Who Is This Jesus?

bluto · Jul 31, 2018

Dem said:

Well dem, you reasoning skills are astounding when you said, "If God wanted us to use the term God the son you would find the term in the bible but nowhere in the bible is the term used." I don't find the word "Bible" in the Bible should we all just forget about reading the Bible? I don't see the word, "Monotheism" in the Bible which means that God is one so what do you suggest we do?

I know what I'll I do dem? The next time I meet the editors of the various Bibles for lunch I will tell them my friend "dem" is unsatisfied with your work because you have left out key words in the Bible?

Did you know that certain "characteristics" go with the subject of a person? What do I mean? The Jews have what is called "Idioms." In fact, all languages have "Idioms." What's and Idiom? A group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words.

One of those idioms the Jews have is what is known as the "son of" idiom. For example in the OT we see idioms like the "Son of valor" at 1 Samuel 14:52 which simply means a brave man. How about the "Son of murder at 2 Kings 6:32 denotes a murderer. And here's a common one, Sons of the prophets" denots sons that are prophets.

In the NT we have at Luke 10:6, "Son of peace" which refers to a peaceful person. Guess who was the "Son of perdition at john 17:12 and 2 Thess 2:3? This idiom is the "lost one." I'll give you his initials as a hint, JI.

What about Jesus referring to Himself on numerous occasions as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God." This particular expression clearly eshibits the use of the word "son" to show the possession of a certain naute. Number 23:19 you can read for yourself, you know where it starts out, "God is not a man." So in like manner the "Son of God" idiom when applied to Jesus Christ, means possessing the nature of, displaying the qualities or characteristics of God.

So when Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" He was talking about having a human nature on His mother Mary's side because she's a human being by nature. When Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of God" He was talking about having the same nature as His Father which would be Deity. Jesus Christ is the one and only person that has two natures. One on His mother's side and one on His Fathers side.

Now dem, you can prove me wrong on this if you can give me an example (just one example) of a son that does not share the same nature as its father. This is a universal law. This is also why I can "Biblically" say "God the Son." Lastly, I suggest you learn something about that word you love to use, "image." Do a study on Hebrews 1:3. And don't come back and tell me the "lame" argument that "Well an image is not the same as the real person."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

pottersclay · Jul 31, 2018

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 31, 2018

Noose said:

Since Jesus is also called "the Son of God" repeatedly. then "God the Son" is perfectly valid. As would be God the Word.

Noose · Aug 1, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

Not really, we know where the phrase 'God the son' comes from, it is not valid and it doesn't mean the son of God. Adam was called the son of God but i can't even imagine him being called 'God the son'.
God the word is also not a thing.

And, the right hand of God can not be turned into 'God the right hand'- it doesn't work like that.

p_rehbein · Aug 1, 2018

Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(establishes who the Creator is)

1:2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
(establishes the presence of the Spirit. If the Spirit were simply God and not more, then it should read "God moved upon, or....He moved upon...")

1:3) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
(establishes the Creation Power)

1:26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
1 Thessalonians 5 23) And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(establishes the truth of the Triune God and triune man as taught by Paul)

John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(establishes who Jesus is.....the Living Word)

1:2) The same was in the beginning with God.
(establishes that Jesus IS, and always has/will be)

1:3) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
(establishes that Jesus is the Creation Power spoken of in Gen. 1:3 and others)

John 14:9) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30) I and my Father are one.
John 8:58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
(Jesus declares who He is)

John 14:16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(establishes the Holy Spirit and His indwelling presence)

14:18) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you......20) At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.... 26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name
(establishes the Trinity......Father, Son, Spirit)

p_rehbein · Aug 1, 2018

Dem said:

I would suggest you be very careful with your statements.............

Matthew 12.31) Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Endoscopy · Aug 1, 2018

Noose said:

The Great Commission answers this issue. "name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

Matthew 28 NIV
The Great Commission
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

AMPC
The Great Commission
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted [that it was really He]. 18 Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations [help the people to learn of Me, believe in Me, and obey My words], baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always [remaining with you perpetually—regardless of circumstance, and on every occasion], even to the end of the age.”

Hungry · Aug 1, 2018

Is it the word God that has everybody in disagreement? The word was often translated from elohim, which means gods. Because so many people are trying to fit monotheism into Christianity, they use the words out of context. Ignoring that there is more than one Heavenly being makes understanding the Bible impossible. There are in fact gods (devine beings), we just aren’t to worship them. We worship the Almighty God, Creator, Father. Yeshua is His Son.

Nehemiah6 · Aug 1, 2018

Noose said:

Believe what you want to but you should not be wasting everyone' s time quibbling over this. And Adam has nothing to do with this either.

p_rehbein · Aug 1, 2018

Matthew 16:13) When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

bluto · Aug 1, 2018

Noose said:

So when Thomas declared Jesus Christ his "Lord and God" then according to you Jesus cannot be God the Son? Is that what your are telling us? And btw, Adam was not the son of God in the same way Jesus Christ is. Besides, why did the Jews at John 10:33 say the following? "The Jews answered Him/Jesus, For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because YOU BEING A MAN, MAKE YOURSELF OUT GOD." How do you explain this noose?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Noose · Aug 1, 2018

bluto said:

Nope.
The response came when someone suggested that God the son is the same things as the son of God- i was just pointing out an obvious error. There's still no such thing as a God the son, a phrase coined to prop up trinity. The son of God means something, we are given the right to be called sons of God and not God the son.

7seasrekeyed · Aug 1, 2018

p_rehbein said:

I got that

too many responses seem like attempts to diminish Christ

honestly? the conclusion I come to when I think about certain of the responses, is 'no wonder the church is in the state that it is in'

Jesus is not God. Jesus is God and there is no Trinity. the Holy Spirit is an it or actually God.

and all this questioning only results in less of Jesus and more of the person 'being in charge'

and that's an over simplification of the results of all this questioning who Jesus really is and many trying to make Him over in their own image and understanding

7seasrekeyed · Aug 1, 2018

Hungry said:

'Elohim' is used over 2500 times in the Hebrew scriptures (Tanakh) and means far more than just 'God' as we would say in English.

the way the word is used for 'other gods' actually means judges and/or human rulers

it would probably be better or more accurate to think of Elohim as a plural of majesty rather than a plural of 'gods'

there is also a singular form of Elohim that is also used in scripture ... 'El' and used for both God the Father and God the Son. The Holy Spirit is also called El

so actually the word translated as 'God' does not have to mean plural

the Trinity, as we know, is implied throughout scripture, but not as a plurality of gods, but rather as One

so people stumble over what they cannot comprehend

I don't know how people think they can really wrap their heads around God anyway as He states that His thoughts and ways are much higher than ours are

I mean what is the point in worshipping someone who is just like us?

but I digress

Dem · Aug 1, 2018

GracethroughfaithinChrist said:

So was the flesh God or that which dwelled in the flesh God
God in the image dwelled with us and walked with us the flesh was not god and there is no god the son anywhere in the bible. yes his name shall be called all the above BECAUSE GOD THE FATHER DWELLED IN HIM.

Dem · Aug 1, 2018

7seasrekeyed said:

you got that right that is why the trinity is a false doctrine created about 200 years after the church started should just stick with what the bible says HE IS THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN not god the son and definitely no god the holy ghost just the almighty's holy spirit that is in all.

bluto · Aug 1, 2018

p_rehbein said:

Well, yesd and no! You did ask the question, "Who is Jesus" and then went on to quote verses praising Jesus, I get that. However, your last words were, "God the Son." I get that as well and I also agree with it. But, noose came along and challenged the "God the Son" comments and off to the races we go. I for one am not going to sit here and not confron or challenge somebody, especially on this issue. To me it is now "fair game" to respond.

I have a thread on how "The Trinity Doctrine is Biblical." All of a sudden the topic got hijacked and turned into the topic of water baptism. What is one to do? This is the nature of debate especially when your dealing with many people responding about different things. If it was a one to one debate that would be a different matter and both parties would be required to stick to the topic of the debate. Anyway, keep up the good work.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

7seasrekeyed · Aug 1, 2018

Dem said:

uh huh

well you would be one of the people I was referring to

p_rehbein · Aug 2, 2018

bluto said:

Perfectly fine with me for you to challenge any and all who deny the Holy Trinity, for it is the FOUNDATION of the Christian Faith.
Odd how people can read and not understand........but Christ said it would be this way.......

Matthew 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Nehemiah6 · Aug 2, 2018

Dem said:

No. Just stupid. Why would anyone without an agenda try to interpret it that way?

Who Is This Jesus?

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