The Law

[glf1]

In Rom 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Or in Rom 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin." Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has made me free from the law of sin and death."

So even though the law is holy, it comes with the curse of death and is ready to pass away(Heb 8:13): since the letter kills, but the Spirit giveth life(2 Cor 3:6)." This is, in fact, the main promise of the NT; where the Lord, says, in Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts and in their minds I will write them." Which makes the law of the Spirit of life more powerful that the OT law could ever be.

The letter of the law is: "Thou shall not kill." But that same commandment under the law of the Spirit of life is now; (1 Jn 3:15) Whoso hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no man that is a murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

The letter of the law is: Thou shall not commit adultery. But the law of the Spirit of life for this commandment is; (Matt 5:28) "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

These same commandments that were death to us because of the curse are being used by the Spirit to give us life by illumination the scriptures that we put into our minds and writing then upon the table of our hearts, transforming us into Jesus' image and making us to see sin as the Lord does, more and more.

So that the things that we once enjoyed become points of conviction as we grow toward spiritual maturity by reason of use of the word of righteousness, having our senses trained to discern both good and evil(Heb 5:13,14).

 

[Blik]

God is eternal and what God tells us through the OT and the NT is both truth. It is not so that God changed His mind about grace and obedience. It was always the same. God did not change His mind about the law of love. When God said do not murder, Christ made a commentary of that law telling us more about it. What Christ said in His commentary of this law did not cancel what the Father told us, it enhanced it.

If you do not read Paul with understanding you would think that he couldn't make up his mind about what God says about the law. He said the law was nailed to the cross, can't justify, is a shadow, is dead to us. Paul also said breaking the law dishonors Jesus, and we certainly do not make void the law but establish it.

All these things that Paul tells us is truth, we must study to understand it.

The bottom line is everything we are told about the law in psalm 119 is true. We are blessed by the law.

 

[OneFaith]

In Rom 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Or in Rom 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin." Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, has made me free from the law of sin and death."

So even though the law is holy, it comes with the curse of death and is ready to pass away(Heb 8:13): since the letter kills, but the Spirit giveth life(2 Cor 3:6)." This is, in fact, the main promise of the NT; where the Lord, says, in Heb 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts and in their minds I will write them." Which makes the law of the Spirit of life more powerful that the OT law could ever be.

The letter of the law is: "Thou shall not kill." But that same commandment under the law of the Spirit of life is now; (1 Jn 3:15) Whoso hateth his brother is a murderer, and ye know that no man that is a murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

The letter of the law is: Thou shall not commit adultery. But the law of the Spirit of life for this commandment is; (Matt 5:28) "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

These same commandments that were death to us because of the curse are being used by the Spirit to give us life by illumination the scriptures that we put into our minds and writing then upon the table of our hearts, transforming us into Jesus' image and making us to see sin as the Lord does, more and more.

So that the things that we once enjoyed become points of conviction as we grow toward spiritual maturity by reason of use of the word of righteousness, having our senses trained to discern both good and evil(Heb 5:13,14).

Now here's someone on the right track. We now obey God's laws spiritually. In the old testament He wrote His law on physical tablets, but in the new testament He writes His laws on our hearts (spiritual).

 

[Embankment]

God is eternal and what God tells us through the OT and the NT is both truth. It is not so that God changed His mind about grace and obedience. It was always the same. God did not change His mind about the law of love. When God said do not murder, Christ made a commentary of that law telling us more about it. What Christ said in His commentary of this law did not cancel what the Father told us, it enhanced it.

If you do not read Paul with understanding you would think that he couldn't make up his mind about what God says about the law. He said the law was nailed to the cross, can't justify, is a shadow, is dead to us. Paul also said breaking the law dishonors Jesus, and we certainly do not make void the law but establish it.

All these things that Paul tells us is truth, we must study to understand it.

The bottom line is everything we are told about the law in psalm 119 is true. We are blessed by the law.

Bottom line, the law had one purpose and that was to show that we could not purify ourselves. The law is like a mirror that shows our filth and that only through Jesus we can be made clean.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like how paul put it.

Gal 3:
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

and he gave us the purpose of the law. Which no one should question..

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

all these people who want to put us back under law do not understand not only the law itself. but the purpose it was given.

 

[MarkWilliams]

I like how paul put it.

Gal 3:
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

and he gave us the purpose of the law. Which no one should question..

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

all these people who want to put us back under law do not understand not only the law itself. but the purpose it was given.

The keeping of the law is impossible of' course, but so many boast about how well they are keeping it. They even say you have to obey the law before you can be saved, not in those words but to that effect.
They say obedience is the key to salvation, the Bible tells us that we become obedient after we are saved

 

[oldethennew]

I've not seen the boasting that you are talking about, quite the contrary, I'm feeling
that the ones whose hearts belong to Jesus are unbelievably grateful to Him and
are filled with gratitude that He has made it possible for them to grow up and
step-up the ladder into His New World -

I've yet to see one person declare that 'obedience' is what saves them -
if I have missed someone saying such a thing, then of course they should be
prayed for...

you seem to want to 'stir-up', and cause people to doubt!

I have news for you, those who Christ has called, will always display their gratitude
in many ways, and confidence is one of them...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The keeping of the law is impossible of' course, but so many boast about how well they are keeping it. They even say you have to obey the law before you can be saved, not in those words but to that effect.
They say obedience is the key to salvation, the Bible tells us that we become obedient after we are saved

obedience comes as a result of salvation

Salvation comes as a result of the cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've not seen the boasting that you are talking about, quite the contrary, I'm feeling
that the ones whose hearts belong to Jesus are unbelievably grateful to Him and
are filled with gratitude that He has made it possible for them to grow up and
step-up the ladder into His New World -

I've yet to see one person declare that 'obedience' is what saves them -
if I have missed someone saying such a thing, then of course they should be
prayed for...

you seem to want to 'stir-up', and cause people to doubt!

I have news for you, those who Christ has called, will always display their gratitude
in many ways, and confidence is one of them...

people who claim salvation must be gained or maintained by our obedience ARE teaching salvation by works.

They are stiring trying to stir up doubt in true believers by getting those believers to focus on seld and how well they obey Gods commands, and make sure you do it or else. and not the cross of Christ, And the love God gave to them and is givin gto them every day so thay can in turn share that love with others, which is TRUE obedience. Bec ause it is sacrificial, not self centered

 

[oldethennew]

ET,

I don't view such as a threat to anyone, quite the contrary, I pray that they are a catalyst
along with others who have been called to make the journey...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ET,

I don't view such as a threat to anyone, quite the contrary, I pray that they are a catalyst
along with others who have been called to make the journey...

Not sure what this means,

Salvation is a gift, Life is a journey.

People who claim it is a journey to earn salvation is the threat.. Don't you agree?

 

[oldethennew]

I was speaking of Christians ET...anything that we receive from Christ is of course a GIFT -

there are numerous people who post here with their own interpretations, but if and when
Christ calls them, feeling threatened or disturbed by their current beliefs which Christ
is 'changing' from what the world has implanted, is just a by-product of the 'old-world' -
they have HOPE now, and it will eventually lead them into all Truth as Christ sees fit...

it's really an awesome thing to be able to look back over many decades and witness
your 'then' and your 'now'...very revealing and so very comforting...

a catalyst in the sense that they will do their own 'home-work/research and begin
to learn how to listen and follow The Holy Spirit's lead, which takes some real,
continuing practice...

 

[Blik]

Bottom line, the law had one purpose and that was to show that we could not purify ourselves. The law is like a mirror that shows our filth and that only through Jesus we can be made clean.

That in the ONLY reason God gave us the law? In my bible it tell of many things the law is to us.

 

[Blik]

I like how paul put it.

Gal 3:
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

and he gave us the purpose of the law. Which no one should question..

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

all these people who want to put us back under law do not understand not only the law itself. but the purpose it was given.

All these people are not saying that they do not go to Christ for salvation, instead they go to their perfect obedience to the law. That is what the correct understanding of what God means by telling us not to be under the law for salvation.

 

[Budman]

I'll stick with what Paul said: "I myself am not under the Law." (1 Corinthians (9:20)

We live under the law of Christ, which is simply acknowledging that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. (Galatians 3:13)

 

[MarkWilliams]

I've not seen the boasting that you are talking about, quite the contrary, I'm feeling
that the ones whose hearts belong to Jesus are unbelievably grateful to Him and
are filled with gratitude that He has made it possible for them to grow up and
step-up the ladder into His New World -

I've yet to see one person declare that 'obedience' is what saves them -
if I have missed someone saying such a thing, then of course they should be
prayed for...

you seem to want to 'stir-up', and cause people to doubt!

I have news for you, those who Christ has called, will always display their gratitude
in many ways, and confidence is one of them...

Most folks here dissagree with me when I mention that salvation is a gift and we contribute a big fat zero to it. They argue that we need to repent and believe and obey. They don't accept that it's the work of god from start to finish, including giving you repentance, fait and obedience.
I've found most want claim some of the glory for themselves

 

[OstrichSmiling]

The keeping of the law is impossible of' course, but so many boast about how well they are keeping it. They even say you have to obey the law before you can be saved, not in those words but to that effect.
They say obedience is the key to salvation, the Bible tells us that we become obedient after we are saved

Do you think that is so? That we become obedient after we are saved?
What of Acts of the Apostles and chapter 2? Peter is in Jerusalem and speaking to thousands gathered. He and the 11 other Apostles are there.
Many in the crowd become convicted of their part in Messiahs death.

Acts of the Apostles Chapter 2
32 So Jesus is the One whom God raised from the dead. And we are all witnesses to this. 33 Jesus was ·lifted up to heaven and is now at [L exalted to] God’s right ·side [L hand; C a position of highest honor beside the king]. The Father has given the Holy Spirit to Jesus as he promised. So Jesus has poured out that Spirit, and this is what you now see and hear. 34 David was not the one who ·was lifted up [went up; ascended] to heaven, but he said:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit by me at my right ·side [L hand; v. 33],
35 until I ·put your enemies under your control [L make your enemies a footstool for your feet; Ps. 110:1].”’
36 “·So [Therefore], all the ·people [L house] of Israel should know this ·truly [with certainty]: God has made Jesus—the man you ·nailed to the cross [crucified]—both Lord and ·Christ [Messiah].”

37 When the people heard this, they ·felt guilty [were deeply distressed; L were cut/pierced to the heart] and asked Peter and the other apostles, “What shall we do, ·brothers [L men, brothers]?”

38 Peter said to them, “·Change your hearts and lives [Repent] and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 [L For] This promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away [C both in space and time; may refer to Gentiles and/or Jews scattered outside the land of Israel]. It is for everyone the Lord our God calls to himself [Joel 2:32].” "

Isn't Peter teaching there that obedience begins with doing what Jesus said to do in order to change a persons heart and life?
When someone obeys that teaching and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit they then are led to obey God. Because the Holy Spirit is taking over their life as the old life and self that was dead in its sin is no longer present. That repentant, baptized, Holy Spirit filled person is a new creation that is washed clean of death. Clean of sins. And now they are in relationship with the Holy Spirit and are able to do many wonderful things with the Spirit present within.

"40 Peter ·warned [testified to] them with many other ·words [arguments]. He ·begged [pleaded with; exhorted; urged] them, “Save yourselves from ·the evil of today’s people [L this corrupt/crooked/perverse generation]!” 41 Then those people who accepted what Peter said were baptized. About three thousand ·people [souls] were added to the number of believers that day. 42 They ·spent [devoted] their time learning the apostles’ teaching, ·sharing [fellowship], breaking bread [C this may refer to a meal as in v. 46, or to the Lord’s Supper; Luke 22:14–20], and praying together. "

 

[Embankment]

The keeping of the law is impossible of' course, but so many boast about how well they are keeping it. They even say you have to obey the law before you can be saved, not in those words but to that effect.
They say obedience is the key to salvation, the Bible tells us that we become obedient after we are saved

True , not one person on this earth has kept the law except Jesus . That is the very reason we need Jesus' saving grace.
When the law flows through us it kills us.

 

[glf1]

1 Jn 3:19-24 "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then we have confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
Notice the differences in the above passage between the singular and plural of the word commandment(s)...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Most folks here dissagree with me when I mention that salvation is a gift and we contribute a big fat zero to it. They argue that we need to repent and believe and obey. They don't accept that it's the work of god from start to finish, including giving you repentance, fait and obedience.
I've found most want claim some of the glory for themselves

So did GOD move your fingers to type that?