OSAS= House Built on Sand
- Thread starter Sabbatismos
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
In the church at Sardis was a group of people who were obviously not genuine believers. Even though this church had a reputation of being alive, Jesus wasn’t fooled. “You are dead. Wake up!”
This church may have had a good reputation, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion. There were many tares among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30). To “wake up” in their case means to start paying attention to their need of salvation, to stop being careless about their heart’s condition before God.
Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers who attend church with believers? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. There are those who call Jesus Lord that prophesy, cast out demons and perform many "alleged" wonderful works who are not genuine believers. Christ NEVER knew them (Matthew 7:21-23). It’s not about attending church or or being a make believer that counts, it’s whether you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation that ultimately counts (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 26:18).
In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections that pertain to unbelievers or that warn the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception. How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment. Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” Yet the church at Sardis wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints. We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By being clothed in our own filthy rags of righteous (Isaiah 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10; Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9).
How about a little context. Ephesians 5:11 - Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Reminds me of what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
In this case here, believers have an exhortation to wake up from spiritual slumber and put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. Believers need to make the best use of their time to do just what we have been called to do. Nothing is mentioned here in Romans 13:11 about them being dead or their deeds being unfinished in the sight of my God or to repent or a warning to wake up or Jesus will come like a thief, and they will not know at what time He will come to them.
Reminds me of Luke 22:45 - When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46 and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.” The disciples need to wake up and pray, but that does not mean they were lost.
In Romans 13:12, we read - "The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light." Now the term "night" here refers metaphorically to spiritual darkness and moral darkness. We live in a time of the night when the prince of the power of the air, the prince of darkness, controls this world. Children of light live in a time when darkness is all around us.
In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. *All genuine believers are "overcomers!"
Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian at any given moment. They read into it like this: "If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!”
The one who “overcomes” is anyone who is born again (1 John 5:4). The overcomer will receive a white garment (a token of righteousness), he will never have his name removed from the book of life (which is a promise of eternal security). Praise God!
This church may have had a good reputation, but they were spiritually lifeless. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion. There were many tares among the wheat (Matthew 13:24-30). To “wake up” in their case means to start paying attention to their need of salvation, to stop being careless about their heart’s condition before God.
Are you surprised to learn that there are unbelievers who attend church with believers? Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian. There are those who call Jesus Lord that prophesy, cast out demons and perform many "alleged" wonderful works who are not genuine believers. Christ NEVER knew them (Matthew 7:21-23). It’s not about attending church or or being a make believer that counts, it’s whether you have repented and placed your faith in Jesus Christ for salvation that ultimately counts (Acts 3:19; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 26:18).
In many of the letters to the New Testament churches there are sections that pertain to unbelievers or that warn the saints about the influence of unbelievers among them. The letter to the church at Sardis is no exception. How do we know for sure there were some unbelievers in the church at Sardis? Because Jesus said they were dead and in danger of judgment. Jesus warned the Sardisians, “if you don’t wake up, I will come like a thief.” Yet the church at Sardis wasn’t a completely lost cause for among the sinners were a “few” saints. We know this because Jesus clearly distinguishes a second group within the church who had not “soiled their clothes” and who were considered “worthy.” How do we soil our clothes? By being clothed in our own filthy rags of righteous (Isaiah 64:6). What makes a person worthy in God’s eyes? Being clothed with Christ and his righteousness (Is 61:10; Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9).
How about a little context. Ephesians 5:11 - Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
Reminds me of what Paul said in 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
In this case here, believers have an exhortation to wake up from spiritual slumber and put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof. Believers need to make the best use of their time to do just what we have been called to do. Nothing is mentioned here in Romans 13:11 about them being dead or their deeds being unfinished in the sight of my God or to repent or a warning to wake up or Jesus will come like a thief, and they will not know at what time He will come to them.
Reminds me of Luke 22:45 - When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, 46 and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.” The disciples need to wake up and pray, but that does not mean they were lost.
In Romans 13:12, we read - "The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light." Now the term "night" here refers metaphorically to spiritual darkness and moral darkness. We live in a time of the night when the prince of the power of the air, the prince of darkness, controls this world. Children of light live in a time when darkness is all around us.
In Revelation 3:5, we read - "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. *All genuine believers are "overcomers!"
Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian at any given moment. They read into it like this: "If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!”
The one who “overcomes” is anyone who is born again (1 John 5:4). The overcomer will receive a white garment (a token of righteousness), he will never have his name removed from the book of life (which is a promise of eternal security). Praise God!
The moon is visible at times during daytime but shines brightly during the night. So that scripture would be accurate.
ROFL
This issue is outside the Apostles Creed so it is agree to disagree. In point of fact I disagree with your assertion. As always you ignore the fact you have to take all verses on the subject in the Bible in context. I suggest you get a systematic theology book so you can look them all up. You just love to go off half cocked in ignorance on topics like this.
I see you love ignorance. Here is a section of the Canons of Dort. A basic document of the Reformed theology. I suggest you read the document and understand everything is supported by a lot of scripture. Here is the section you condemned. Read it carefully and try to refute it. I know where to look for the opposing view, do you? Have fun. Can't wait to see your refutation filled like this with scripture. You will really need a systematic theology book to do this. Have fun without one. The not as good alternative is Google.
II. UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
A. Arminian Position: God's election is based on man's foreseen faith. Before the foundation of the world, God chose certain individuals for salvation based on His foreseeing that they would, of their own free will, choose Christ.
B. Reformed Position: God's election is unconditional. God's choice of certain individuals for salvation was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, but was based solely in His good and sovereign will.
C. Scriptural Support for the Reformed Position:
1. God has an elect people whom He has chosen to grant salvation.
Deut.10:14 - Deut.10:15 (NKJ) 14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.15"The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.
Matt.24:22 - Matt.24:24 (NKJ) 22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matt.24:31 -
Matt.24:31 (NKJ) 31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John.6:37 - John.6:39 (NKJ) 37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John.6:65 - John.6:65 (NKJ) 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
John.17:9 - John.17:9 (NKJ) 9"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33 (NKJ) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, that He might be the firstbornamong many brethren.30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom.11:5 - Rom.11:5 (NKJ) 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Eph.1:4 - Eph.1:5 (NKJ) 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph.1:11 - Eph.1:11 (NKJ) 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
1Thes.1:4 - 1Thes.1:5 (NKJ) 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
1Thes.5:9 - 1Thes.5:9 (NKJ) 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Thes.2:13 - 2Thes.2:13 (NKJ) 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
1Pet.1:1 - 1Pet.1:2 (NKJ) I Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, insanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1Pet.2:8 - 1Pet.2:9 (NKJ) 8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
2. God's choice was not based upon any foreseen faith or good works.
Deut.7:6 - Deut.7:8 (NKJ) 6 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. 7 "The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 "but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Rom.9:11 - Rom.9:13 (NKJ) 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Rom.9:16 - Rom.9:16 (NKJ) 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
1Cor.1:27 - 1Cor.1:29 (NKJ) 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
2Tim.1:9 - 2Tim.1:9 (NKJ) 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
This issue is outside the Apostles Creed so it is agree to disagree. In point of fact I disagree with your assertion. As always you ignore the fact you have to take all verses on the subject in the Bible in context. I suggest you get a systematic theology book so you can look them all up. You just love to go off half cocked in ignorance on topics like this.
I see you love ignorance. Here is a section of the Canons of Dort. A basic document of the Reformed theology. I suggest you read the document and understand everything is supported by a lot of scripture. Here is the section you condemned. Read it carefully and try to refute it. I know where to look for the opposing view, do you? Have fun. Can't wait to see your refutation filled like this with scripture. You will really need a systematic theology book to do this. Have fun without one. The not as good alternative is Google.
II. UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION
A. Arminian Position: God's election is based on man's foreseen faith. Before the foundation of the world, God chose certain individuals for salvation based on His foreseeing that they would, of their own free will, choose Christ.
B. Reformed Position: God's election is unconditional. God's choice of certain individuals for salvation was not based on any foreseen response of obedience on their part, but was based solely in His good and sovereign will.
C. Scriptural Support for the Reformed Position:
1. God has an elect people whom He has chosen to grant salvation.
Deut.10:14 - Deut.10:15 (NKJ) 14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the Lord your God, also the earth with all that is in it.15"The Lord delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day.
Matt.24:22 - Matt.24:24 (NKJ) 22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.23 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.24 "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Matt.24:31 -
Matt.24:31 (NKJ) 31 "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
John.6:37 - John.6:39 (NKJ) 37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John.6:65 - John.6:65 (NKJ) 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
John.17:9 - John.17:9 (NKJ) 9"I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
Rom.8:28 - Rom.8:33 (NKJ) 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, that He might be the firstbornamong many brethren.30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
Rom.11:5 - Rom.11:5 (NKJ) 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Eph.1:4 - Eph.1:5 (NKJ) 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
Eph.1:11 - Eph.1:11 (NKJ) 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
1Thes.1:4 - 1Thes.1:5 (NKJ) 4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.
1Thes.5:9 - 1Thes.5:9 (NKJ) 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2Thes.2:13 - 2Thes.2:13 (NKJ) 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
1Pet.1:1 - 1Pet.1:2 (NKJ) I Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, insanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1Pet.2:8 - 1Pet.2:9 (NKJ) 8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
2. God's choice was not based upon any foreseen faith or good works.
Deut.7:6 - Deut.7:8 (NKJ) 6 "For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. 7 "The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 "but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Rom.9:11 - Rom.9:13 (NKJ) 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
Rom.9:16 - Rom.9:16 (NKJ) 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
1Cor.1:27 - 1Cor.1:29 (NKJ) 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.
2Tim.1:9 - 2Tim.1:9 (NKJ) 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
-
1
- Show all
Excuse me? It says "he that doeth evil hath not seen God".
It says "hath not seen God". Not "has maybe seen God before and now lost him again" as you try to interpret it. No, it says such a person has never, ever seen God.
No offense, but what part of that do you not understand?
Again, 1 John 3:15 can only be explained by using 1 John 2:19. It is not a true Christian that John was adressing here, rather a false convert, who does not meet the description of 1 John 3:3:
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Does "every man" mean "every man"? Yes or no?
Again:
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 2:25
While this Epistle was written to Christians only, John the Baptist definitely also was trying to identify whether somebody was honest at following and obeying Christ.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:23
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:10
And this definitely does NOT describe a true believer:
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:10
If somebody claims to have never sinned, then the truth and his word are not in him, and if Christ's word is not in somebody, how can that person be a child of God then?
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
Amen, and so does Paul (2 Corinthians 13:5).
It says "hath not seen God". Not "has maybe seen God before and now lost him again" as you try to interpret it. No, it says such a person has never, ever seen God.
No offense, but what part of that do you not understand?
Again, 1 John 3:15 can only be explained by using 1 John 2:19. It is not a true Christian that John was adressing here, rather a false convert, who does not meet the description of 1 John 3:3:
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Does "every man" mean "every man"? Yes or no?
Again:
And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 1 John 2:25
While this Epistle was written to Christians only, John the Baptist definitely also was trying to identify whether somebody was honest at following and obeying Christ.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:23
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 1 John 5:10
And this definitely does NOT describe a true believer:
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:10
If somebody claims to have never sinned, then the truth and his word are not in him, and if Christ's word is not in somebody, how can that person be a child of God then?
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:9
Amen, and so does Paul (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11
Stumble means to depart from Christ in unbelief.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21
I’m certainly not promoting “sinless perfection”, but obeying what the Spirit is teaching us through Christ and His Apostles.
JPT
Stumble means to depart from Christ in unbelief.
But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21
I’m certainly not promoting “sinless perfection”, but obeying what the Spirit is teaching us through Christ and His Apostles.
JPT
-
1
- Show all
All we can do is try to obey, but you know as well as I do that it's impossible to be obedient all the time. So we will slip up (I know you don't like the word stumble) so I'll use more politically correct terms like fall into to temptation, the bottom line is we will continue to sin till we drop dead.
If is the key. If you do those things a person would never stumble. If any man say he has not sinned he makes God out to be a liar.
When (not if ) tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately every man stumbles.
People who live in bodies of death sin every day whether in deed or thought.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
We fear Him because there is forgiveness from Him even our secret sins that we could hide from oneself. God is greater than our conscience .He knows all things even the intent.
When (not if ) tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately every man stumbles.
People who live in bodies of death sin every day whether in deed or thought.
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
We fear Him because there is forgiveness from Him even our secret sins that we could hide from oneself. God is greater than our conscience .He knows all things even the intent.
-
1
- Show all
You have a problem. You get very opinionated and post things in ignorance. I'm 73 and been elder and deacon in 3 different Reformed theology churches and sat in classes these churches conducted regularly about theological topics. They would discuss not only the Reformed theology but discuss the Arminian and other views as well.
I am Reformed in my beliefs aka Calvinist. One key verse says the carnal mind is enmity against God. That being the case how can anyone have faith in Christ. Arminism teaches free will while Calvinism teaches total depravity (carnal mind enmity against God). Therefore God has to touch the person. That causes them to get grace through faith in Jesus. In dealing with atheists on another board I see this hatred of the concept of God. I provide scientific proof that big bang evolution fails 5 seperate scientific laws and archaeological digs prove the miraculous event of Sodom and Jericho. They ignore and flee or respond with fallacious ad hominem attacks.
-
1
- Show all
Stumble means to depart from Christ in unbelief (no faith ) If we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we not beleive , yet he abides faithful: he cannot deny himself if he has begun the good work in us .
We are to put no confidence in our fleshly conscience. One day accusing the next excusing.
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6
If we not beleive , yet he abides faithful: he cannot deny himself if he has begun the good work in us .
We are to put no confidence in our fleshly conscience. One day accusing the next excusing.
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6