New violence of the Holy Spirit?

[roaringkitten]

Before I write this, let it be known I write this to expose false teachings out of concern from my heart to you. I care for my brethren in Christ and need to warn the body of Christ about this. I NEVER mean to attack anyone but only false doctrine. And I do not mean to direct this as a BLANKET statement to specific denominations(eg: pentecostal, charismatic), but to those who preach and practice false doctrine such as this.

http://www.letusreason.org/Pent33.htm

Read this article please. I know some will right off the bat write this article off before even reading it. You have NO basis of argument against it unless you have read the entire article. It references many Bible verses to explain the phenomenon that many charismatic/pentecostal churches attribute to the Holy Spirit. I believe it to be very well written and the most important aspect is the use of the Word to expose this false teaching.

"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" 1 Timothy 4:1-2

"Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be ****ed who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:24

satan will use his power to do miracles to deceive even the most elect. Read the Word of God and see that the Holy Spirit would NEVER command someone to punch a person in the head, stomach, etc...Dont let anyone fool you about this. This has become a popular new teaching today concerning the "new things" the Holy Spirit is doing. People barking, laughing hysterically, punching each other, being blown off their feet, running around the church, being BRUISED(yes, in a testimony, someone of this movement actually said within the article I posted above that he comes home bruised!) has ABSOLUTELY no Biblical support and in fact contradicts the Word of God!

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23

Do you honestly think an act that is considered violent/abusive(ie: punching) which is CLEARLY said in the Word to be evil, would be mimicked by the Holy Spirit? Consider the Word:

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," 1 Corinthians 6:9

Dont fool yourselves if you are following this movement of Holy laughter revival/etc. The Holy Spirit never acts contradictory to the Word. Most will say "just look at the fruit" and dont worry about this movement. I say look at the Word and its WARNING that there will counterfeit signs and wonders which will happen when false leaders butcher the Word of God. At best the phenomena in this movement is purely physical emotionalism, at worst it is demonic. This movement and phenomena is NOT found anywhere in the Word of God. And in fact with help from the ecumenical movement, apostasy in the church will abound as many are led away from the truth. Before writing this thread off, seek God in prayer about this. I say this in love that many will see the big deception in this movement.

You want to make a difference for God? Go soulwinning("The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise" Proverbs 11:30).......Benny Hinn as with most of the other healer con artists on TV are wolves in sheeps clothing. Dont believe me? Go research their claims and then tell me why they wont empty out the hospitals......Then match their gospel with the the gospel found in the Word of God.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Benny Hinn's Gospel is straight down the line repent of your sins and believe in Jesus alone for your salvation. There's youtube videos showing this. His ministry is quite different from the laughter one you described and tame in comparison.

 

[Porphyrios]

Benny Hinn's Gospel is straight down the line repent of your sins and believe in Jesus alone for your salvation. There's youtube videos showing this. His ministry is quite different from the laughter one you described and tame in comparison.

Never mind that he is a proven fraud that uses donations to fly first class on the concord and stay in five star hotels while he is on his "healing trips".

 

[KingdomGeneration]

Benny Hinn's Gospel is straight down the line repent of your sins and believe in Jesus alone for your salvation. There's youtube videos showing this. His ministry is quite different from the laughter one you described and tame in comparison.

I could be wrong but I believe the laughter ministries are associated with the Haggins and the Word of Faith movement which is a different animal altogether.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Yes it's something like that. I think it came from the Toronto revival etc and probably earlier than that, which is a different camp altogether than Benny Hinn.

It's well known that Smith Wigglesworth punched people for healing so RoaringKitten how do you explain that one. Can satan heal?

So this "new violence of the Holy Spirit" as you claim is nothing really new.

You claim the Holy Spirit is not violent and yet when the Spirit was lied to two people dropped dead (that's in Acts). What about when God told the Prophets to do violent things? What about the earthquakes and thunder and lightning with God's presence?

Can you still acccurately and biblically claim the Holy Spirit is not violent? Or perhaps your view of God is a big cuddly pussy cat ?

 

[Thaddaeus]

I don't have a denomination, but have been involve with the Baptist, pentecostal and full Gospel, and have seen them all do things in their services that was not lined up with the Bible. But will agree with Roaringkitten, as far as saying that the Holy Ghost will never do anything against the Bible. and just because we are guilded by the Holy Ghost or even filled with The Holy Ghost , we should never do anything that goes against the Word of God, here is one area that is badly abused by the pentecostal and the full Gospel folks, 1co 14:27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.1co 14:28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


But I have learned that most folks don't mean to go against the Word of God it Is just they don't know the Word of God Just as Benny henn must have not known that Jesus said ;

Mt 24:23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.Mt 24:24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Mt 24:25Behold, I have told you before.Mt 24:26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.Mt 24:27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For a few years back benny gave a Prophecy that Jesus would physically appear with benny on stage when they were in China. which didn't happen and if it had happened then Jesus Lied ( which can't be) in Matt. 24,

Ho 4:6My people are destroyed for LACK OF KNOWLEDGE: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.


2ti 2:15Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Miah45]

GENTLEMEN...

I'm not someone who goes around 'rebuking' others... but I will say this '
Be really... REALLY careful' about what you say.. especially regarding how you think the Holy Spirit should move and shouldn't.

Whilst it's clear we're all 'self-appointed judges' here determining who we think are men of God and who aren't (sheer arrogance), You'd be wise.. really wise to guard your mouth and heart in how God uses men in signs and wonders and chooses to heal.


ROARING KITTEN... I've said it before and I'll say one last time.. You're young.. and in your youthful zeal are ignorant of many things of the Spirit. Whilst I won't lose too much sleep if you want to believe the lie that Signs and Wonders are not for today and that certain gifts of the Holy Spirit finished with the Apostles, fine.. BUT I'll exhort you again. Be careful.. be very careful about talking about the Holy Spirit and those who operate in ways unfamiliar to you.

The fact that it seems there is next to NO ONE here on CC moving consistently in signs and wonders tells me that there is next to NO ONE qualified to judge on here.


I'll tell you as someone who does see people healed on a regular basis and knows those who see far more success than I... these directions given by the Holy Spirit are NOTHING new... they have been going on for A LONG TIME. Smith Wigglesworth is ONE of many who functioned in this realm of incredible faith.

And honestly guys, if you are shocked by the notion that God may heal as someone is punched or slapped, you're going to be mortified about some of the other outrageous miracles of incredible faith happening around the world.. I know personally of a whole Muslim village coming to Christ with fear and trembling, through a healing far more shocking.


One last thing... (knowing that these threads go on the wildest tangents..)

If you think that the punching, or slapping, hitting has anything to do with the actual healing then you're really not understanding what God is doing. God does tell people to exercise faith this way, and frankly it's not really debatable.. it's historic fact... newspapers and books have long documented those that have been healed through someone who felt led by the Holy Spirit this way. I know some of us out there that would be running around trying to find the scripture where it said in the Bible that Jesus could spit in someone's eye!

Who knows the real intent of this thread. Nine times out of ten when I've seen or heard this kind of talk, it normally boils down to the pride of someone who loves God a lot, but is horrified that God would do something they're unfamiliar with or that is outside their framework of experience.. after all.. if we LOVE God he would never leave us out of the equation would he?

Whilst I know God moves this way.. does it need explaining that I'm not going to be an advocate of everyone running around smacking someone 'in faith' tomorrow..? How I wish to see a generation of those who could at least see 100% success in praying for people's headaches.. let alone tumors etc...

People.. FAITH LEAPS and Fear looks.

As for me I'll continue to spell Faith... R..I...S...K

 

[BLC]

*roaringkitten

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," 1 Corinthians 6:9​

You are going to have to study more and find out what some of these terms and phrases mean before you use them. The phrase you have highlighted 'red' is the translation of only one word in the Greek, arsenokoitēs; This word refers to those that lie with a male as with a female (sodomy) and not those that you have depicted. That is an error on your part so please correct it.​

You are using the reference to inform others, that you consider those that do such things (pointing to the abusers) are not your brother and will not inherit the kingdom of God. If you are wrong and they are your brother, then you are instructed in scripture the following;​

Rom 14:10-14 'But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way'.​

If your brother is caught up in something that is extreme and has no place in ministering to people, pray that God will put a hedge around him and through mercy and wisdom correct him in lovingkindness, just as you and I would like to be corrected. There are many things that our brothers and sisters have gotten a little 'off kilter' about concerning the gifts and administration of the Holy Spirit. But we never judge them, but rather teach them in meekness, believing that God will show them a more excellent way. If we judge them, we run the risk of confusing other believers, causing division and putting a stumbling block in their way as they grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. ​

*Thaddaeus,​

Quote; '...and just because we are guilded by the Holy Ghost or even filled with The Holy Ghost , we should never do anything that goes against the Word of God... ​

According to (Rom 14:10-14) the word of God tells us not to judge our brother. If you judge your brother, are you not going against the word of God as well? If the one you judge is not your brother then he has one that will judge him in the last days and that is the word of God that has been spoken (John 12:48). If you have judged him not to be your brother and you are wrong, you have judged your brother. Isn't it better not to judge then to have judged wrongly?​

John 12:47,48 'And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day'.​

 

[MahogonySnail]

This bible teaching warning is about the danger of the unforgiveable sin of blaspheming the Spirit by saying a miracle is of the devil:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8ihzZP_nFU&feature=related

 

[carpetmanswife]

i am sayin this because ,here we go again..the catholic thread started out this way, now its pentecostals etc.The bible is plain, very clear . yes there are phoneys, counterfeits .telling a 'brother' your interpetation of the word is all fine and good BUT Galatians 6:1 If a man be overtaken in a fault ,ye which are spiritual , restore such a one in the spirit of MEEKNESS, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted. Doesnt say keep naggin em till u make them believe the way you do. In fact John 16:8 says And when HE *Holy Spirit* is come , HE will reprove the world of sin, of unrighteousness and judgement. Sharing the word is our job convincing is not! So plz lets try not to let this one get carried away like the other forums have and run even more ppl off from a wonderful christian site. My little children let us love not in word or tongue but in deed and truth. 1John 3:18 Our actions do speak so much louder than our words

 

[carpetmanswife]

AND WITH THAT BEING SAID IM LEAVING NOW ,GOIN TO TAKE SOME TYLENOL CAUSE SUDDENLY I HAVE A HEADACHE!! LOL GO FIGURE

 

[become_the_generation]

im not really too sure what to think of all this. all i know is im gonna go out and Christ will teach others through me, IN LOVE, which is all that matters, and right now thats pretty much all that matters. teaching others. to me at least. be blessed everybodyyyyy!

 

[BLC]

i am sayin this because ,here we go again..the catholic thread started out this way, now its pentecostals etc.The bible is plain, very clear . yes there are phoneys, counterfeits .telling a 'brother' your interpetation of the word is all fine and good BUT Galatians 6:1 If a man be overtaken in a fault ,ye which are spiritual , restore such a one in the spirit of MEEKNESS, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted. Doesnt say keep naggin em till u make them believe the way you do. In fact John 16:8 says And when HE *Holy Spirit* is come , HE will reprove the world of sin, of unrighteousness and judgement. Sharing the word is our job convincing is not! So plz lets try not to let this one get carried away like the other forums have and run even more ppl off from a wonderful christian site. My little children let us love not in word or tongue but in deed and truth. 1John 3:18 Our actions do speak so much louder than our words

Everything is not peaches and cream or strawberries and shortcake, and I love them both. We live in a day that judging a ministry, believers or your brother in Christ is an acceptable practice. According to the scriptures and Jesus Christ himself, is should not be practiced in any way. You judge yourself and let your brother do likewise. God is faithful and just and a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Proving all things does not mean you judge your brother. You can prove all things and hold fast to that which is good without judging your brother. Just do it that way. That is the simplicity that we have in Christ. When we judge other believers we take their mercy right out of God's hand, that He uses to bring correction and instruction. Mercy should always rejoice over judgment, right!

 

[carpetmanswife]

Everything is not peaches and cream or strawberries and shortcake, and I love them both. We live in a day that judging a ministry, believers or your brother in Christ is an acceptable practice. According to the scriptures and Jesus Christ himself, is should not be practiced in any way. You judge yourself and let your brother do likewise. God is faithful and just and a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Proving all things does not mean you judge your brother. You can prove all things and hold fast to that which is good without judging your brother. Just do it that way. That is the simplicity that we have in Christ. When we judge other believers we take their mercy right out of God's hand, that He uses to bring correction and instruction. Mercy should always rejoice over judgment, right!

that i agree with....

 

[xAliveInJesusx]

woah im slightly confused by all this, but i agree that we should be meek and pray for others, as well as spread the word as Jesus told us to do as disciples of Him.
I agree with some of the stuff you guys have said, but its still slightly confusing :S can anyone here simplify this a bit better?

 

[Abing]

Father, forgive us for we don't know what we're doing

 

[Sinnner]

I have found that the same people that deny the Holy Ghost are the same people who reject Jesus through their belief in eternal salvation, and are the same people who lash out at preachers that operate in the Holy Spirit. This all makes sence. If a church that taught eternal salvation accepted the opperatin of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit would lead them away from this belief therefore they must deny the Holy Spirit. This also explains why they lash out at preachers who teach in alignment with the actual gospel of Jesus Christ and operate in the Holy Spirit. This new religion that is being taught is so close to actual Christianity that many are fooled into believing that they are saved. These teachings are a trick from satan to lead many to hell.

 

[iamnotashamed]

I really can't judge this, because I have never seen this. I have witnessed tongues that I KNOW are from the Sprit, so beautiful that you would think the angels themselves are speaking. These are used in prayer. I have also heard tongues that I believe are from the devil, and they made my skin crawl. I love to see people worshiping, whether that be through righteous tongues, dancing, etc. In my mind, I can't see that the Holy Spirit would make people bark or hit each other, but then, that is in my limited, human thinking. I think I would have to be at a service where these things are being done, and then trust the Holy Spirit to guide me as to whether it is right or wrong. He hasn't let me down yet.

comment on my blog: iamnotashamedthelist.com

 

[Thaddaeus]

*

*Thaddaeus,​

Quote; '...and just because we are guilded by the Holy Ghost or even filled with The Holy Ghost , we should never do anything that goes against the Word of God... ​

According to (Rom 14:10-14) the word of God tells us not to judge our brother. If you judge your brother, are you not going against the word of God as well? If the one you judge is not your brother then he has one that will judge him in the last days and that is the word of God that has been spoken (John 12:48). If you have judged him not to be your brother and you are wrong, you have judged your brother. Isn't it better not to judge then to have judged wrongly?​

John 12:47,48 'And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day'.​

I did not judge anyone, to judge someone is to sentence them, judge not least ye be judged by the same comdemnation, but we are as Christians suppose to judge sin , or know what is good and what is evi. it is never good to go against the Word of God


l Jer 14:14Then the LORD said unto me, The PROPHETs prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a FALSE vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.



But I guess the way you interpret scriptures Jesus was wrong when he told us
Mt 18:15Moreover if thy BROTHER shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his FAULT between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy BROTHER.

cause we would have to JUDGE them to know that they had done a trepass thenwe were also told

Ga 6:1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.


and you tell me not to judged but you judge me in order to know that i did something wrong in your eyes, but I never judged anyone but the sin, I never said pentecosta people were going to burn or that Benny was a false prophet , so rather you just judged me wrongfully , I said that they did things against God ( sin) out of lack of knowlegde.

 

[xAliveInJesusx]

This reminds me of Galatians 5 verses 16- 26.
But ill write here one of the important verses of that passage: Galatians 5 verse 22, 23 (NLT) "But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. There is no law against these things!"

I ask where does violence come into that?! NOWHERE ^^ The truth of God is there people. The spirit is to give us fruit in these areas, not containing anything about violence, therefore the preachers from that article are liars, and we should not believe in them and their false teachings. Simple really!