Speaking in tongues

[shrume]

In Acts their language was not changed what the folks heard was changed.

In Acts the apostles spoke in tongues. They did not know what they were saying. But the languages they were speaking were the languages of the others present

If it were not for the cloven tongues of fire I doubt Peter and the rest even would have known what was being heard.

Peter and the rest did not know what they were saying, let alone what was being heard, until the others told them they were speaking the wonderful works of God.

You must begin to consider that the events in the NT were still in the context of a Jewish society. Salvation is to the Jew first then the Gentile. You do not see what is going on because you are not focused on the setting context.

That's irrelevant to the fact that the apostles were speaking in tongues.

 

[CS1]

Without different languages there is no gift of tongues. You cannot have chickens without eggs.

Serious problem. Jesus said receive the Holy Spirit. You don't believe Jesus?

Wholly false assumption. Tongues are languages. Paul was multi-lingual.

Bad doctrine is screened out. The truth is readily received.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why do you result to insults and rudeness ? I find it funny how those who are shown scripture and cannot support the position they hold using gen 11, gravitate to rudeness and insults. Then when called on they say I'm not trying to be insulting or rude . BUT you are. lets drop it RickyZ was right Hey Rickyz you were right I was wrong . Thank you

 

[CS1]

In Acts the apostles spoke in tongues. They did not know what they were saying. But the languages they were speaking were the languages of the others present


Peter and the rest did not know what they were saying, let alone what was being heard, until the others told them they were speaking the wonderful works of God.


That's irrelevant to the fact that the apostles were speaking in tongues.

Shrume,
this is what I believe is the context of gen 11 as I read it. God changed the ability of those to understand by changing the language they new to one they did not know.

Acts 2 The Holy Spirit gave the ability to speak in a language that was not native to them or was taught. BUT they still had the ability too speak in the Language they did know from birth after they were given the ability to speak in a language they were never taught.

gen 11 = language changed caused confusion and did not have the ability to understand it and were unable to communicate .

Acts 2 = they all spoke did not know yet were able to still speak in the language of their birth.

 

[Dino246]

In Acts their language was not changed what the folks heard was changed.

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."

It was a miracle of speech, not a miracle of hearing.

If it were not for the cloven tongues of fire I doubt Peter and the rest even would have known what was being heard.

Huh? I can't see any sense in that statement.

 

[RickyZ]

Where is that in the Bible?


That is nothing but conjecture. Also, most people's tongues are different. If what you say is true, when people spoke in tongues, they would all be speaking the same language.

Zeph 3:
9“Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him shoulder to shoulder.

Yes it is a theory. One that can't be truly proven - or disproven. And yes every individual tongue is part of the heavenly language.

Looking at the event in Acts ... were the speakers really speaking the languages of the hearers. or were the hearers 'interpreters', hearing their language in the words given by God? If God can inform our speech, can He not inform or hearing?

 

[RickyZ]

Zeph 3:
9“Then I will purify the lips of the peoples, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him shoulder to shoulder.

Yes it is a theory. One that can't be truly proven - or disproven. And yes every individual tongue is part of the heavenly language.

Looking at the event in Acts ... were the speakers really speaking the languages of the hearers. or were the hearers 'interpreters', hearing their language in the words given by God? If God can inform our speech, can He not inform or hearing?

I look at it this way ... compare it to another gift, healing. God created us whole, never to be sick. We fell into sin, and sickness came upon us. When Christ returns to redeem creation He will restore full health. Until then, we have the ability to 'import' some of that here and now thru the gift of healing. Yes healings will stop, when Christ returns and nobody's getting sick anymore it won't be needed.

Likewise, tongues. We had a pure language that all understood. Lost that at Babel by getting too full of ourselves. But when Christ restores what was lost, we will again have that singular language that all will understand. Until then, we have the gift of tongues and prophecy that 'imports' that future restoration into the here and now. And likewise when Christ returns and that singular language is fully restored, tongues will cease because they are no longer needed. What we now speak in part, we will speak in whole.

 

[garee]

No you assume that. Acts 2 proves that wrong . Well if you think Paul never taught unknown tongues were of any value in the church would be correct when you leave out 10 verses from chapter 14 as you choose to do

verse1cor 14: 2: For he who speaks in an unknown tongues does not speak to men , but to God

No value speaking to God huh?

Another paraphrase to help look . Keeping in mind.. tongues is a sign that confirms a person does not believe the word of God prophecy .Making the idea of Charismaticism to no effect as those who do seek after a sign before they believe they are filled with the Holy Spirit which Christ called a evil generation. Turning things upside down.


Tongues are not the greatest gift

Follow, then, the way of love, while you set your heart on the gifts of the Spirit. The highest gift you can wish for is "to be able to speak the messages of God". The man who speaks in a “tongue” addresses not men (for no one understands a word he says) but God: and only in his spirit is he speaking spiritual secrets. But he who preaches the word of God is using his speech for the building up of the faith of one man, the encouragement of another or the consolation of another. The speaker in a “tongue” builds up his own soul, but the preacher builds up the Church of God. Corinthians 14.... J.B.

We are not to build up our own soul . Pride comes before the fall.

 

[Dino246]

... We are not to build up our own soul . Pride comes before the fall.

"But you, dear friends, by building yourselves up in your most holy faith and praying in the Holy Spirit" (Jude 1:20).

 

[CS1]

Another paraphrase to help look . Keeping in mind.. tongues is a sign that confirms a person does not believe the word of God prophecy .Making the idea of Charismaticism to no effect as those who do seek after a sign before they believe they are filled with the Holy Spirit which Christ called a evil generation. Turning things upside down.


Tongues are not the greatest gift

Follow, then, the way of love, while you set your heart on the gifts of the Spirit. The highest gift you can wish for is "to be able to speak the messages of God". The man who speaks in a “tongue” addresses not men (for no one understands a word he says) but God: and only in his spirit is he speaking spiritual secrets. But he who preaches the word of God is using his speech for the building up of the faith of one man, the encouragement of another or the consolation of another. The speaker in a “tongue” builds up his own soul, but the preacher builds up the Church of God. Corinthians 14.... J.B.

We are not to build up our own soul . Pride comes before the fall.

build up are own souls ? That is not the context of Build up. Build up is Edify, which is the main use for the Gifts of the Holy Spirit".
"tongues are not the greatest gifts" is not stated in the Bible nor can you show me were it states that .

 

[notuptome]

I look at it this way ... compare it to another gift, healing. God created us whole, never to be sick. We fell into sin, and sickness came upon us. When Christ returns to redeem creation He will restore full health. Until then, we have the ability to 'import' some of that here and now thru the gift of healing. Yes healings will stop, when Christ returns and nobody's getting sick anymore it won't be needed.

Likewise, tongues. We had a pure language that all understood. Lost that at Babel by getting too full of ourselves. But when Christ restores what was lost, we will again have that singular language that all will understand. Until then, we have the gift of tongues and prophecy that 'imports' that future restoration into the here and now. And likewise when Christ returns and that singular language is fully restored, tongues will cease because they are no longer needed. What we now speak in part, we will speak in whole.

Perhaps you should write a book. It will probably find a market.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

build up are own souls ? That is not the context of Build up. Build up is Edify, which is the main use for the Gifts of the Holy Spirit".
"tongues are not the greatest gifts" is not stated in the Bible nor can you show me were it states that .

You have yet to show how anyone can be built up without knowledge? Knowledge is required to attain understanding and understanding to attain wisdom.

What you are proposing is not biblical. Just demonstrating a misreading of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."
It was a miracle of speech, not a miracle of hearing.

Yet the interpretation was in the ears of the hearers. You make an assumption that the speakers knew they were speaking in any tongue other than their own. The Holy Spirit knew and it was He who penned the scriptures.

Huh? I can't see any sense in that statement.

When you speak you her your own voice. Someone standing next to you does not hear your voice the same as you hear it. Record yourself and listen to what you sound like. It can be quite surprising how different you sound to others.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Why do you result to insults and rudeness ? I find it funny how those who are shown scripture and cannot support the position they hold using gen 11, gravitate to rudeness and insults. Then when called on they say I'm not trying to be insulting or rude . BUT you are. lets drop it RickyZ was right Hey Rickyz you were right I was wrong . Thank you

Insults and rudeness? I simply broke things down to a point where it would be very difficult not to comprehend it.

Funny that you are unable to accept the scriptures and their historic context.

Changing the sign of tongues from one of warning to one of blessing is like changing the Roman cross from an instrument of death to one of hope.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Yet the interpretation was in the ears of the hearers. You make an assumption that the speakers knew they were speaking in any tongue other than their own. The Holy Spirit knew and it was He who penned the scriptures.

Pardon my bluntness, but what part of "speak with other tongues" are you not understanding?

When you speak you her your own voice. Someone standing next to you does not hear your voice the same as you hear it. Record yourself and listen to what you sound like. It can be quite surprising how different you sound to others.

That has absolutely nothing to do with "cloven tongues of fire".

 

[CS1]

You have yet to show how anyone can be built up without knowledge? Knowledge is required to attain understanding and understanding to attain wisdom.

What you are proposing is not biblical. Just demonstrating a misreading of scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

first I was not speaking to you however, 1 cor 12, 13, and 14 does show how one can build up to achieve understanding which is knowledge to use wisely. Here is how I will show you Biblically

1cor 14:4-5
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.


there you go, the interpretation produces edification . which is from Websters :


to instruct and improve especially in moral and religious knowledge : uplift; also : enlighten, inform
2archaic
a : build
b : establish

your bias prevents you from seeing the context of 1cor 14 let alone 12 and 13 so it would not matter to you anyway what was given.
However, to your point

"You have yet to show how anyone can be built up without knowledge? " that is a trick and ploy statement .
Of course one cannot show one being built up without knowledge . This is why 1Cor 14:4-5 was stated.
you cannot understand an unknown language unless there is an interpretation . And 1cor 14 covers that very well.

 

[CS1]

Insults and rudeness? I simply broke things down to a point where it would be very difficult not to comprehend it.

Funny that you are unable to accept the scriptures and their historic context.

Changing the sign of tongues from one of warning to one of blessing is like changing the Roman cross from an instrument of death to one of hope.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

no I do not agree with your gen 11 application . to that you have not provided done with the Word of God to prove the context .

 

[notuptome]

Pardon my bluntness, but what part of "speak with other tongues" are you not understanding?

Show me where scripture says they knew they were speaking in other tongues. They could see the cloven tongues of fire that sat upon them and they could hear the rushing wind but how do we know they knew they were speaking in other tongues?
[/quote]
That has absolutely nothing to do with "cloven tongues of fire".[/QUOTE]
Represents the Holy Spirit upon them.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Perhaps you should write a book. It will probably find a market.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I actually modified an existing book to accommodate your and many other's positions ... the MRV!

 

[notuptome]

first I was not speaking to you however, 1 cor 12, 13, and 14 does show how one can build up to achieve understanding which is knowledge to use wisely. Here is how I will show you Biblically

1cor 14:4-5
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; [a]for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.


there you go, the interpretation produces edification . which is from Websters :


to instruct and improve especially in moral and religious knowledge : uplift; also : enlighten, inform
2archaic
a : build
b : establish

your bias prevents you from seeing the context of 1cor 14 let alone 12 and 13 so it would not matter to you anyway what was given.
However, to your point

"You have yet to show how anyone can be built up without knowledge? " that is a trick and ploy statement .
Of course one cannot show one being built up without knowledge . This is why 1Cor 14:4-5 was stated.
you cannot understand an unknown language unless there is an interpretation . And 1cor 14 covers that very well.

Who interprets your prayers for you? You are reluctant to admit that without understanding there is no edification.

I know you want to keep tongues in the confines of 1 Cor 12-14 but they are spoken of in several sections of scripture. Remember that in apostolic times the audience was mostly Jewish and their perception of tongues is quite different from the modern Gentiles of today.

Why would Christians need a special language to speak to God? We have received the Spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba Father. We can speak to God our Father without the vail. We speak to Him as if it were face to face.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I actually modified an existing book to accommodate your and many other's positions ... the MRV!

You could have a calling to write fiction. A gift as it were. A self biographical work.


For the cause of Christ
Roger