RIGHT TRANSLATION IN HEBREWS 1:8
- Thread starter jameen
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There are many passages of Scripture which indicate that when Jesus ascended into Heaven, He sat at the right hand of God:
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 7:54-56 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Romans 8:33-34 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Hebrews 10:11-13 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:21-22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
David wrote in Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Hebrews 1 reveals our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as being so much better than angels (Heb 1:4).
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 7:54-56 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Romans 8:33-34 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Hebrews 10:11-13 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:21-22 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
David wrote in Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Hebrews 1 reveals our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as being so much better than angels (Heb 1:4).
-
1
- Show all
Hebrews 1:8 (KJV) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV) But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (NAS) But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Hebrews 1:8 (ESV) But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (NIV) But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
It's settled. JESUS IS GOD.
Hebrews 1:8 (NKJV) But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (NAS) But of the Son He says, "YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
Hebrews 1:8 (ESV) But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8 (NIV) But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
It's settled. JESUS IS GOD.
-
4
-
1
- Show all
What's happened, is a "picking and choosing", of merely "one" verse." Pulling it out of the context, in which Paul was giving it to be! I'll show ya here after I get this down in print.
God is using Paul, in this particular instance, as a "conduit" of a "personal conversation" BETWEEN the Father TO the Son, TO the Father! See if you can discern this "Father glorifying His Son, glorifying His Father" THROUGH the "Government" that is on the shoulders of the Son!
Hebrews 1:8-12 (KJV)
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (God has elevated TO "MESSIAH", Jesus of Nazareth, in "contrast" to FELLOW PRIESTS, of God here! AFTER the order of Melchizedek)
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: (This is the Son "repaying the compliment", if you will, in the creating of this present earth age, FOR, and with the MESSIAH.)
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; (Messiah, continuing on concerning this current earth/heaven age.)
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. (Messiah, speaking regarding ALL the Priests, except Enoch, and Elijah (who did not SEE death), over the "course" of this present age.)
Is there a Greek word for OH in Hebrews 1:8?
because some anti Jesus' divinity Christians claim that if you translate in English the Greek words there it says
thy throne the God is forever so they translate it as GOD IS YOUR THRONE FOREVER.
Is there anyone in CC who is at least knowledgeable of Greek texts of the Bible and help me to understand more why THY THRONE OH GOD IS FOREVER is the right English translation?
because some anti Jesus' divinity Christians claim that if you translate in English the Greek words there it says
thy throne the God is forever so they translate it as GOD IS YOUR THRONE FOREVER.
Is there anyone in CC who is at least knowledgeable of Greek texts of the Bible and help me to understand more why THY THRONE OH GOD IS FOREVER is the right English translation?
Try to look here: http://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm Section "Thayer's Greek Lexicon".
Greek "ho" can have many meanings and is also submitted to some grammatical rules.
While the Heb 1:8 is 99% the right translation, I would not dive into Greek textual discussions with unbelievers, when there is even the smallest ambiguity. They will stick to their "possible, though not probable" version.
Use some verses that cannot be discussed. Or, use historical church creeds.
Greek "ho" can have many meanings and is also submitted to some grammatical rules.
While the Heb 1:8 is 99% the right translation, I would not dive into Greek textual discussions with unbelievers, when there is even the smallest ambiguity. They will stick to their "possible, though not probable" version.
Use some verses that cannot be discussed. Or, use historical church creeds.
Why would anyone give credence to this absurd and nonsensical mis-translation? Every English translation is identical for Heb 1:8. It is only the Jehovah's Witnesses -- who deny the deity of Christ -- who have also perverted this verse along with John 1:1.
It is blasphemous to equate God with His throne and suggest that Jesus would literally sit on His Father as though the latter were an inanimate object. Shame on those who pervert Scripture, and woe to those who pervert the truth.
It is blasphemous to equate God with His throne and suggest that Jesus would literally sit on His Father as though the latter were an inanimate object. Shame on those who pervert Scripture, and woe to those who pervert the truth.
-
1
- Show all
As JChesney pointed out, this is a case of the nominative acting as a vocative of address.
There are two major questions that confront us in the structure of verse 8. First, is the complete absence of the vocative case indicator in the opening address, πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν, Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ θεὸς. Second, is the question of the subject. So, what are the possibilities?
θεὸς is the nominative spelling rather that the vocative θεέ. Yet, it still functions as a vocative. Such use is common in the New Testament. This is what Wallace refers to as a "nominative for a vocative." In his Greek grammar “Beyond the Basics - an exegetical syntax of the New Testament,” on page 59, Wallace comments on the use of the nominative for the vocative using Hebrews 1:8 as his example.
Wallace says,
“A substantive in the nominative is used in the place of the vocative case. It is used (as is the vocative) in direct address to designate the addressee. There are three syntactical possibilities for θεός here: as a subject (“God is your throne”), predicate nominative (“your throne is God”), and nominative for vocative (as in the translation above). The Subject and Predicate Nominative translations can be lumped together and set off against the nominative for vocative approach. It is our view that the nominative. for vocative view is to be preferred for the following reasons:
(1) It is an overstatement to argue that if a writer wanted to address God he could have used the vocative θεέ, because no where in the NT is this done except in Matthew 27:46. The articular nominative for vocative is the almost universal choice.
(2) This is especially the case in quoting from the LXX (as in Hebrews 1:8; cf. Hebrews 10:7), for the LXX is equally reticent to use the vocative form, most likely since Hebrew lacked such a form.
(3) The accentuation in the Hebrew of Psalms 45:7 suggests that there should be a pause between “throne” and “God” (indicating that tradition took “God” as direct address).
(4) This view takes seriously the μέν … δέ construction in verses 7–8, while the Subject - Predicate Nominative view does not adequately handle these conjunctions. Specifically, if we read v 8 as “your throne is God” the δέ loses its adversative force, for such a statement could also be made of the angels, viz., that God reigns over them.” End Quote.
The nominative vs. the vocative is indeed a powerful argument. In all other instances where God is addressed in the New Testament, other than Matthew 27:46, God is addressed in the nominative case yet, the force of the address is vocative. In Mark 15:34, Mark rehearses this same account of the crucifixion and he uses the nominative case rather that the vocative in Jesus' address to the Father as Matthew did - Ὁ θεός μου ὁ θεός μου, εἰς τί ἐγκατέλιπές με. This example gives force to the use of the nominative functioning as a vocative. Hebrews. 1:8 is simply another example of this type of grammatical structure.
In verse 9, this same grammatical structure is found yet again in the phrase - διὰ τοῦτο ἔχρισεν σε ὁ θεὸς, ὁ θεός σου ἔλαιον – “Because of this God, your God has anointed you with oil...” Here again is a case of the nominative functioning as the vocative. The only absolute vocative spelling of address appears in verse 10 where the Father addressing the Son as Lord saying, καί, Σὺ κατ’ ἀρχάς, κύριε – “And you in beginning Lord...”?
The force of the nominative functioning as a vocative then offers very strong support to the translation “Thy throne O God.” This in turn establishes the throne as the subject and God as the possessor of the throne. The Son is the God who occupies the throne.
There are two major questions that confront us in the structure of verse 8. First, is the complete absence of the vocative case indicator in the opening address, πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν, Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ θεὸς. Second, is the question of the subject. So, what are the possibilities?
θεὸς is the nominative spelling rather that the vocative θεέ. Yet, it still functions as a vocative. Such use is common in the New Testament. This is what Wallace refers to as a "nominative for a vocative." In his Greek grammar “Beyond the Basics - an exegetical syntax of the New Testament,” on page 59, Wallace comments on the use of the nominative for the vocative using Hebrews 1:8 as his example.
Wallace says,
“A substantive in the nominative is used in the place of the vocative case. It is used (as is the vocative) in direct address to designate the addressee. There are three syntactical possibilities for θεός here: as a subject (“God is your throne”), predicate nominative (“your throne is God”), and nominative for vocative (as in the translation above). The Subject and Predicate Nominative translations can be lumped together and set off against the nominative for vocative approach. It is our view that the nominative. for vocative view is to be preferred for the following reasons:
(1) It is an overstatement to argue that if a writer wanted to address God he could have used the vocative θεέ, because no where in the NT is this done except in Matthew 27:46. The articular nominative for vocative is the almost universal choice.
(2) This is especially the case in quoting from the LXX (as in Hebrews 1:8; cf. Hebrews 10:7), for the LXX is equally reticent to use the vocative form, most likely since Hebrew lacked such a form.
(3) The accentuation in the Hebrew of Psalms 45:7 suggests that there should be a pause between “throne” and “God” (indicating that tradition took “God” as direct address).
(4) This view takes seriously the μέν … δέ construction in verses 7–8, while the Subject - Predicate Nominative view does not adequately handle these conjunctions. Specifically, if we read v 8 as “your throne is God” the δέ loses its adversative force, for such a statement could also be made of the angels, viz., that God reigns over them.” End Quote.
The nominative vs. the vocative is indeed a powerful argument. In all other instances where God is addressed in the New Testament, other than Matthew 27:46, God is addressed in the nominative case yet, the force of the address is vocative. In Mark 15:34, Mark rehearses this same account of the crucifixion and he uses the nominative case rather that the vocative in Jesus' address to the Father as Matthew did - Ὁ θεός μου ὁ θεός μου, εἰς τί ἐγκατέλιπές με. This example gives force to the use of the nominative functioning as a vocative. Hebrews. 1:8 is simply another example of this type of grammatical structure.
In verse 9, this same grammatical structure is found yet again in the phrase - διὰ τοῦτο ἔχρισεν σε ὁ θεὸς, ὁ θεός σου ἔλαιον – “Because of this God, your God has anointed you with oil...” Here again is a case of the nominative functioning as the vocative. The only absolute vocative spelling of address appears in verse 10 where the Father addressing the Son as Lord saying, καί, Σὺ κατ’ ἀρχάς, κύριε – “And you in beginning Lord...”?
The force of the nominative functioning as a vocative then offers very strong support to the translation “Thy throne O God.” This in turn establishes the throne as the subject and God as the possessor of the throne. The Son is the God who occupies the throne.
-
2
-
1
- Show all