John Chapter 3 REFUTES Five Point Calvinism

[notuptome]

You seem to have forgotten that Christ said, "those who endure to the end shall be saved" so it sounds like we need to endure and remain faithful to the end, to be saved. So salvation is a life long process and you are saved at the very end. See the Roman Catholic Church had a point when they proclaimed that it's not good for private individuals to study the Bible, because we end up with all kinds of wild ideas.

The priests said, the Bible should be left in their hands only. They warned that all kinds of Cults and Sects would arise out of private interpretation of the Bible. Our Church teaches us to follow our Pastor, he is the Shepherd and we are the Sheep. He is responsible to teach us what all the scriptures mean, God called him to that position. His knowledge of the scriptures is mind blowing, he would make everyone here look like school kids.

While Jesus did say that He did not mean it to apply to believers. It is prophecy to Israel and is specific to enduring to the end of the tribulation. Those who live through the tribulation will see Christ descend from the clouds and they will believe on Him and be saved.

Salvation has been and always will be an event where the Holy Spirit baptizes a man into the body of Christ. Jesus baptized the disciples in the upper room in John 20:22.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The whole chapter is under the context of Romans

As it is written:......“There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands;There is none who seeks after God. Romans 3

God must do the first works and give us the hearing of His faith as it is written before we can understand and then seek after him who has no form

Remember not all Israel is born again Israel as the bride of Christ, the church . Just as a outward Jew pertaining to the flesh of a Jew who does not have the born again Spirit of Christ do not belong to Him. God is not respecter of a persons flesh .As new creatures we are to n know no man after the flresh (the things seen ) we walk by faith not by sight.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.



11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Spirit of Christ is the qualifier of those who hear the gospel and believe the Holy Spirit .Old Testament as well as the New.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.2 Corinthians 4:7

God has to do the first work of regenerating us (making us to have spiritual life) by putting his Spirit within us while we were still dead (spiritually dead) in sins unable to hear and respond to spiritual things. Eph 2:5. 2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost--This harmonizes with 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/3-1.htm

"And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as fleshly--as to infants in Christ." 1Cor3:1blb


Were these people saved or not saved persons?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

https://biblehub.com/text/1_corinthians/3-1.htm

"And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual, but as fleshly--as to infants in Christ." 1Cor3:1blb


Were these people saved or not saved persons?

Saved

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Agreed.

"which also we speak, not in words taught of human wisdom, but in those taught of the Spirit, communicating spiritual things by spiritual means." 1Cor2:13

 

[reneweddaybyday]

We believe that Calvin explained the Gospel better than anyone else in history, so of' course we agree with him and we preach from the same point of view.

Wow ... and here all these many years I've always believed Scripture "explains the Gospel better than anyone else in history" ... even your beloved Calvin.

 

[garee]

God has to do the first work of regenerating us (making us to have spiritual life) by putting his Spirit within us while we were still dead (spiritually dead) in sins unable to hear and respond to spiritual things. Eph 2:5. 2 Cor 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost--This harmonizes with 1 Cor 2:14.

Thanks Great way to represent the gospel

 

[Slayer]

Wow ... and here all these many years I've always believed Scripture "explains the Gospel better than anyone else in history" ... even your beloved Calvin.

The problem with scripture is, it's encrypted code is very hard to break and it can be understood in 40,000 ways. The old Roman Catholics may have a point in not allowing private interpretation, they knew it would lead to all kinds of heresy. And now we have 40,000 Sects and Cults, all claiming they just believe scripture.

God appointed Pastors to lead us flock of sheep, we should not assume the office of leader or Bible scholar and appoint ourselves as the final authority of scripture. That is being proud and arrogant.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The problem with scripture is, it's encrypted code is very hard to break and it can be understood in 40,000 ways. The old Roman Catholics may have a point in not allowing private interpretation, they knew it would lead to all kinds of heresy. And now we have 40,000 Sects and Cults, all claiming they just believe scripture.

There is no "problem with scripture".

1 Corinthians 3:

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Laying anything upon the foundation -- calvinism included -- is not utilizing the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder.

God appointed Pastors to lead us flock of sheep, we should not assume the office of leader or Bible scholar and appoint ourselves as the final authority of scripture. That is being proud and arrogant.

It is not "being proud and arrogant" to speak God's Word to others.

What is "proud and arrogant" is to replace the Word of God with the word of man -- calvinism included.

 

[Slayer]

There is no "problem with scripture".

1 Corinthians 3:

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


Laying anything upon the foundation -- calvinism included -- is not utilizing the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder.





It is not "being proud and arrogant" to speak God's Word to others.

What is "proud and arrogant" is to replace the Word of God with the word of man -- calvinism included.

To say there is no problem with scripture is to ignore the fact that there are 40,000 different views, hence the 40,000 denominations.

Before you say, it's not arrogant to speak the Gods Word to others ask do you know the Word so you can rightly speak it. This is the problem, everyone is right in their own minds but we are all opposed and nobody wants to capitulate.

Our pastor tells us that He has been appointed by God to lead us sheep and interpret the scripture for us, he said we are not all called to be teachers and to tell others what the scriptures mean. That's the job of the leaders, we are followers so we shouldn't assume any authority for ourselves. It must be given to us from above.

The Bible is extremely complicated, people study it their whole lives and they still haven't even touched the sides. So we are kidding ourselves if we think the Bible is simple to understand, it's actually the most complicated thing known to man.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

To say there is no problem with scripture is to ignore the fact that there are 40,000 different views, hence the 40,000 denominations.

And you believe the problem is Scripture?????

You do not believe 1 Corinthians 1-3 which tells us that the strife and division is the result of men following other men rather than following the Lord Jesus Christ?

Before you say, it's not arrogant to speak the Gods Word to others ask do you know the Word so you can rightly speak it. This is the problem, everyone is right in their own minds but we are all opposed and nobody wants to capitulate.

So when God tells us in 2 Cor 5 that He has given to us the ministry of reconciliation and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation, you think that is directed toward pastors?

When Eph 4 tells us the gift ministries given by Christ to the church for the building up of the body of believers for the work of the ministry is not true? And that all the work of ministry falls on the shoulders of the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher?

When 1 Peter 3 tells us to be ready always to give an answer to those who asks us of the reason of the hope that is in us, we can't answer them and we have to tell them to come to church with us to find out?

Our pastor tells us that He has been appointed by God to lead us sheep and interpret the scripture for us, he said we are not all called to be teachers and to tell others what the scriptures mean. That's the job of the leaders, we are followers so we shouldn't assume any authority for ourselves.

Wow ... sad.

So you do not read God's Word on your own? The Bible is a closed book until you go to church to have the pastor tell you what the Bible says?

Here is what Scripture says about the Bereans:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The Bereans would go to the synagogue to hear Paul teach and then they would go home and search the Scriptures daily to confirm whether what Paul taught was true according to Scripture.

The Bible is extremely complicated, people study it their whole lives and they still haven't even touched the sides. So we are kidding ourselves if we think the Bible is simple to understand, it's actually the most complicated thing known to man.

So sad that you believe this about the Bible. All the manmade doctrines piled on top of the simplicity of Scripture are what is complicated.

That is not to say that our walk in this life is easy. We face things in this life which are nothing but distractions to get us to take our eyes off of the Lord Jesus Christ. God has given us His Word to help us so we don't get tricked. But we've got people telling us we can't understand God's Word so don't even bother trying to read it. Meanwhile we've got God telling us to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15). Who are we going to believe?

 

[UnderGrace]

The problem with scripture is, it's encrypted code is very hard to break and it can be understood in 40,000 ways. The old Roman Catholics may have a point in not allowing private interpretation, they knew it would lead to all kinds of heresy. And now we have 40,000 Sects and Cults, all claiming they just believe scripture.

God appointed Pastors to lead us flock of sheep, we should not assume the office of leader or Bible scholar and appoint ourselves as the final authority of scripture. That is being proud and arrogant.

The RC Church was absolutely wrong, their teachings were THE heresy, keeping the bible locked way perpetuated THEIR heresy.

As well the scripture that states "no prophesy is of any private interpretation" if read in context is Peter stating that the writers of scripture were moved by the Holy Spirit not by their own private thoughts.

 

[Slayer]

And you believe the problem is Scripture?????

You do not believe 1 Corinthians 1-3 which tells us that the strife and division is the result of men following other men rather than following the Lord Jesus Christ?





So when God tells us in 2 Cor 5 that He has given to us the ministry of reconciliation and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation, you think that is directed toward pastors?

When Eph 4 tells us the gift ministries given by Christ to the church for the building up of the body of believers for the work of the ministry is not true? And that all the work of ministry falls on the shoulders of the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher?

When 1 Peter 3 tells us to be ready always to give an answer to those who asks us of the reason of the hope that is in us, we can't answer them and we have to tell them to come to church with us to find out?





Wow ... sad.

So you do not read God's Word on your own? The Bible is a closed book until you go to church to have the pastor tell you what the Bible says?

Here is what Scripture says about the Bereans:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The Bereans would go to the synagogue to hear Paul teach and then they would go home and search the Scriptures daily to confirm whether what Paul taught was true according to Scripture.





So sad that you believe this about the Bible. All the manmade doctrines piled on top of the simplicity of Scripture are what is complicated.

That is not to say that our walk in this life is easy. We face things in this life which are nothing but distractions to get us to take our eyes off of the Lord Jesus Christ. God has given us His Word to help us so we don't get tricked. But we've got people telling us we can't understand God's Word so don't even bother trying to read it. Meanwhile we've got God telling us to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15). Who are we going to believe?

Of' course we are like the Bereans and we are encouraged to search the scriptures to see if our pastor is telling us the truth. But the Bible never teaches private interpretation, notice how it teaches them to listen to a man appointed by God and then go away and read more about the subject to edify you more.

Scripture is not simple, and everyone applies it to their understanding so we all end up with our own version of it. Everyone claims that other have added their man made doctrines to it while they do exactly the same thing.

 

[Slayer]

The RC Church was absolutely wrong, their teachings were THE heresy, keeping the bible locked way perpetuated THEIR heresy.

As well the scripture that states "no prophesy is of any private interpretation" if read in context is Peter stating that the writers of scripture were moved by the Holy Spirit not by their own private thoughts.

You can't say the RC Church was absolutely wrong, we all came from it and we adhere to most of it's teaching to this day.

The Church should never allow it's sheep to all wonder off into deep theological issues, they are not equipped to handle them and they will get lost in their own fallen wisdom. Sheep were never created to lead themselves, using their own wisdom that's why God appointed Shepherds to lead us and teach us the scriptures.

The problem is we have too many self appointed shepherds, going off in all directions and taking positions of ignorance and holding them up as being Biblically correct. I have witnessed it here many times

 

[UnderGrace]

You can't say the RC Church was absolutely wrong, we all came from it and we adhere to most of it's teaching to this day.

The Church should never allow it's sheep to all wonder off into deep theological issues, they are not equipped to handle them and they will get lost in their own fallen wisdom. Sheep were never created to lead themselves, using their own wisdom that's why God appointed Shepherds to lead us and teach us the scriptures.

The problem is we have too many self appointed shepherds, going off in all directions and taking positions of ignorance and holding them up as being Biblically correct. I have witnessed it here many times

Wow you just don't give up. Most Reformed people do not like being compared to Catholicism, I appreciate your honesty.

Did your pastor teach you this?

 

[Slayer]

Wow you just don't give up. Most Reformed people do not like being compared to Catholicism, I appreciate your honesty.

Did your pastor teach you this?

I can't believe I have to educate you on basic common history. All Christianity comes from Roman Catholicism, you wouldn't have Christianity without the Roman Catholic Church who gave us Christianity. I can't believe that you are ignorant of that fact.

 

[jameen]

God let humans choose either good or evil. so if he is saved or damned, blessed or cursed depends on his actions he chose and did.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

there is no such thing as humans who are destined to go to heaven or destined to go to hell.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Of' course we are like the Bereans and we are encouraged to search the scriptures to see if our pastor is telling us the truth. But the Bible never teaches private interpretation, notice how it teaches them to listen to a man appointed by God and then go away and read more about the subject to edify you more.

We are to be Berean-like in every aspect of our lives. We have to check everything we hear against Scripture:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


Here, we are instructed to test all things, hold fast that which is good. Whatever is not "good" we are to let go.

Scripture is not simple, and everyone applies it to their understanding so we all end up with our own version of it. Everyone claims that other have added their man made doctrines to it while they do exactly the same thing.

That is such a lie. Do you not trust God?

Philippians 3:

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.


God shall reveal to us when we are straying from Truth.

It's so weird that you trust so much in God's "election" but you do not trust Him to reveal His Word to you.

 

[jameen]

I can't believe I have to educate you on basic common history. All Christianity comes from Roman Catholicism, you wouldn't have Christianity without the Roman Catholic Church who gave us Christianity. I can't believe that you are ignorant of that fact.

What you said is debatable. both the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church claim to be the original Christian Church tracing back to First Century AD.

and some churches aside from Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church were founded by early Christian missionaries of the First Century AD such as the Ethiopian and Coptic Churches and these churches are not controlled by either the Vatican or any Orthodox Patriarchs.

 

[Slayer]

We are to be Berean-like in every aspect of our lives. We have to check everything we hear against Scripture:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


Here, we are instructed to test all things, hold fast that which is good. Whatever is not "good" we are to let go.





That is such a lie. Do you not trust God?

Philippians 3:

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.


God shall reveal to us when we are straying from Truth.

It's so weird that you trust so much in God's "election" but you do not trust Him to reveal His Word to you.

I'm emphasizing the fact that you will rarely find two people who agree with everything about Gods word. Even within my Church we have people who don't agree with everything that is being taught. You have to face the fact, that Gods Word is such that it can be understood in many different ways by many different people.

You can't act like a Nazi and claim that your understanding is absolutely correct, all you can do is say "in my humble opinion" I believe the scripture is saying X,Y&Z and you need to allow others to believe it their own way just as you expect us to allow you the liberty to practice your religion the way you understand scripture is teaching you to do.

We must allow everyone to believe what they want about scripture, there is no hard and fast way to prove you have it right. So lets just agree that nobody really knows the whole truth, all we can do is use our God given wisdom to understand them the best we can.

We are not judged according to our knowledge of scripture, we will be judged according to our deeds, God is not impressed with your knowledge of the scriptures, He looks at how you live the life He has given you.