1 Cor 13:10 - What is perfection?

[posthuman]

The context as well as the Greek word teleios translated as "perfect" mean that it is a reference to a complete Bible. Since the NT was written without punctuation or paragraphs, we should treat verses 11-13 as a separate (but related) topic.

trying to figure out what part of the context you think has to do with canon of scripture - because he says 'we know in part' in v.9 is the only thing i see that one could obliquely say refers to the Bible?
but then up to at least v.12 is not a separate context, because he repeats the same phrase/idea/concept there saying 'now I know in part' and it seems clear that the time he looks towards as 'then face to face' when he will know fully is when He returns for us, not after the apostles last epistles - unless he would mean by it the point in time of his own physical demise, knowing that 'the race would be run' in which case it's conceptually only his own epistles we're talking about, not scripture in toto.. ? right?

 

[RickyZ]

I think "perfection" is a poor rendition of the Greek teleios within the context and considering where the "variant" teleios comes from - telos.

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G5046 teleios tel'-i-os

from G5056;

complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness.

KJV: of full age, man, perfect.
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G5056 telos tel'-os

from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal);

properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely)
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We know that both Paul and Peter were looking for the end of the age in their lifetime:

1 Peter 4:7 The end ( telos ) of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.

1 Cor 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends ( telos ) of the ages have come.

Bearing in mind that the end was near when they both wrote, the logical and contextual conclusion is that Paul was saying that when the consummation/end comes the "partial" will be done way.

1 Cor 13:10 but when the perfect ( teleios ) comes, the partial will be done away.

Thank you.

Go back to the beginning. The whooole concept of a Messiah was to restore all that was lost in man's fall. Every. Single. Thing. having to do with the Messiah/Christ leads back to that one final point. Jesus really only has one job, to restore everything that was lost in the fall of man. Until that happens, every-thing-else is but part of a work in progress. Including the compilation of Canon. It is but a step in the journey, not the journey itself.

Roger, as always, you crack me up. But thanks for sticking up for your side and lending to the debate.

 

[notuptome]

Thank you.

Go back to the beginning. The whooole concept of a Messiah was to restore all that was lost in man's fall. Every. Single. Thing. having to do with the Messiah/Christ leads back to that one final point. Jesus really only has one job, to restore everything that was lost in the fall of man. Until that happens, every-thing-else is but part of a work in progress. Including the compilation of Canon. It is but a step in the journey, not the journey itself.

Roger, as always, you crack me up. But thanks for sticking up for your side and lending to the debate.

You have never been one to allow the truth to interfere with a bias.

Jesus said It is finished. Work completed. Redemption done. Awaiting only final glorification with Christ. Every practical application of the perfect in 1 Cor 13 is the cannon of scripture. Being a Christian demands that we love our fellow man. That includes those who hate us and despitefully use us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Hey! Everybody... PTL!
Here's what I believe:
1 Cor 13:10 "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." The reason: "that which is perfect," is not talking about the NT scriptures, but rather about Jesus; is because: 1 Cor 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: for now we know in part, but then shall I know even as also I am known." So its Jesus that we'll see face to face and not the NT scriptures. And when we do see Jesus, we'll no longer have to study to show ourselves approved, for then we'll know as we ourselves are known. To meet the criteria of: "knowing even as also we are known," the receiving of the NT scriptures would have had to put an end to all doctrinal differences from that time onward by the faithful; because our knowing in part will have been done away when the NT arrived. When Jesus comes we'll be in our resurrection bodies, seeing him face to face, as he is for we shall be like him.

I am usually careful in putting a face of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ as if he was a man as us.

Job 9:32-33 informs us God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly as that seen infallible interpreter as a mediator set between God and man called a daysman . And also in 2 Corinthians 5 we are informed as new creatures not knowing what kind of body we will receive (neither male nor female Jew nor gentile) it would seem to confirm that God is not a man (a creation) as us. The temporal appearance he used as a outward demonstration, In that form we know him no more forever more . The veil is rent indicating he did come in the flesh.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2 Corinthians 5:16-17

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; That dark glass would seem to indicate the parables that hide the spiritual understanding the mysteries revealed to us , concealed from natural unconverted man, as the signified language of God called the hidden manna in the book of Revelation.

Dark seems to be used that way as a contrast to the light of His word . I would offer parables can help to establish spiritual truths

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.


And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Luke 8:9-11


But then face to face: for then they knew in part (the perfect had not come), but then shall I know even as also I am known."


When the last amen came, the perfect came .

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.Revelation 22:21

 

[Dino246]

I am usually careful in putting a face of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ as if he was a man as us.

Either there is a misspelled word in that sentence, or it is meaningless. Perhaps you meant, "a face on the Holy Spirit"?

Job 9:32-33 informs us God is not a man as us and neither is there a fleshly as that seen infallible interpreter as a mediator set between God and man called a daysman .

There is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Jesus Christ. (1 Timothy 2:5)

Scripture is crystal-clear on this matter.

The temporal appearance he used as a outward demonstration, In that form we know him no more forever more . The veil is rent indicating he did come in the flesh.

The veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom upon the death of Jesus on the cross. The clear indication is that the old system had ended. It has nothing directly to do with Jesus having come "in the flesh".

 

[Dino246]

In the context of this particular debate, I would suggest that those who hold that the completed canon of Scripture is the "perfect" to which Paul refers might be happier with a travel guide to a foreign country than with actually traveling there.