Trinity vs. Oneness

[Consumed]

Christianity is not just "me and my buddy Jesus" as you are portraying it to be.

it is all about Jesus, whole bible speaks of Him, OT Christ concealed - NT Christ revealed.

It is as Jesus said, "you search the scriptures for life and all scripture speaks of Him" so my friend it is all about me and my buddy Jesus, not theology, not doctrines of man, nothing but Jesus

 

[Consumed]

Alright, Aok,
livingbygrace, consumed, Red33, and VW are all trinitarians who have called you out for the way you've spoken to people on this thread. If nothing else I think this is enough to make one stop and reflect and ask themselves why so many people all see a situation the same way. None of these guys wants you to change your beliefs, just your demeanor toward those with whom you disagree. None of them is telling you to be buddy buddy with me or any other oneness believers, or to say or believe that we fit within orthodoxy. All they want is to see you act and speak kindly, charitably, lovingly, and graciously toward the PEOPLE who hold views other than your own. You are fully capable and allowed to disagree over theology, even passionately, without condemning, belittling, or otherwise treating others in a manner not befitting a servant and disciple of Jesus.
We are really just begging you to let the love you say you have in your heart shine forth in your words and demeanor. That's all.

hallelujah , thats well said in love and correction brother

 

[Ricke]

The only ones who call Oneness "Heretics" are those who broke away from the Original Church. Paul warned the Original Church about "wolves in Sheep's Clothing" and the exodus had already begun by those who did not want to adhere to The Original Gospel, so they broke off and started their own Churches where The Trinity, and Non-Holiness standards, and Baptizing everyone in a Triune formula which the Original Apostles never, ever taught. Jesus name Baptism was the only Baptismal formulae ever taught; Trinity was never preached or taught in The First Century Church, nor was allowing people to act Un-Holy and not follow the Apostolic Doctrine. THAT is why, we see so many churches today. Everybody is Saved, we are all saved by Grace nothing more needed,

OSAS, whatever tickled your ears the break a way churches have it. The Mainline Christian Religions are like Religious Show Business with all the pomp and ceremony borrowed from The Jewish Religion nd Paganism. Not to mention The Babylonian Mystery Religion in full force today.

 

[AndyPG]

I personally believe in the Trinity, three persons, one God.

This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches regarding the Trinity.

CCC 253-255
The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."

I know this isn't a Catholic site, but we Catholics are Christians, and I was just clarifying my belief by quoting it.

God bless.

 

[SantoSubito]

The only ones who call Oneness "Heretics" are those who broke away from the Original Church. Paul warned the Original Church about "wolves in Sheep's Clothing" and the exodus had already begun by those who did not want to adhere to The Original Gospel, so they broke off and started their own Churches where The Trinity, and Non-Holiness standards, and Baptizing everyone in a Triune formula which the Original Apostles never, ever taught. Jesus name Baptism was the only Baptismal formulae ever taught; Trinity was never preached or taught in The First Century Church, nor was allowing people to act Un-Holy and not follow the Apostolic Doctrine. THAT is why, we see so many churches today. Everybody is Saved, we are all saved by Grace nothing more needed,

OSAS, whatever tickled your ears the break a way churches have it. The Mainline Christian Religions are like Religious Show Business with all the pomp and ceremony borrowed from The Jewish Religion nd Paganism. Not to mention The Babylonian Mystery Religion in full force today.

Do you envision the Oneness movement as "restoring" the Early Church? You must because Oneness theology was condemned and subsequently died out until fairly recently in the late 19th and early 20th century. That or you can claim a Baptist style "Trail of Blood" theory, it's your choice.

For the sake of civility I'll ignore the falsehoods and insults you slung at the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[zone]

Do you envision the Oneness movement as "restoring" the Early Church? You must because Oneness theology was condemned and subsequently died out until fairly recently in the late 19th and early 20th century. That or you can claim a Baptist style "Trail of Blood" theory, it's your choice.

For the sake of civility I'll ignore the falsehoods and insults you slung at the Roman Catholic Church.

heya santo
i wondered what this means:

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition. - (Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 350)

through whose prayers and supplications?
regards
zone

 

[zone]

This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches regarding the Trinity.

Quote:
CCC 253-255
The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."


hey there.
i'm not entering the fray of the mystery of the GodHead, just examining the wonder of God.

i have curiosity regarding the following verses which all describe the same miraculous intervention.

i wondered how that reconciles with the sentence you wrote above.

i'm not in this thread to argue.

i believe in the Triune GodHead, a complex unity of Father Son and Spirit, as i see it in Scripture.

thanks
zone.

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Matthew 10:19
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 12
11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

[distinctiveministry]

The follow link is the opening argumentsin a debate betwen trinitarians and oneness adherents by a Oneness apologetic. It is worth a look for anyone who really wants to see what a solid defence of Oneness belief looks like.
Opening Statement Affirming the Oneness Doctrine

 

[SantoSubito]

heya santo
i wondered what this means:

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition. - (Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 350)

through whose prayers and supplications?
regards
zone

The prayers and supplications of the Saints of course! I've boldfaced and underlined the parts of the text that detail who the faithful are asking for prayers.

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition. - (Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 350)

i wondered how that reconciles with the sentence you wrote above.

Could you point out the particular sentence in question?

 

[zone]

The prayers and supplications of the Saints of course! I've boldfaced and underlined the parts of the text that detail who the faithful are asking for prayers.

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition. - (Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 350)



Could you point out the particular sentence in question?

so you mean you pray to dead saints, martyrs, etc? that they make intercession for you?

zone

 

[zone]

The prayers and supplications of the Saints of course! I've boldfaced and underlined the parts of the text that detail who the faithful are asking for prayers.

Then [during the Eucharistic prayer] we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition. - (Cyril of Jerusalem A.D. 350)



Could you point out the particular sentence in question?

sorry,
the sentence i was wondering about was in another post you made:




This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches regarding the Trinity.

Quote:
CCC 253-255
The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."


hey there.
i'm not entering the fray of the mystery of the GodHead, just examining the wonder of God.

i have curiosity regarding the following verses which all describe the same miraculous intervention.

i wondered how that reconciles with the sentence you wrote above.

i'm not in this thread to argue.

i believe in the Triune GodHead, a complex unity of Father Son and Spirit, as i see it in Scripture.

thanks
zone.

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Matthew 10:19
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 12
11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Hey Oneness folk,

I've got to step out for awhile. I just want to say I've been praying for you and I love you. You're way off base with the personal attacks, lies of me being unloving, and silly "corrections" (especially Consumed who is consumed with wrongly condemning me... lol) but people know that here at Christian Chat despite your many ad hominem attacks.

May God bless each of you from his orthodox storehouse of wisdom and truth. I think each of you, while you have a wrong teaching about who God is, are very important to the right God and I truly hope He reveals Himself to you as He really is not your misunderstanding regarding Him at some point in your life. I do pray for that.

So peace and love and God bless you. Off to read some early manuscripts on the matter. Peace all around.

 

[AndyPG]

sorry,
the sentence i was wondering about was in another post you made:




This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches regarding the Trinity.

Quote:
CCC 253-255
The dogma of the Holy Trinity

253 The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity".83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

255 The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."


hey there.
i'm not entering the fray of the mystery of the GodHead, just examining the wonder of God.

i have curiosity regarding the following verses which all describe the same miraculous intervention.

i wondered how that reconciles with the sentence you wrote above.

i'm not in this thread to argue.

i believe in the Triune GodHead, a complex unity of Father Son and Spirit, as i see it in Scripture.

thanks
zone.

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Matthew 10:19
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 12
11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

I'm sorry, Zone, but what are you trying to say?

 

[Consumed]

thank you brother for the special mention, you forgot the others who were trying to say the same thing to you, nothing to do with the topic, just the delivery of your view which you are entitled to................

all good, im in no way offended nor surprised by your statement

Be blessed.

 

[zone]

I'm sorry, Zone, but what are you trying to say?

hey andy:
i'm probably back into this more than i should be....

i was offering the following verses as an examination of the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit all apparently performing the same miraculous intervention, but more importantly that in Luke 21 Jesus says it is He who will do it. Matthew says it will be the Father doing it, and the others say The Holy Spirit will be doing it.

i just wondered about how that was possible according to what the other person had quoted according to the Catholic doctrine he posted (if i grasped it), that the Holy Spirit is not the same as the Father or The Son.

anyways....i'm giving myself a headache already. i just thought the verses confirmed my own understanding that the Triune GodHead is complex but completely unified....that the GodHead as separate persons with different roles is maybe too broad for my understanding. i'm basically a caveman i guess...

regards,
zone.

Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony. 14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: 15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Matthew 10:19
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Mark 13:11
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Luke 12
11And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: 12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

 

[AndyPG]

I think what the Church was saying was that all three are different persons, but still all one God.

I was quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church there, but sometimes if you aren't used to it, it is hard to read and interpret. This is from EWTN, they are a global Catholic TV network with one of the largest library databases when it comes to Catholicism. Here is the Catholic view of the Trinity in Q&A format, it might be easier to understand:

25. How many Persons are there in God?

In God there are three divine Persons--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

(a) Unaided by divine revelation, the human mind could not know the existence of the Blessed Trinity because it is a supernatural mystery.3 Even after God has revealed the existence of the Blessed Trinity, we cannot understand it fully. When we believe, on the word of God, that there are three Persons in one God, we do not believe that three Persons are one Person, or that three gods are one God; this would be a contradiction.

26. Is the Father God?

The Father is God and the first Person of the Blessed Trinity.

(a) The first Person of the Blessed Trinity is called the Father because from all eternity He begets the second Person, His only-begotten Son.

(b) God the Father is called the first Person not because He is greater or older than the other two Persons, but because He is unbegotten.

27. Is the Son God?

The Son is God and the second Person of the Blessed Trinity.

(a) The second Person of the Blessed Trinity is called the Son because from all eternity, He is the only begotten of the Father. Proceeding from the Father, the Son is called the Divine Word or the Wisdom of the Father.

28. Is the Holy Ghost God?

The Holy Ghost is God and the third Person of the Blessed Trinity.

(a) The third Person of the Blessed Trinity is called the Holy Ghost because from all eternity He is breathed forth, as it were, by the Father and the Son. Proceeding from the Father and the Son, He is called the Gift or Love of the Father and the Son.

(b) The word "Ghost" applied to the third Person means "Spirit."

29. What do we mean by the Blessed Trinity?

By the Blessed Trinity we mean one and the same God in three divine Persons.

30. Are the three divine Persons really distinct from one another?

The three divine Persons are really distinct from one another.

(a) Although the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are distinct Persons, they are not distinct in nature. The nature of the Father is entirely the nature of the Son; and the nature of the Father and the Son is entirely the nature of the Holy Ghost.

31. Are the three divine Persons perfectly equal to one another?

The three divine Persons are perfectly equal to one another, because all are one and the same God.

(a) No one of the three Persons precedes the others in time or in power, but all are equally eternal and all-powerful because they have the same divine nature.

32. How are the three divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, one and the same God?

The three divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because all have one and the same divine nature.

(a) Because the three divine Persons have one and the same divine nature, they have the same perfections and the same external works are produced by them. But in order that we may better know the three divine Persons, certain perfections and works are attributed to each Person; for example, omnipotence and the works of omnipotence, such as creation, to the Father; wisdom and the works of wisdom, such as enlightenment, to the Son, love and the works of love, such as sanctification, to the Holy Ghost.

33. Can we fully understand how the three divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God?

We cannot fully understand how the three divine Persons, though really distinct from one another, are one and the same God because this is a supernatural mystery.

34. What is a supernatural mystery?

A supernatural mystery is a truth which we cannot fully understand, but which we firmly believe because we have God's word for it.

(a) In addition to those truths which can be attained by man's natural reason, there are certain mysteries hidden in God which we cannot know without divine revelation, but which we must believe because God has revealed them. Divine mysteries by their very nature are far above the power of human understanding and even when revealed and accepted on faith they remain obscure during our life on earth. To understand these things fully, a finite mind would have to comprehend the infinite.

(b) In heaven there will be a fuller understanding of these mysteries, but never an infinite comprehension of them.

It is reasonable to believe supernatural mysteries revealed by God because He can neither deceive nor be deceived. In our everyday life we believe many things on the word of human beings even though at times they deceive or are deceived.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

what are you on about now??? lol

What he is on about is that he tried to disengage, but distinct had to get the last dig. The hardest part of truly walking away from a disagreement is when the other party is sort of shouting at your back. His original post to you simply said that you both needed to just leave the disagreement that existed on the table and that perhaps some day, starting afresh, you would come to understand one another. Just let it go and both of you allow the Holy Spirit to do the rest in your hearts.

 

[charisenexcelcis]

The only ones who call Oneness "Heretics" are those who broke away from the Original Church. Paul warned the Original Church about "wolves in Sheep's Clothing" and the exodus had already begun by those who did not want to adhere to The Original Gospel, so they broke off and started their own Churches where The Trinity, and Non-Holiness standards, and Baptizing everyone in a Triune formula which the Original Apostles never, ever taught. Jesus name Baptism was the only Baptismal formulae ever taught; Trinity was never preached or taught in The First Century Church, nor was allowing people to act Un-Holy and not follow the Apostolic Doctrine. THAT is why, we see so many churches today. Everybody is Saved, we are all saved by Grace nothing more needed,

OSAS, whatever tickled your ears the break a way churches have it. The Mainline Christian Religions are like Religious Show Business with all the pomp and ceremony borrowed from The Jewish Religion nd Paganism. Not to mention The Babylonian Mystery Religion in full force today.

You see this Consumed? Does this warrent your correction as well?

 

[SantoSubito]

You see this Consumed? Does this warrent your correction as well?

I have to agree with you here. I would also like to point out how he called Catholicism the "Babylonian Mystery Religion".

 

[phil36]

I agree Char, You have been nothing but courteous. The problem I see with consumeds posts are that although they talk about love, and sound right, they do nothing for correcting erroneous/heretical theology (proper ( who God is)). This actually, does a diservice to the truth of scripture rather than the opposite. It is not that we do not love those who hold these heretical views, it has more to do with the views being espoused and very hard attacks on truth. So is it love not to correct something that is heresy? No! Infact, it is misplaced love if you do not correct as the church has always done and more recently when the Assemblies of God kicked out those adherents of 'oneness'.

The facts are that the pentecostals regard the 'oneness group' as like a cult, the church (body of Christ) has always viewed 'oneness' as heresy. They do not originate with Apostolic teaching or authority even though they claim this ,for the heresy never arose until much later. Oneness adherents often get this confused, they say that the Trinity was not believed until a church council, however this is false, as the council would not have been needed if it had not been for heretical views and not just the oneness 'Monarchianism' heresy.

So yes we do love those who adhere to heresy as we love those who are in darkness, but, we should aslo be mindful of those who are not telling the truth especially about God.

Another point to take careful note of is, do we fellowship with those who confess to be in Christ yet clearly believe different? Paul warned about this, He was talking to a specific p[roblem in the Corinthian church, however, the principle is the same.. Lets remember, that the Assemblies of God (Pentecostals) broke from fellowship with oneness adherents' for this very fact.

We have to be careful not confuse love with correction out of love, sometimes a rebuke with the rod, like Paul had to!


Blessings

Phil