BASIS FOR PURGATORY IN THE BIBLE

[Slayer]

Can anyone explain with Bible verses if you disagree that the verses used are wrong before giving verses to disprove the existence of purgatory?

1 Corinthians 3:12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The prison of spirits which Christ had visited after he was crucified is purgatory ( 1 Peter 3:18-19)

There is a need for purgatory in order to be cleansed because for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God as mentioned in Romans 3:23.

you cannot go to paradise if you have stain of sin:

Revelation 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

1 Cor 3:12 seems to be speaking about what a person has achieved in this life. It sounds like the sum total of his achievements in this life will be tested with fire, so if a person only managed to achieve material wealth and he hasn't gained any spiritual treasures. His material treasures will be burnt up and he will be left with nothing of any value.

I don't see how they came up with the concept of purgatory, but it sounds like it was invented as a means to sell indulgences and make lots of money. My relatives make regular payments to the Catholic Priests so they can say mass and pray that God would release our dead relatives from purgatory.

I have been at mass when they asked everyone to dig deep to pay for all those in purgatory who have been forgotten by their relatives and nobody is paying for mass to get them out. It's a great money making scam, but it's not Biblical and it doesn't exist

 

[Webers.Home]

.

If those men had been righteous they would have gone to Paradise.

The Bible speaks of a paradise called the paradise of God. (Rev 2:7)

Jesus went to a paradise when he died on the cross (Luke 23:43) but it
wasn't the paradise of God. (John 20:17)

In point of fact; the paradise that Jesus went to wasn't up; it was down.
(Matt 12:40)

Specifically down in hades. (Acts 2:25-31)

The doomed rich man also went to hades. (Luke 16:22-23)

I think we can safely conclude that hades consists of two sectors: a sector
that's really good, and a sector that's not so good.
_

 

[Ralph-]

I have often heard Roman Catholics try to build a scriptural case for purgatory based on 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, but the problem with that argument is that the context is in regards to the testing of works, not the burning of men.

In context, the work being tested are men and women whom the laborer in the field and building of God raised up in the field and building of God.

Some of those men and women added to the field and building are false. They will be purged out of the kingdom of God at the end of the age by fire:

40“So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will throw them into the furnace of fire..."-Matthew 13:40-42


The worker won't have any reward for those he brought into the kingdom but who proved to be false and who, because they are false, will be burned up like hay, wood, and stubble in the final Judgment of this age by fire. The worker himself will be saved but he will have no reward for his handiwork in the temple of God because that work got burned up in the Judgment.

"11“You have conceived chaff, you will give birth to stubble;
My breath will consume you like a fire.

12“The peoples will be burned to lime,
Like cut thorns which are burned in the fire."- Isaiah 33:11-12


14“Behold, they have become like stubble,
Fire burns them;
They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame"- Isaiah 47:14


But, yes, the passage has nothing to do with Purgatory.

 

[jaybird88]

Yep, first we have to tell the truth. Who know they repent. Unfortunatelly some people think If we say purgatory is wrong they consider hatred.

To tell purgatory wrong is love, because It warn other not follow the teaching and go to hell.

To say purgatory right is hatred.

in orther words you have no response bexouse this has noting to do with what i said.

so there is no purgatory yet we have many times all over the bible telling us of a judgment that awaits everyone after this life. do you seriousely believe this judgment consest of only two outcomes, heaven or hell? for some reason im thinking its quite a bit more complicated than that. everyone is held accountable for their actions in this life so where do you think people go to answer for their actions?

 

[jaybird88]

I have often heard Roman Catholics try to build a scriptural case for purgatory based on 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, but the problem with that argument is that the context is in regards to the testing of works, not the burning of men.

The false doctrine of purgatory is a fatal deception which denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross and blinds Roman Catholics from knowing and trusting in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ alone.

Rom 14
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

St Paul must have been confused like those Catholics because he thinks there is a judgment awaiting us after this life.

 

[Metternich]

Can someone interpret this verse for me?

Col 1:24
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Can someone interpret this verse for me?

Col 1:24
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

Jesus told his Disciples that they would suffer for his namesake. Matthew 24:9. That is a verse concerning suffering in this life.


Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you
The apostle, as soon as he had made mention of his being a minister of the Gospel, thinks and speaks of his "sufferings"; for those are what always more or less attend persons in such an office; they are appointed to them by God; Christ has foretold them of them; they are necessary for them; they must expect them, and patiently endure them: the apostle was under them now at this present time, for he wrote this epistle in his bonds when a prisoner at Rome, not for any immorality, any crime he had committed, but for Christ's sake, for his Gospel's sake, for the sake of the churches of Christ to whom he preached, for the confirmation of them, and so of these Colossians; and therefore he says, "for you"; and which he mentions to animate them to abide by the Gospel, for which he was suffering, that it might continue with them and others: nor was he distressed and discouraged at his afflictions, he "rejoiced" in them, because he had the presence of God in them, the Spirit of God and of glory rested on him, and God was glorified by them; he esteemed it an honour done him that grace was given, and he counted worthy to suffer for the sake of Christ; and as well knowing that he should live and reign with him, since he suffered with him and for him: and what greatly caused and increased his joy was what follows,

and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my
flesh; (Continued)

 

[jaybird88]

1 Cor 3:12 seems to be speaking about what a person has achieved in this life. It sounds like the sum total of his achievements in this life will be tested with fire, so if a person only managed to achieve material wealth and he hasn't gained any spiritual treasures. His material treasures will be burnt up and he will be left with nothing of any value.

I don't see how they came up with the concept of purgatory, but it sounds like it was invented as a means to sell indulgences and make lots of money. My relatives make regular payments to the Catholic Priests so they can say mass and pray that God would release our dead relatives from purgatory.

I have been at mass when they asked everyone to dig deep to pay for all those in purgatory who have been forgotten by their relatives and nobody is paying for mass to get them out. It's a great money making scam, but it's not Biblical and it doesn't exist

no ones better at those money making schemes than the prosperity preachers. but they are all non Catholic. i love it when creflo does the tippy toe dance on the money.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

no ones better at those money making schemes than the prosperity preachers. but they are all non Catholic. i love it when creflo does the tippy toe dance on the money.

And that's the same man that convinced that congregation years later to buy him a private top of the line jet.

Here's a compilation of well dressed wolves conspiring and sometimes together. I think they're atheists. How could they believe one word in scripture and still commit to these evil schemes?

 

[jaybird88]

And that's the same man that convinced that congregation years later to buy him a private top of the line jet.

Here's a compilation of well dressed wolves conspiring and sometimes together. I think they're atheists. How could they believe one word in scripture and still commit to these evil schemes?

some of these guys are so bad i often wonder if they are planted by anti Christians to make us look like idiots.

 

[Metternich]

Jesus told his Disciples that they would suffer for his namesake. Matthew 24:9. That is a verse concerning suffering in this life.


Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you
The apostle, as soon as he had made mention of his being a minister of the Gospel, thinks and speaks of his "sufferings"; for those are what always more or less attend persons in such an office; they are appointed to them by God; Christ has foretold them of them; they are necessary for them; they must expect them, and patiently endure them: the apostle was under them now at this present time, for he wrote this epistle in his bonds when a prisoner at Rome, not for any immorality, any crime he had committed, but for Christ's sake, for his Gospel's sake, for the sake of the churches of Christ to whom he preached, for the confirmation of them, and so of these Colossians; and therefore he says, "for you"; and which he mentions to animate them to abide by the Gospel, for which he was suffering, that it might continue with them and others: nor was he distressed and discouraged at his afflictions, he "rejoiced" in them, because he had the presence of God in them, the Spirit of God and of glory rested on him, and God was glorified by them; he esteemed it an honour done him that grace was given, and he counted worthy to suffer for the sake of Christ; and as well knowing that he should live and reign with him, since he suffered with him and for him: and what greatly caused and increased his joy was what follows,

and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my
flesh; (Continued)

Col 1;24
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Col 1:24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

The problematic words for me are "what is lacking in Christ's afflictions". Can you explain those words?

 

[mailmandan]

But, yes, the passage has nothing to do with Purgatory.

Amen! That is the main point.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

some of these guys are so bad i often wonder if they are planted by anti Christians to make us look like idiots.

I think they are themselves anti-Christians.
Paula White owns a gorgeous top outfitted Rolls Royce. I don't see her pulling up to a food kitchen she sponsors through the church that serves the homeless.
They're all about planting that seed, except for Osteen. He makes his living preaching for thirty minutes and then taking the transcript of a year or so's worth of sermons and binds them into his latest self-help book.

Now I admit I would LOVE to drive a brand new Rolls Royce. That was my dad's dream car. However, the money those fancy outfitted two axels costs could go toward buying an abandoned retail property and converting it into a help center for the indigent.
And Goodwill depending on what community they're open near is an outlet where high dollar designer clothing could be had so as to clad that prosperity preacher on the cheap. While they look very richly appointed. And the monies they've saved could go to a donations bank to help the members of the congregation that fall on hard desperate times.

But that's thinking like a child of God who naturally gravitates toward the Shepherd mode.
And that's not found in a self-professed pastor with a last name Dollar. Or a first that would be, Cash.

There was a reality TV show featuring very rich pastors. But that took a flop when these wolves showed themselves to be what they are to a national audience. One of the men featured had a baby out of wedlock, lived with the GF, and he was quite young, and then married her after she became pregnant with their second child .

TD Jakes puts on a good show. His daughter was the same way. Pregnant out of wedlock. Married the baby daddy.

And Hinn's scandals last I heard number at least as many fingers as I have on one hand.
His wife is at it now. That's something to watch let me tell you.

I think all that public news that relates these type preachers falling, like Mark Driscoll. My skin crawled the first time I caught him on TV. Probably because well before that in 2001 guy made one heck of a sermon about the roll of wives. I won't publish the excerpt here because it may offend. And in case we have minor children aboard. But if you want to read it click this. And he's married! Would love to have seen the wife's face during this sermon.

 

[mailmandan]

Rom 14
10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

St Paul must have been confused like those Catholics because he thinks there is a judgment awaiting us after this life.

Which brother of mine did I pass judgment on? I was just stating a fact that I have often heard Roman Catholics try to build a scriptural case for purgatory based on 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, but the problem with that argument is that the context is in regards to the testing of works, not the burning of men and the false doctrine of purgatory is a fatal deception which denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross and blinds Roman Catholics from knowing and trusting in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ alone.

That does not mean that some Roman Catholics will not come to receive the truth in spite of what the Roman Catholic church teaches about purgatory and how it denies the sufficiency of Christ and not because of what they teach. Don't forget, I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and I even attended a Catholic school for 5 years, so I am not unfamiliar with their doctrines. Been there, done that.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

Col 1;24
24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version. (2016). (Col 1:24). Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

The problematic words for me are "what is lacking in Christ's afflictions". Can you explain those words?

I can try.
Colossians was written to the church in Ephesus where the Colossians were apparently conflating the teachings of Christ with astrology, magic, and Judaism and relegated Christ to a lesser status, like unto an angel , than letting his truth remain focused in teaching that he was Messiah.

Those words are Paul's prison epistle, letter, concerning himself suffering in order to minister the Gospel as Jesus did in bringing it first. . Though, he admits, he's suffering in a different way than Christ and for what he endured bringing his Father's good news.

 

[jaybird88]

Which brother of mine did I pass judgment on? I was just stating a fact that I have often heard Roman Catholics try to build a scriptural case for purgatory based on 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, but the problem with that argument is that the context is in regards to the testing of works, not the burning of men and the false doctrine of purgatory is a fatal deception which denies the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement for sin on the cross and blinds Roman Catholics from knowing and trusting in the sufficiency of Jesus Christ alone.

That does not mean that some Roman Catholics will not come to receive the truth in spite of what the Roman Catholic church teaches about purgatory and how it denies the sufficiency of Christ and not because of what they teach. Don't forget, I grew up in the Roman Catholic church and I even attended a Catholic school for 5 years, so I am not unfamiliar with their doctrines. Been there, done that.

i dont think your passing judgment on anyone, thats not the point i was making. the point was at the end of the passage, we all face a judgment in the next world, purgatory is a judgment.

 

[jameen]

And that's the same man that convinced that congregation years later to buy him a private top of the line jet.

Here's a compilation of well dressed wolves conspiring and sometimes together. I think they're atheists. How could they believe one word in scripture and still commit to these evil schemes?

There are really people who make merchandise of God's words. most of them are from Bible based non Catholic groups.

Second Peter Chapter 2

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

 

[jaybird88]

I think they are themselves anti-Christians.
Paula White owns a gorgeous top outfitted Rolls Royce. I don't see her pulling up to a food kitchen she sponsors through the church that serves the homeless.
They're all about planting that seed, except for Osteen. He makes his living preaching for thirty minutes and then taking the transcript of a year or so's worth of sermons and binds them into his latest self-help book.

Now I admit I would LOVE to drive a brand new Rolls Royce. That was my dad's dream car. However, the money those fancy outfitted two axels costs could go toward buying an abandoned retail property and converting it into a help center for the indigent.
And Goodwill depending on what community they're open near is an outlet where high dollar designer clothing could be had so as to clad that prosperity preacher on the cheap. While they look very richly appointed. And the monies they've saved could go to a donations bank to help the members of the congregation that fall on hard desperate times.

But that's thinking like a child of God who naturally gravitates toward the Shepherd mode.
And that's not found in a self-professed pastor with a last name Dollar. Or a first that would be, Cash.

There was a reality TV show featuring very rich pastors. But that took a flop when these wolves showed themselves to be what they are to a national audience. One of the men featured had a baby out of wedlock, lived with the GF, and he was quite young, and then married her after she became pregnant with their second child .

TD Jakes puts on a good show. His daughter was the same way. Pregnant out of wedlock. Married the baby daddy.

And Hinn's scandals last I heard number at least as many fingers as I have on one hand.
His wife is at it now. That's something to watch let me tell you.

I think all that public news that relates these type preachers falling, like Mark Driscoll. My skin crawled the first time I caught him on TV. Probably because well before that in 2001 guy made one heck of a sermon about the roll of wives. I won't publish the excerpt here because it may offend. And in case we have minor children aboard. But if you want to read it click this. And he's married! Would love to have seen the wife's face during this sermon.

i agree they are anti Christians, but IMO they did not get to where they are on their own, they were put there by other anti Christians.

i have no problem with someone driving a rolls, but if thats what someone wants they do not need to take the path of the ministry to get it.
Hinns wife made one of the worst statements i ever heard, on stage and TV telling people they needed a ho*y gh**t enima up their rear rear end. very provoking speaking of the spirit in such an ugly way.

 

[shrume]

i dont think your passing judgment on anyone, thats not the point i was making. the point was at the end of the passage, we all face a judgment in the next world, purgatory is a judgment.

But there is no basis for purgatory in the Bible. It is a doctrine the Roman Catholics invented, and they SAY there are a couple of scripture that support it. But if a person reads those scripture never having heard of purgatory, they would not come away with an understanding that purgatory exists.

 

[Nehemiah6]

purgatory is a judgment.

That should be "purgatory is an IMAGINARY judgment". You won't find it in the Bible.