Your thoughts on original sin?
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I see what you are trying to convey.
I agree with the first sentence but not your second sentence.
To me if we do not inherit the sins of our ancestors (which I totally agree with) then we cannot inherit the punishment for their sins such as disease.
If we think about it, if a parents sin leads to disease based on their sin and if we believe that we do not inherit their sin and do not walk in their sin why would we inherit their disease?
OK so let's say a mom is in early pregnancy and she cheats on her husband by having multiple homosexual orgies. She gets the Aids disease, and that disease enters the baby boy's blood, and the baby is born with the mother's punishment (Aids). That baby may inherit the punishment, but not the sin. That baby, even when grown into an adult, will never be guilty of the mothers sin, because he is not the one who participated in orgies.
"The son is not guilty of the sins of the father, and the father is not guilty of the sins of the son."
On Day 6, God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good (Gen 1:31).
Now let’s look at Rom 8:
Romans 8:
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
As a result of Adam and Eve not following God's instruction, every thing that God made went from very good to unwillingly subject to vanity, in bondage to corruption, all of creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
And we have promise from God — the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God (Rom 8:18-19).
Now let’s look at Rom 8:
Romans 8:
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
As a result of Adam and Eve not following God's instruction, every thing that God made went from very good to unwillingly subject to vanity, in bondage to corruption, all of creation groans and travails in pain together until now.
And we have promise from God — the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God (Rom 8:18-19).
First of all let's deal with the Scriptures you have presented, but focus on Rom 7:9.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
What exactly is Paul saying in modern parlance? That as long as he was unaware of the Ten Commandments, he believed he was alive, and would not be judged. But when he saw the commandments, he recognized that he had violated them, and was therefore under a death sentence. He did not die that very moment, but was as good as dead.
So we won't concern ourselves with your other references, but determine the commonly held meaning of "original sin" and see if it is supported by Scripture. According to Theopedia (which is generally quite accurate):
Original sin is the doctrine which holds that human nature has been morally and ethically corrupted due to the disobedience of mankind's first parents to the revealed will of God. In the Bible, the first human transgression of God's command is described as the sin of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden resulting in what theology calls the Fall of mankind. The doctrine of original sin holds that every person born into the world is tainted by the Fall such that all of humanity is ethically debilitated, and people are powerless to rehabilitate themselves, unless rescued by God.
And is this supported by Scripture? Absolutely. Why don't you study Romans 5 carefully and see it for yourself. And hopefully come back and tell us that you were dead wrong.
I have concluded that all actions and temptations outside of God’s original design for humans would be sin. We are born into sin, but not with sin. Society has taught us its rules from the start, damning all because this causes us to abandon God’s instinctual tendencies. Sex is for procreation, period. Animals run around naked without feeling the temptation of having all of their pleasure seeking desires filled. Most eat according to design and do not seek to gorge themselves on calorie rich concoctions. Most mammals arrange themselves in groups and establish “government” or hierarchy based on physical attributes that serve the whole, to strengthen the pack. This is God’s system. It is organized. They all obey their instincts, they are intune with design.
Domesticated dogs, because we have taught them right from wrong are out of tune with their natural instinct. That is how they feel guilt. If you read the Bible objectively it is easy to spot how we allow what we have been taught to bias our interpretation. The fruit of the knowledge of (the tree) of good and evil is guilt. That is why we need forgiveness, then we can reconcile to God. Once you learn or experience something, you can’t unlearn it. The dopamine has taken effect and established a pleasure sensor in your brain that continually yearns to be revisited. Overstimulation of our natural God given desires, eating, procreating, community (acceptance), cause us to be tempted to desire these things in higher amounts.
We are programable and this society has programmed us to desire these things, propagating a system out of tune of God’s intent. The ruler of this world has led us on a path which entices the flesh. We are in bondage to our unnatural urges because dopamine has caused a feedback loop. This is why we are to ignore the flesh and be spiritually reborn. The soul longs to communicate with the Spirit. Guilt interrupts this. Separation of sin, is separation of guilt. Forgiveness from God and forgiveness from one another helps us to reconnect with the Almighty.
I guess those are my thoughts, take ‘em, or leave ‘em.
Domesticated dogs, because we have taught them right from wrong are out of tune with their natural instinct. That is how they feel guilt. If you read the Bible objectively it is easy to spot how we allow what we have been taught to bias our interpretation. The fruit of the knowledge of (the tree) of good and evil is guilt. That is why we need forgiveness, then we can reconcile to God. Once you learn or experience something, you can’t unlearn it. The dopamine has taken effect and established a pleasure sensor in your brain that continually yearns to be revisited. Overstimulation of our natural God given desires, eating, procreating, community (acceptance), cause us to be tempted to desire these things in higher amounts.
We are programable and this society has programmed us to desire these things, propagating a system out of tune of God’s intent. The ruler of this world has led us on a path which entices the flesh. We are in bondage to our unnatural urges because dopamine has caused a feedback loop. This is why we are to ignore the flesh and be spiritually reborn. The soul longs to communicate with the Spirit. Guilt interrupts this. Separation of sin, is separation of guilt. Forgiveness from God and forgiveness from one another helps us to reconnect with the Almighty.
I guess those are my thoughts, take ‘em, or leave ‘em.
This verse makes a strong case for being born with a fallen, sinful nature.
Here is another verse - The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from birth (Psalm 58:3).
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Original sin 101
1 cor 15 states that death came by one man, so in like maner shall life also shall come the ressurection of the dead.
for IN ADAM all (everyone who ever was nborn) DIE, even so in Christ shall ALL (who are born again) be made alive.
1 cor 15 states that death came by one man, so in like maner shall life also shall come the ressurection of the dead.
for IN ADAM all (everyone who ever was nborn) DIE, even so in Christ shall ALL (who are born again) be made alive.
Ok, where does Christ inform us to separate original sin from sin non original sin, mortal from venial, white lies from real lies?
I think it was Catholisim making things up and inventing connections where there are none, in order to make scripture without effect .
Are you trusting purgatory or limbo to take away the non original sin?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
again
in adam all die.
All die because of adams sin, So that all can be made alive through christs righteous act.
I agree however with the mortal and venial nonsense. All sin causes death.. if not for grace, no matter how small it is, we would all be condemned by the law.
Paul is saying that before he was old enough to understand and choose not to obey the law (around age 12), he was spiritually alive. We are born with original sin but it is a non moral condition. The moral condition starts when we commit our first sin around age of 12 and spiritually die.
Ok
I see what you were trying to convey.
I thought you were saying we inherit the punishment of our ancestors regards their sin.
But given the example above do you mean to say "We suffer as a consequence of their practised sin?
Rather then just saying duh try explain why it's duh.
Then maybe I may think you are not trying to call me an idiot
You would be correct I believe. "Therefore, I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct," (Ezekiel 18:30)
And Ezekiel 18:19-32 does appear to say the same thing. We do not inherit original sin.
We Christians have a spiritual nature now.
Rejoice! The old is gone and God remembers that one no more.
I agree. If our first parents' bite out of an apple was a Mortal sin (which, BTW, was an apple from their own tree in their own Garden), then what sin could ever be committed that would rank as "Venial" then??
~Deut
beautifully said. Thinking about how fallen man, in comparison to God's love taking us and engrafting that fallen dry branch, to himself to become one with him, and a tree is engrafted with another part and bound with a moist towel, for it to grow. Was reading one of the names of engrafting to a fruit tree, so the fruit will have the same characteristics of fruits put together with the other. So we are made to himself, and to be of his characteristics bearing the fruits of the holy spirit. So deep. Really love it. Yes and amen. We need to grow, and be watered in and by his holy word.