Hebrews 6:4-6

[LW97]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4–6 is among the most-often-misunderstood passages in the entire New Testament. Without a clear grasp of context, these verses seem to directly counter the doctrine of eternal security. References in verses 5 and 6 to falling away, and a lack of restoration, are easily misconstrued to imply a lack of salvation. And yet, the Bible is not meant to be read like a stack of fortune cookies or horoscopes. Each word, every verse, and every phrase needs to be considered as part of a whole. Looking at these words, from that perspective, greatly changes how they are interpreted. First, we need to maintain the entire context of the Bible. According to Scripture, our salvation is eternally secure (John 10:28–30). Just as salvation is not earned by works (Romans 3:20; 11:6), it cannot be lost by works (Colossians 2:15). So once a person is legitimately saved, they are saved forever. Those who "have tasted the heavenly gift" (Ephesians 2:8) and who "share in the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13–14; Galatians 3:2) cannot be any other than true believers. Rather than a loss of salvation, verses 4 through 6 describe the possible consequences of immature, stunted faith. Such a condition leaves us vulnerable to the same doubt-driven disobedience which Israel experienced in the wilderness (Numbers 13—14). This was discussed in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 (Hebrews 3:12–19; 4:11). Christians who lose their trust in God, and doubt fundamental doctrines, are implicitly siding with a view that Christ should have been crucified, and that what He said was not true (Hebrews 6:6). Once a person reaches that state, there is nothing to be done—by any man—in order to bring them back to a living, active faith. This is similar to the dire state described in places such as Proverbs 29:1 and 1 John 5:16–17. God, however, is neither a man, nor is He limited as men are (Luke 18:27). God's method of reaching such a Christian is given symbolically later in this chapter (Hebrews 6:7–8). Fields which fail to produce are treated with fire—often a symbol of God's judgment (Hebrews 10:26–27). The field is not destroyed, but it is treated harshly. This, again, is the same pattern seen in Exodus when Israel was forced to wander for forty years. Doubt led to disobedience, leading to judgment, producing change, and eventually resulting in obedience and restoration.

Another interpretation was that those people really committed the unpadorable sin, see Mark 3:22-30. If they were made partakes of the Holy Spirit, that would mean they got a chance to experience the miracles of Christ. The name of the Epistle isn't pointless, it is written to the Nation of Israel. The Jews saw the miracles of Christ, but they thought he had an unclean spirit. So they were once enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted of the age to come and then fell away. Consider this...

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Luke 16:30-31)

Jesus is very clear that those people will not repent because they have hardened their heart too much against the truth and keep disregarding the truth, so it would be pointless for Jesus to die for them, see the second half of Hebrews 6:6: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We can see this here:

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (John 19:11)

No, don't worry, the unpadorable sin cannot be committed today, Christ paid for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). But still it can apply to people to day in some ways, that would be people who think they are saved but are not. They might have religion, but the reason why they think they are saved is because they prayed a prayer, feel saved, are being a good person etc. They haven't been regenerated, they are not a new creature. We see this here again...

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked (Revelation 3:17)

Those people think they have everything, but they do not know Jesus. They try to get it right with God their own way, they profess to love Jesus, but their heart is far away from him.

God bless you

 

[garee]

Those who "have tasted the heavenly gift" (Ephesians 2:8) and who "share in the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13–14; Galatians 3:2) cannot be any other than true believers.

.
I would offer. Two distinct groups .

That latter recognized by better things accompany salvation the actual redemption of ones soul (verse 9). While the prior group would be like when Christ fed the five thousand. They tasted of the heavenly gift and heard the gospel, the power the good news of the world to come . But did not eat of it as the kind of food the disciples knew not of which is doing the will of another, (the believers free will) not subject to the bondage of the will of the god of this world But of our Father in heaven as the meat of the word .

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 4:33-34

Many were part of the miracles and like Judas were set aside as a example of unbelief (no faith) as one who falls backward a indication one is under the judgment of God. John4:33-35

The other group separate from those in verse 9

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6: 4-6

They crucify to themselves.(self righteous) And not Christ crucifies to them. Every time they sin putting him to open shame as if one demonstration of the finished work of the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world was not enough to satisfy the law of God.

like the man in Mathew 7 who did do the wonderful works required .Thinking God is served by human hands .Christ called him a worker of inequity as one who would steal the glory of God .

 

[LW97]

.
I would offer. Two distinct groups .

That latter recognized by better things accompany salvation the actual redemption of ones soul (verse 9). While the prior group would be like when Christ fed the five thousand. They tasted of the heavenly gift and heard the gospel, the power the good news of the world to come . But did not eat of it as the kind of food the disciples knew not of which is doing the will of another, (the believers free will) not subject to the bondage of the will of the god of this world But of our Father in heaven as the meat of the word .

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 4:33-34

Many were part of the miracles and like Judas were set aside as a example of unbelief (no faith) as one who falls backward a indication one is under the judgment of God. John4:33-35

The other group separate from those in verse 9

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6: 4-6

They crucify to themselves.(self righteous) And not Christ crucifies to them. Every time they sin putting him to open shame as if one demonstration of the finished work of the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world was not enough to satisfy the law of God.

like the man in Mathew 7 who did do the wonderful works required .Thinking God is served by human hands .Christ called him a worker of inequity as one who would steal the glory of God .

Good insight. God bless you brother.

 

[garee]

The passages before verse 4-6 sets up the understanding beginning with therefore, with therefore represented by the milk of the word which teaches us God is gracious as in John 4:33-34.( the hidden Manna) as the kind of food of doing the will of our father in heaven. Again which the disciples knew not of, previously doing their own will and offering that towards God .(the Christian's free will )

Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 4:33-34

They did not eat as the meat of the will of another but were relying on again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God. Not coming from God.

Not distinguishing the living work working in them, coming from the faith of God as a labor of His love .Offering their new faith towards Him as the work required .Like the man in Mathew 7 who Christ did not say he did not perform those wonderful works but accredited the works to his own self( a worker of iniquity) glorifying his own flesh .Making the work of the Holy Spirit without effect as a tradition of men

For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.Hebrews 5:13-14

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.And this will we do, if God permit. Hebrews 6:1-3

 

[John146]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4–6 is among the most-often-misunderstood passages in the entire New Testament. Without a clear grasp of context, these verses seem to directly counter the doctrine of eternal security. References in verses 5 and 6 to falling away, and a lack of restoration, are easily misconstrued to imply a lack of salvation. And yet, the Bible is not meant to be read like a stack of fortune cookies or horoscopes. Each word, every verse, and every phrase needs to be considered as part of a whole. Looking at these words, from that perspective, greatly changes how they are interpreted. First, we need to maintain the entire context of the Bible. According to Scripture, our salvation is eternally secure (John 10:28–30). Just as salvation is not earned by works (Romans 3:20; 11:6), it cannot be lost by works (Colossians 2:15). So once a person is legitimately saved, they are saved forever. Those who "have tasted the heavenly gift" (Ephesians 2:8) and who "share in the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13–14; Galatians 3:2) cannot be any other than true believers. Rather than a loss of salvation, verses 4 through 6 describe the possible consequences of immature, stunted faith. Such a condition leaves us vulnerable to the same doubt-driven disobedience which Israel experienced in the wilderness (Numbers 13—14). This was discussed in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 (Hebrews 3:12–19; 4:11). Christians who lose their trust in God, and doubt fundamental doctrines, are implicitly siding with a view that Christ should have been crucified, and that what He said was not true (Hebrews 6:6). Once a person reaches that state, there is nothing to be done—by any man—in order to bring them back to a living, active faith. This is similar to the dire state described in places such as Proverbs 29:1 and 1 John 5:16–17. God, however, is neither a man, nor is He limited as men are (Luke 18:27). God's method of reaching such a Christian is given symbolically later in this chapter (Hebrews 6:7–8). Fields which fail to produce are treated with fire—often a symbol of God's judgment (Hebrews 10:26–27). The field is not destroyed, but it is treated harshly. This, again, is the same pattern seen in Exodus when Israel was forced to wander for forty years. Doubt led to disobedience, leading to judgment, producing change, and eventually resulting in obedience and restoration.

Another interpretation was that those people really committed the unpadorable sin, see Mark 3:22-30. If they were made partakes of the Holy Spirit, that would mean they got a chance to experience the miracles of Christ. The name of the Epistle isn't pointless, it is written to the Nation of Israel. The Jews saw the miracles of Christ, but they thought he had an unclean spirit. So they were once enlightened, have tasted the heavenly gift, were made partakers of the Holy Ghost and have tasted of the age to come and then fell away. Consider this...

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. (Luke 16:30-31)

Jesus is very clear that those people will not repent because they have hardened their heart too much against the truth and keep disregarding the truth, so it would be pointless for Jesus to die for them, see the second half of Hebrews 6:6: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We can see this here:

Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (John 19:11)

No, don't worry, the unpadorable sin cannot be committed today, Christ paid for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). But still it can apply to people to day in some ways, that would be people who think they are saved but are not. They might have religion, but the reason why they think they are saved is because they prayed a prayer, feel saved, are being a good person etc. They haven't been regenerated, they are not a new creature. We see this here again...

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked (Revelation 3:17)

Those people think they have everything, but they do not know Jesus. They try to get it right with God their own way, they profess to love Jesus, but their heart is far away from him.

God bless you

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The last days point to the 2nd advent of Christ. Hebrews is a letter directed to the nation of Israel as a whole pointing them to Jesus Christ, who they missed out on at His first coming. Hebrews amends the law with what Christ has done. The only difference is the time period, the great tribulation. During the great tribulation, the Jewish saint can lose that which he once had by taking the mark of the beast to survive, thus fore fitting his salvation. If this time period, aka Jacob's trouble, were not shortened, no flesh would be saved. But because God so loves the nation of Israel, He has shortened this period for them to persevere to the end.

 

[LW97]

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The last days point to the 2nd advent of Christ. Hebrews is a letter directed to the nation of Israel as a whole pointing them to Jesus Christ, who they missed out on at His first coming. Hebrews amends the law with what Christ has done. The only difference is the time period, the great tribulation. During the great tribulation, the Jewish saint can lose that which he once had by taking the mark of the beast to survive, thus fore fitting his salvation. If this time period, aka Jacob's trouble, were not shortened, no flesh would be saved. But because God so loves the nation of Israel, He has shortened this period for them to persevere to the end.

thanks

 

[Chester]

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:4–6 is among the most-often-misunderstood passages in the entire New Testament. Without a clear grasp of context, these verses seem to directly counter the doctrine of eternal security. References in verses 5 and 6 to falling away, and a lack of restoration, are easily misconstrued to imply a lack of salvation. And yet, the Bible is not meant to be read like a stack of fortune cookies or horoscopes. Each word, every verse, and every phrase needs to be considered as part of a whole. Looking at these words, from that perspective, greatly changes how they are interpreted. First, we need to maintain the entire context of the Bible. According to Scripture, our salvation is eternally secure (John 10:28–30). Just as salvation is not earned by works (Romans 3:20; 11:6), it cannot be lost by works (Colossians 2:15). So once a person is legitimately saved, they are saved forever. Those who "have tasted the heavenly gift" (Ephesians 2:8) and who "share in the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 1:13–14; Galatians 3:2) cannot be any other than true believers. Rather than a loss of salvation, verses 4 through 6 describe the possible consequences of immature, stunted faith. Such a condition leaves us vulnerable to the same doubt-driven disobedience which Israel experienced in the wilderness (Numbers 13—14). This was discussed in Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 (Hebrews 3:12–19; 4:11). Christians who lose their trust in God, and doubt fundamental doctrines, are implicitly siding with a view that Christ should have been crucified, and that what He said was not true (Hebrews 6:6). Once a person reaches that state, there is nothing to be done—by any man—in order to bring them back to a living, active faith. This is similar to the dire state described in places such as Proverbs 29:1 and 1 John 5:16–17. God, however, is neither a man, nor is He limited as men are (Luke 18:27). God's method of reaching such a Christian is given symbolically later in this chapter (Hebrews 6:7–8). Fields which fail to produce are treated with fire—often a symbol of God's judgment (Hebrews 10:26–27). The field is not destroyed, but it is treated harshly. This, again, is the same pattern seen in Exodus when Israel was forced to wander for forty years. Doubt led to disobedience, leading to judgment, producing change, and eventually resulting in obedience and restoration.

I agree that context is very important to interpreting any text.

But the problem here is that you begin with an assumption: In your words: "According to Scripture, our salvation is eternally secure (John 10:28–30)". I assume you mean that once/if a person is truly saved, that they can never be lost. Now if your assumption is correct, then of course you should not interpret any Scripture opposite of that assumption.

Thus you wind up interpreting Hebrews 6:4-6 very differently than the clear, obvious meaning of the text. You let your assumption about the overall meaning of Scripture take precedence over the clear obvious meaning of the text.

This happens anytime we let a list of doctrines become our starting point, rather than the actual text that God gave!

 

[garee]

I agree that context is very important to interpreting any text.

But the problem here is that you begin with an assumption: In your words: "According to Scripture, our salvation is eternally secure (John 10:28–30)". I assume you mean that once/if a person is truly saved, that they can never be lost. Now if your assumption is correct, then of course you should not interpret any Scripture opposite of that assumption.

Thus you wind up interpreting Hebrews 6:4-6 very differently than the clear, obvious meaning of the text. You let your assumption about the overall meaning of Scripture take precedence over the clear obvious meaning of the text.

This happens anytime we let a list of doctrines become our starting point, rather than the actual text that God gave!

Yes, it begins with therefore pointing back to Hebrew 5:11-14( it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.) They had become comfortly numb because of the work they did as the foundation of dead works.

The kind that God with spew out of his mouth. They like the example of the man in Mathew 7( worker of iniquity ) were looking to justify their own self (self righteousness ) Not depending on the faith of Christ, the hearing of God not seen. They were trusting in the milk of the word which teaches us God is gracious but not doing the meat of his words as informed in Philipiapians 2; .It is Gods Spirit working in us , as Emanuel, God with us, to both will and do His good pleasure

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Hebrew 5:11-14

 

[LW97]

Yes, it begins with therefore pointing back to Hebrew 5:11-14( it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.) They had become comfortly numb because of the work they did as the foundation of dead works.

The kind that God with spew out of his mouth. They like the example of the man in Mathew 7( worker of iniquity ) were looking to justify their own self (self righteousness ) Not depending on the faith of Christ, the hearing of God not seen. They were trusting in the milk of the word which teaches us God is gracious but not doing the meat of his words as informed in Philipiapians 2; .It is Gods Spirit working in us , as Emanuel, God with us, to both will and do His good pleasure

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Hebrew 5:11-14

amen

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Yes, it begins with therefore pointing back to Hebrew 5:11-14( it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.) They had become comfortly numb because of the work they did as the foundation of dead works.

The kind that God with spew out of his mouth. They like the example of the man in Mathew 7( worker of iniquity ) were looking to justify their own self (self righteousness ) Not depending on the faith of Christ, the hearing of God not seen. They were trusting in the milk of the word which teaches us God is gracious but not doing the meat of his words as informed in Philipiapians 2; .It is Gods Spirit working in us , as Emanuel, God with us, to both will and do His good pleasure

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand. In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Hebrew 5:11-14

You are the one who doesn't understand. Do you see the sub heading in the NIV over Heb 5:11, can you post it for me here what it says?

 

[garee]

You are the one who doesn't understand. Do you see the sub heading in the NIV over Heb 5:11, can you post it for me here what it says?

Not sure what you are saying can you list it?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Not sure what you are saying can you list it?

It is the italicised sectional heading.

 

[posthuman]

i hope i'm not off-topic . .

seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

we read about a sacrifice being made more than one time here in Hebrews, too:

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. ​

(Hebrews 10:1-4)​

​

and then news from a place where there is no need for any more than one offering:

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, ​

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord,
I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.​

Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.​

(Hebrews 10:16-18)
​

news, excellent news

 

[garee]

It is the italicised sectional heading.

And what does that mean other than what some called it that? Headings are not inspired. like for instance; the parable of two sons , I would call that the parable of the waiting father .

The heading does not change the context if that's what you mean.

 

[jameen]

Doctrine of Eternal Security?

Of course you are eternal secured as long as you do this:

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

but remember you must also live what you learned in your memory.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. (NKJV)

Christians know where will the deceivers go on Judgment Day right?

because you can be like Pharisees and Scribes who were experts of the Jewish Scriptures and yet live in sin.

 

[LW97]

Doctrine of Eternal Security?

Of course you are eternal secured as long as you do this:

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

but remember you must also live what you learned in your memory.

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. (NKJV)

Christians know where will the deceivers go on Judgment Day right?

because you can be like Pharisees and Scribes who were experts of the Jewish Scriptures and yet live in sin.

If you don't keep in memory what you preached, you have believed in vain in never received the Holy Spirit.

So, I guess a Christian who develops Alzeimer's loses their salvation? Goodness, it'd be a real shame for a saved Christian to develop memory loss at the end of their life and forget 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, and go to hell as a result. I guess memory-loss is the new unforgivable sin? And how does 1 Corinthians 15:34 refute OSAS? That was an incredibly weak argument. OF COURSE Paul will warn us to sin not, that's what any sane individual would say. Just because I (or someone else) believes they're secure in Christ doesn't mean they suddenly think sin is great, and they just want to do that all day long. In fact, being eternally secure provides a STONGER motive for avoiding sin and doing right. Denying the security of the believer leads one to avoid wrong purely for the motive of not wanting to be punished, or sent to hell. Anyone with that mindset is more focused on avoiding sin and doing right out of fear of punishment, and losing favor with God. Believing in OSAS gives us the motive to avoid wrong and do right out of love for God, and thus, the focus is more on serving Him out of gratitude for His grace, and not just trying to save our own hide from God's wrath. Repentance is built into genuine faith; Paul doesn't use that word when telling the gospel because it is implied that one who trusts Christ to save them has turned from trusting themselves, some false god or their own works. You could say that one who was not repentant "believed in vain," as Paul warned about.

 

[Chester]

If you don't keep in memory what you preached, you have believed in vain in never received the Holy Spirit.

So, I guess a Christian who develops Alzeimer's loses their salvation? Goodness, it'd be a real shame for a saved Christian to develop memory loss at the end of their life and forget 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, and go to hell as a result. I guess memory-loss is the new unforgivable sin? And how does 1 Corinthians 15:34 refute OSAS? That was an incredibly weak argument. OF COURSE Paul will warn us to sin not, that's what any sane individual would say. Just because I (or someone else) believes they're secure in Christ doesn't mean they suddenly think sin is great, and they just want to do that all day long. In fact, being eternally secure provides a STONGER motive for avoiding sin and doing right. Denying the security of the believer leads one to avoid wrong purely for the motive of not wanting to be punished, or sent to hell. Anyone with that mindset is more focused on avoiding sin and doing right out of fear of punishment, and losing favor with God. Believing in OSAS gives us the motive to avoid wrong and do right out of love for God, and thus, the focus is more on serving Him out of gratitude for His grace, and not just trying to save our own hide from God's wrath. Repentance is built into genuine faith; Paul doesn't use that word when telling the gospel because it is implied that one who trusts Christ to save them has turned from trusting themselves, some false god or their own works. You could say that one who was not repentant "believed in vain," as Paul warned about.

Here again is the same thing I pointed out in post # 7. (See what I put in bold print above). You seem to be beginning with a belief in OSAS as a doctrine rather than beginning with looking at Scripture.

You should start by looking for verses that teach OSAS clearly, rather than starting with the premise that OSAS is true then seeing if any verses refute it.

The rest of your paragraph above is similar: simply your own reasoning to try to validate OSAS.

 

[LW97]

Here again is the same thing I pointed out in post # 7. (See what I put in bold print above). You seem to be beginning with a belief in OSAS as a doctrine rather than beginning with looking at Scripture.

You should start by looking for verses that teach OSAS clearly, rather than starting with the premise that OSAS is true then seeing if any verses refute it.

The rest of your paragraph above is similar: simply your own reasoning to try to validate OSAS.

You are right brother. No, I do not believe all OSAS rejecters are lost.

I have verses:

And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:23-25

 

[garee]

You are right brother. No, I do not believe all OSAS rejecters are lost.

I have verses:

And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:23-25

How does that tie in, in respect to those who crucify Christ over and over? Rather than OSAS. Are you assuming there are not two groups . Those who went out from us because they were not part of OSAS and those who remained as the better things that accompany salvation ?

 

[LW97]

How does that tie in, in respect to those who crucify Christ over and over? Rather than OSAS. Are you assuming there are not two groups . Those who went out from us because they were not part of OSAS and those who remained as the better things that accompany salvation ?

It does not talk about evangelical Christians, rather about people who call themselves Christians but reject the Bible as final authority, such as the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses etc.