Women Pastors for women?

[susi]

Hi, I'm wondering if someone could give me some biblical info stating that women can be pastors as long as they only pastor women in a church.
My brother goes to a church where they have 2 pastors. A male one and a female one. He says its ok to have a women pastor, cause she only pastors women...
He says we all in some way are called to pastor each other anyway..
And what a better way for women to be pastored by another women who can understand her better.
Is this biblical? Where does it say women can be pastors even if its just in this way?
If there are 2 pastors I imagine they get together to discuss and decide over church matters that effect women and men of the church...
Can a woman have authority over other women? E.g a discipline matter?
Thanks

 

[susi]

By the way, I do believe women can minister other women. Women deacons who minister to other women is O.K. But one thing is a deacon and another a Pastor...

 

[Dino246]

A church with both female and male pastors is a great idea. Nowhere does Scripture explicitly permit women to be pastors, but at the same time nowhere does it explicitly permit men to be pastors either. The term "pastor" (poimen - shepherd) is presented in Ephesians 4 alongside apostle, prophet, evangelist, and teacher. No genders are mentioned.

The term "pastor" can be misleading, because in modern usage it means the leader of a local church body who does most of the preaching, teaching, and counseling. Its biblical usage of "shepherd" has been largely lost, though I suspect that "counselor" would be a good modern functional equivalent.

Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus both mention women's qualifications for elders and deacons alongside men's. Many people take the statement to Timothy, "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man" as a universal prohibition on female leaders, but the context does not support that interpretation, and the Greek word for "authority" is not in the passage at all.

I would encourage you to study both sides of the issue, and draw your own conclusions.

 

[calibob]

i'd like to hear from a Four Square person about this. Any takers?

 

[susi]

A church with both female and male pastors is a great idea. Nowhere does Scripture explicitly permit women to be pastors, but at the same time nowhere does it explicitly permit men to be pastors either. The term "pastor" (poimen - shepherd) is presented in Ephesians 4 alongside apostle, prophet, evangelist, and teacher. No genders are mentioned.

The term "pastor" can be misleading, because in modern usage it means the leader of a local church body who does most of the preaching, teaching, and counseling. Its biblical usage of "shepherd" has been largely lost, though I suspect that "counselor" would be a good modern functional equivalent.

Paul's letters to Timothy and Titus both mention women's qualifications for elders and deacons alongside men's. Many people take the statement to Timothy, "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man" as a universal prohibition on female leaders, but the context does not support that interpretation, and the Greek word for "authority" is not in the passage at all.

I would encourage you to study both sides of the issue, and draw your own conclusions.

Titus 1:5-9 English Standard Version (ESV)Qualifications for Elders

5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is above reproach, the HUSBAND of one wife,[a] and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. 7 For an overseer,[c] as God's steward, must be above reproach. HE must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, 8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. 9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound[d]doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Footnotes:Titus 1:6 Or a man of one woman

A man...

 

[susi]

Or let me put the question differently.
If I was in a church with a women elder do I have to submit to her? Does half of the congregation(women) have to submit to her? If that was the case wouldn't there have been women pastors in the NT? Because with this logic a child should be a pastor of the children...a teenager pastor for teenagers...etc. If the requirements

 

[susi]

Are for men why would a woman be a pastor? If God ordained it this way, who are we too change it?
As a woman, I need to submit to a man pastor. Its for a reason if God put it that way even if we don't understand it all, right? I suppose I feel the need t see that other ppl see it too...s

 

[trofimus]

Are for men why would a woman be a pastor? If God ordained it this way, who are we too change it?
As a woman, I need to submit to a man pastor. Its for a reason if God put it that way even if we don't understand it all, right? I suppose I feel the need t see that other ppl see it too...s

What exactly do you mean by submission to a pastor, regardless if its male of female?

I cannot recall any Bible verse saying "be submitted to your pastors".

 

[susi]

What exactly do you mean by submission to a pastor, regardless if its male of female?

I cannot recall any Bible verse saying "be submitted to your pastors".

Its quite clear..

Hebrews 13:17 New International Version (NIV)

17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

 

[trofimus]

Its quite clear..

Hebrews 13:17 New International Version (NIV)

17 Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

OK, here is the verse.

But what do you mean this submission means in your real life?

 

[susi]

OK, here is the verse.

But what do you mean this submission means in your real life?

That they have authority over you in certain ways. Or don't pastors have authority in a church?
They decide things, permit or not permit things....
if I want to do a concert in the local church who do I ask for permission?
If I have a marriage problem who do I ask for advice and guidance? If I want to remarry who accepts to marry me in the church?
Who ultimately approves the agendas of all the activities at church?
Who teaches the doctrine a church follows?
I know not all churches follow the same procedures but ultimately the authority is on the elders/pastors/leaders.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hi, I'm wondering if someone could give me some biblical info stating that women can be pastors as long as they only pastor women in a church.

Women can teach women outside the church setting (in their homes), but they cannot be pastors under any circumstance.

 

[trofimus]

That they have authority over you in certain ways. Or don't pastors have authority in a church?
They decide things, permit or not permit things....
if I want to do a concert in the local church who do I ask for permission?
If I have a marriage problem who do I ask for advice and guidance? If I want to remarry who accepts to marry me in the church?
Who ultimately approves the agendas of all the activities at church?
Who teaches the doctrine a church follows?
I know not all churches follow the same procedures but ultimately the authority is on the elders/pastors/leaders.

So, their authority is limited to church only, right? They, for example, cannot tell you who to marry or what job to do etc.

And in the church, is their authority about teaching (in the sense that you must accept every error they say) or just about something else?

 

[whatev]

Or let me put the question differently.
If I was in a church with a women elder do I have to submit to her? Does half of the congregation(women) have to submit to her? If that was the case wouldn't there have been women pastors in the NT? Because with this logic a child should be a pastor of the children...a teenager pastor for teenagers...etc. If the requirements

There is submit to the Lord. There is submit to your husband. There is submit to your pastor and elders. The first one isn't optional. The second one is given, assuming you trust him enough to marry him. The third one is a decision we all make. If you won't submit to an elder in your church, why not?

Because you don't trust him/her? In which case, why are you in that church? Find a church where you can submit.

I have submitted to older women in the church out of love and trust. And the love and trust comes from getting to know they are after the Lord's way in their lives. I have never submitted to a woman simply because she is older. Older isn't smarter, or godlier, or loving better. It's older. I know. I'm older.

Show me a woman, or a man, with good fruit and I will seek that person to help me be fruitier. (In the Christian sense of that word, not the common sense.) I will listen.

I wouldn't join a church that divides the men from the women like that though. It's always a feeling of separation. Men don't get women and women don't get men. I do believe there are things we won't ever get about each other, but don't divide us so we can't learn. And don't divide us because you think special care has to be given based on gender. The second someone puts me on a pedestal because they think I'm fragile is the second I'm jumping off that pedestal to prove I'm not that fragile. And then there is always the chance I break, but I'd rather break around others who are broken then be left where I don't belong.

 

[susi]

So, their authority is limited to church only, right? They, for example, cannot tell you who to marry or what job to do etc.

And in the church, is their authority about teaching (in the sense that you must accept every error they say) or just about something else?

No, not outside the church. Of course they can't do that. Although they can give you advice.
But this is supposing they have all the requirements listed in the bible to be pastors.
No. Obviously you don't follow ANY error they may preach. We must obey God before men. But that's not the issue I'm posting about..

 

[whatev]

Are for men why would a woman be a pastor? If God ordained it this way, who are we too change it?
As a woman, I need to submit to a man pastor. Its for a reason if God put it that way even if we don't understand it all, right? I suppose I feel the need t see that other ppl see it too...s

God did make men pastors. Does that mean all men are pastors? Does that mean all pastors are men of God? Does that mean we must assume men should lead us? I'm getting chills thinking of all the men I've known in my life that weren't men of God, weren't ordained by God, and would have used me up if I had submitted to them.

God doesn't ordain half as much as people think they've been ordained.

 

[whatev]

No, not outside the church. Of course they can't do that. Although they can give you advice.
But this is supposing they have all the requirements listed in the bible to be pastors.
No. Obviously you don't follow ANY error they may preach. We must obey God before men. But that's not the issue I'm posting about..

So you do understand we don't submit at all cost. We submit through trust and reason. Then, what's the issue?

 

[susi]

There is submit to the Lord. There is submit to your husband. There is submit to your pastor and elders. The first one isn't optional. The second one is given, assuming you trust him enough to marry him. The third one is a decision we all make. If you won't submit to an elder in your church, why not?

Because you don't trust him/her? In which case, why are you in that church? Find a church where you can submit.

I have submitted to older women in the church out of love and trust. And the love and trust comes from getting to know they are after the Lord's way in their lives. I have never submitted to a woman simply because she is older. Older isn't smarter, or godlier, or loving better. It's older. I know. I'm older.

Show me a woman, or a man, with good fruit and I will seek that person to help me be fruitier. (In the Christian sense of that word, not the common sense.) I will listen.

I wouldn't join a church that divides the men from the women like that though. It's always a feeling of separation. Men don't get women and women don't get men. I do believe there are things we won't ever get about each other, but don't divide us so we can't learn. And don't divide us because you think special care has to be given based on gender. The second someone puts me on a pedestal because they think I'm fragile is the second I'm jumping off that pedestal to prove I'm not that fragile. And then there is always the chance I break, but I'd rather break around others who are broken then be left where I don't belong.

Totally agree...
Cause one thing is the label they are given and another is what they really are. But the fact that they officially give you a label"pastor" does give you power.
You don't have to submit to a false one or an unbi

God did make men pastors. Does that mean all men are pastors? Does that mean all pastors are men of God? Does that mean we must assume men should lead us? I'm getting chills thinking of all the men I've known in my life that weren't men of God, weren't ordained by God, and would have used me up if I had submitted to them.

God doesn't ordain half as much as people think they've been ordained.

NO to your 1st and 2nd question.
To your 3rd question I would say God chose men to lead churches, and in marriage but not all men are called to do it. Not all men have the requirements to be pastors. Not all men should get married. Not all men are qualified. But does that mean women should take their place e.g pastors? No. Don't see it in the bible.

 

[susi]

So you do understand we don't submit at all cost. We submit through trust and reason. Then, what's the issue?

The issue is I don't see how a woman can be named a Pastor of a church even though she only pastors/sheperds women. Its not a reason that permits her to be so..

 

[trofimus]

No, not outside the church. Of course they can't do that. Although they can give you advice.
But this is supposing they have all the requirements listed in the bible to be pastors.
No. Obviously you don't follow ANY error they may preach. We must obey God before men. But that's not the issue I'm posting about..

I know its not the issue of your OP, but still, I find it very hard for many of us to define what authority do pastors/teachers/prophets have in our today's churches.

So far, it seems that we are the ones judging their deeds, prophecies and teachings. So.. where is the submission to them, in what...?

It seems to me that its limited just to organizational problems, use of church money and similar.