Speaking in tongues
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That'll most likely be the day after he dies... 
Hopefully someday.
Hopefully someday.
Nowhere in the bible do we see tongues that are unfruitful. Only in Corinth where the believers were acting in rebellion to the word of God do we find the warning that tongues without knowledge are unfruitful. It never occurred to those in Acts that people would speak in tongues with Spiritual benefit.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Seems kinda obvious to me...
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Seems kinda obvious to me...
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If it were not destructive it would be much less concerning. You have not even begun to give the scriptures their due in this matter. You have clouded your judgment with a gift that is misused.
What are you going to do with 1 Cor 14:14?
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Can you see from the text that Paul declares that if he prays in an unknown it is his spirit that prays not the Holy Spirit and that his understanding is unfruitful? Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in an unknown tongue and having your understanding be unfruitful.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What are you going to do with 1 Cor 14:14?
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
Can you see from the text that Paul declares that if he prays in an unknown it is his spirit that prays not the Holy Spirit and that his understanding is unfruitful? Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in an unknown tongue and having your understanding be unfruitful.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Strawman. Speaking in tongues is not destructive.
More baseless accusations, something you excell at.
Already explained, multiple times.
Praying in the spirit is praying by means of the gift of the Holy Spirit. The context is speaking in tongues. cp 1 Cor 12:3, where it is "speaking by the spirit of God." 1 Cor 14:2 plainly states that when a person speaks in tongues, "no man understands", which is why when tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.
More baseless accusations, something you excell at.
Already explained, multiple times.
Praying in the spirit is praying by means of the gift of the Holy Spirit. The context is speaking in tongues. cp 1 Cor 12:3, where it is "speaking by the spirit of God." 1 Cor 14:2 plainly states that when a person speaks in tongues, "no man understands", which is why when tongues are spoken in public, they must be interpreted.
The law of tongues is not a philosophical theory of man. In respect the foundation of the law Isaiah 28 it must be used to search out the meaning. Change it into another foundation (proof a person is being filled by the Holy Spirit) usurp the authorship (plagiarism blasphemy)
If we reject the law in respect to the oral traditions of men. His law of faith is simply made without effect. No man can serve two teaching masters. Search the scriptures in order to seek the approval of the one author, who wrote it .Danger in seeking the approval men as that seen .
Mark 7:9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
The cure...
1 Thessalonians 2:13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Stammering lips are the lips of prophecy as in all things written in the law and the prophets ,God speaking the gentiles men and woman alike... the time of reformation had come . Men and woman as prophets bring the word of God and no longer in Hebrews tongue alone. God mocked those who mocked the written word of God making it... the oral tradition of men an adversary as commandment of men, the sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy (God's word)
For with stammering lips and another tongue ) ( other languages other than Hebrew alone) will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:isaiah 28:11-15
The same law re-intergrated in 1 Corhtians 14 establishing the law ; as a sign to cofirm men will not hear prophecy but rather seek after the signs seen, of men, as the approval thereof .
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14;
Note..... above..prophesying .(declaring the written will of God)is for unbeleivers, no faith
If we reject the law in respect to the oral traditions of men. His law of faith is simply made without effect. No man can serve two teaching masters. Search the scriptures in order to seek the approval of the one author, who wrote it .Danger in seeking the approval men as that seen .
Mark 7:9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
The cure...
1 Thessalonians 2:13For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
Stammering lips are the lips of prophecy as in all things written in the law and the prophets ,God speaking the gentiles men and woman alike... the time of reformation had come . Men and woman as prophets bring the word of God and no longer in Hebrews tongue alone. God mocked those who mocked the written word of God making it... the oral tradition of men an adversary as commandment of men, the sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy (God's word)
For with stammering lips and another tongue ) ( other languages other than Hebrew alone) will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:isaiah 28:11-15
The same law re-intergrated in 1 Corhtians 14 establishing the law ; as a sign to cofirm men will not hear prophecy but rather seek after the signs seen, of men, as the approval thereof .
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14;
Note..... above..prophesying .(declaring the written will of God)is for unbeleivers, no faith
Your reasoning is circular.
You do not understand and you are perfectly comfortable with that conclusion. You claim authority from the scriptures that you cannot demonstrate with any clarity.
Can you show where the tongues in Acts are consistent with what you see to be the tongues in Corinthians?
Again you take a vague reference to praying in tongues which is cast in a negative light and convert it to a command for all believers to obey without question. Yet it is not a command but a warning. Just as the sign of tongues appears throughout the bible.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You do not understand and you are perfectly comfortable with that conclusion. You claim authority from the scriptures that you cannot demonstrate with any clarity.
Can you show where the tongues in Acts are consistent with what you see to be the tongues in Corinthians?
Again you take a vague reference to praying in tongues which is cast in a negative light and convert it to a command for all believers to obey without question. Yet it is not a command but a warning. Just as the sign of tongues appears throughout the bible.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Yes, anyone can learn a language . . . unfortunately, tongues in the context of its usages is NOT a learned language. Also in the context of the usage of "tongues", it is unique to Christianity because it is given by the Spirit via the gift of holy spirit - ONLY given to those who believe in Jesus Christ, e.g. Christians.
Yes, anyone can learn a language and anyone can learn how to speak in tongues. The two are mutually exclusive. There is no difference in how a Christian in America and a Shaman in Siberia produce glossolalia; the understanding of what it is and how it is used in everyday life is very different, but how it is produced and the sources drawn on for its production are exactly the same. Christians (incorrectly) refer to the phenomenon as “tongues” which allows for (an incorrect) ‘tie back’ to the Biblical narratives in order to support the modern phenomenon; i.e. the modern phenomenon is ‘read into’ the Biblical narratives.
Well, let me put it this way . . . God said that every believer has been given the gift of holy spirit and it is one of the manifestations of the Spirit that each believer can manifest. So, if God says that it is a language, that it edifies the believer when done alone and edifies the church when interpreted - who am I to argue with God?
Except that God here, with respect to “tongues” in the Bible (which, of course, includes ‘tongues’ as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit) is referring to real, rational language(s); not modern glossolalia.
Nope, you don't exactly "get where I am coming from". A "heavenly language"? Tongues are a known language SOMEWHERE in the world or a language which is considered a "dead language" - one that is no longer used.
General communication between two individuals . . . tongues is never used for the purpose of general communication.
"modern tongues as being completely self-created" . . . nope.
Tongues as referenced in the Bible are known languages; the native language of the speaker(s) – what Christians are producing today (actually anyone who produces glossolalia) is not language at all, let alone a language spoken (dead or living) somewhere on planet earth.
It seems rather odd that every individual ‘tongues speaker’ has their own unique distinct ‘language’ whose sole purpose is to speak to God or to get some sort of prophetic message from Him (typically to be interpreted by a third party). I should think that one’s own native language would be more than sufficient, and is something actually understood by the speaker.
See my previous posts – I have to respectfully disagree. If they were not self-created and were a language spoken somewhere on planet earth (either living or dead), within a few minutes of speaking, they would be recognized as such by Linguists. That has not happened to date despite many hundreds, indeed if not thousands, of examples analyzed.
God gives the language . . . . God knows the nuances of EVERY language - it is not up to the individual to know the nuances only that the individual speaks what God gives him to speak.
Yes, God knows the nuance of every language; every rational language. Again, what is produced today and called “tongues” is not language. When referring to real, rational language (as ‘tongues’ are in the Bible) God in the form of the Holy Spirit may inspire one to speak and even inspire a person on what to say, but what’s happening today is not the same thing; what’s coming out is entirely self-created. No matter how you slice and dice it, it is non-cognitive non-language utterance.
Yes, anyone can learn a language and anyone can learn how to speak in tongues. The two are mutually exclusive. There is no difference in how a Christian in America and a Shaman in Siberia produce glossolalia; the understanding of what it is and how it is used in everyday life is very different, but how it is produced and the sources drawn on for its production are exactly the same. Christians (incorrectly) refer to the phenomenon as “tongues” which allows for (an incorrect) ‘tie back’ to the Biblical narratives in order to support the modern phenomenon; i.e. the modern phenomenon is ‘read into’ the Biblical narratives.
Well, let me put it this way . . . God said that every believer has been given the gift of holy spirit and it is one of the manifestations of the Spirit that each believer can manifest. So, if God says that it is a language, that it edifies the believer when done alone and edifies the church when interpreted - who am I to argue with God?
Except that God here, with respect to “tongues” in the Bible (which, of course, includes ‘tongues’ as a manifestation of the Holy Spirit) is referring to real, rational language(s); not modern glossolalia.
Nope, you don't exactly "get where I am coming from". A "heavenly language"? Tongues are a known language SOMEWHERE in the world or a language which is considered a "dead language" - one that is no longer used.
General communication between two individuals . . . tongues is never used for the purpose of general communication.
"modern tongues as being completely self-created" . . . nope.
Tongues as referenced in the Bible are known languages; the native language of the speaker(s) – what Christians are producing today (actually anyone who produces glossolalia) is not language at all, let alone a language spoken (dead or living) somewhere on planet earth.
It seems rather odd that every individual ‘tongues speaker’ has their own unique distinct ‘language’ whose sole purpose is to speak to God or to get some sort of prophetic message from Him (typically to be interpreted by a third party). I should think that one’s own native language would be more than sufficient, and is something actually understood by the speaker.
See my previous posts – I have to respectfully disagree. If they were not self-created and were a language spoken somewhere on planet earth (either living or dead), within a few minutes of speaking, they would be recognized as such by Linguists. That has not happened to date despite many hundreds, indeed if not thousands, of examples analyzed.
God gives the language . . . . God knows the nuances of EVERY language - it is not up to the individual to know the nuances only that the individual speaks what God gives him to speak.
Yes, God knows the nuance of every language; every rational language. Again, what is produced today and called “tongues” is not language. When referring to real, rational language (as ‘tongues’ are in the Bible) God in the form of the Holy Spirit may inspire one to speak and even inspire a person on what to say, but what’s happening today is not the same thing; what’s coming out is entirely self-created. No matter how you slice and dice it, it is non-cognitive non-language utterance.
***I have been a Christian for over 40 years and found speaking in tongues to be most helpful. God's Spirit makes intercession for us according to the will of God. I tell you stories for hours about how speaking in tongues has helped people and how God uses this gift. Prayer is the main focus. If we pray alot in English we can have God's intervention, but sometimes we do not know how to pray, so praying in tongues is a way to have the Spirit involved in our lives and the lives of others. Many of God's people's problems would be helped by just praying 30 minutes a day in tongues. Tongues will build up your spirit and help you exercise faith. This gift is not superior to God's other gifts, but part of God's equipping tools for our lives.
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It's too bad the reactions don't include one of blowing a raspberry
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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1
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