently Paul thought that healing was God's will if he was preaching it. But even if Bill Johnson was wrong about that, it's a nonessential issue and hardly qualifies as heresy. Only a heretic hunter would suggest that it's heresy to believe that God's will is healing.

5. Word of Faith teaches that faith is based on the will of God revealed in the Word of God, so it essentially agrees with what you said. And WoF teachers hold to all of the essential doctrines of the Christian faith, so WoF teaching isn't heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.

6. I don't know if Bill Johnson teaches that or not, but the Apostle Paul said that he wished that we would all prophesy. Even if Bill is wrong on this, it's not a violation of any essential doctrine of the Christian faith so it's not heresy. Only a heretic hunter would claim that it is.


I'm not NAR and I don't agree with Bill Johnson on some things, but he's not a heretic and I am really tired of seeing people misrepresent the nature of heresy and mischaracterize people they don't agree with as heretics. Calling everybody you don't like a heretic trivializes heresy just like calling everybody a Nazi trivializes the horrors of the holocaust. Let's be a bit more responsible here, shall we?

Not here to criticize you, but if you can't see that, it's possible you aren't seeing a lot of things.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Bill Johnson (pastor) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnson_(pastor)


Bill Johnson (born on July 18, 1951) is a Charismatic Christian revivalist, itinerant speaker, author, and the current Senior Pastor of Bethel Church in Redding, California.Denomination‎: ‎Charismatic movement
Children‎: ‎Eric Johnson; ‎Brian Johnson‎; Leah ...

Church‎: ‎Bethel Church (Redding, California)
Nationality‎: ‎American

Bethel Church (Redding, California) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethel_Church_(Redding,_California)


Bethel Church is a non-denominational charismatic megachurch, that was established in 1954 in Redding, California. The church, which is currently being led ...Senior pastor(s)‎: ‎Bill Johnson
Denomination‎: ‎Non-denominational charismat...

Pastor(s)‎: ‎Eric Johnson, Beni Johnson, Danny ...
Previous denomination‎: ‎Assemblies of God




Sorry, dear, you missed it this time.

aww honey no I didn't...do a little more research there Louis lou a and you will see I am right

Wiki is good sometimes but they missed it here

he is basement Pentecostal as in daddy dug it first and he followed, then he joined NAR

tain't really Charismatic

but if you cannot find what all I am going on about, just say so and I will provide the source of my facts