12 Signs You Are A Modern-Day Pharisee

[7seasrekeyed]

Pharisee of Jesus' day: The person who gets murderously mad at you when you say that they are outside of the boundaries of the law they say they cherish so much but do not live by.

Pharisee of our day: The person who gets murderously mad at you when you say that they are outside the boundaries of the grace they say they cherish so much but do not live by.


Sorry, folks, if any of you are offended by that, but I calls them as I sees them. There's a truth movement going on in the world today and I'd like to see it happen in the church. Time to call a spade a spade.

I know I am not offended and I truly doubt those who understand salvation and God's grace are offended. rather, I suppose they disagree with your opposition to 'keeping saved' and follow the rules etc. and they prob do not care for your ad hominem attacks either...I know I don't care for that from anyone

you have made several slurs against me and IMO, that would be the mark of one who actually is offended

why sound angry and get so defensive if you are so convinced of what you believe?

further, God holds YOU responsible for your attitude and your reasons for not going to church if you think you should go

He is not looking for someone to blame in your place as you are

we EACH answer and I can already hear the reply as to how you might agree with that, while forgetting again it also applies to yourself

 

[Ralph-]

again, no one can abuse God's grace because God is immutable

Insulting the Spirit of grace is not abusing grace???? Seriously?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Insulting the Spirit of grace is not abusing grace???? Seriously?

you have simply made that up

as long as you are on this earth, yes seriously, you will continue with sin and the wonder of the grace of God will see you as made righteous by Christ

continuing in sin, habitual and deliberate sin, is even forgiveable whether you accept that or not

the fact you do not seem to understand the condition of fallen mankind indicates you may not fully comprehend all that Christ has actualy done for us

your one liners are indicative of someone who has no intention of actually trying to discuss and only wants to be right...like one of them thar modern pharisees you think you have pegged

it is hard to give consideration to your posts when you reply that way

I have changed my mind on things I thought I understood as I grow in Christ and I can look back and see what a bit of an ignorant little creton I have been on occasion and how I brought things down on my own head by my behavior

I'm not arguing with you but you seem to think anyone who disagrees with your position is in for the fight of their lives because, by gum, you think your position is sacrosanct

 

[Ralph-]

I know I am not offended and I truly doubt those who understand salvation and God's grace are offended. rather, I suppose they disagree with your opposition to 'keeping saved' and follow the rules etc. and they prob do not care for your ad hominem attacks either...I know I don't care for that from anyone

Well, you're certainly entitled to understand what I say correctly or incorrectly. I'm not going to argue that point. Either you get what I say or you don't. I'm fine with that. The angry rebuttals is what I do not like.

you have made several slurs against me and IMO, that would be the mark of one who actually is offended

And those were what exactly?

why sound angry and get so defensive if you are so convinced of what you believe?

I've learned to deal with the defensiveness. The ungodly responses and blindness of so many is what is hard to deal with around here.

...and your reasons for not going to church if you think you should go

Ah, so that's what set you off.

I'm sorry that I offended you, but I will not now lie and say I didn't really mean your response is a reason I won't go back to a church. I truly dislike how some Christians simply refuse to have scripture show they are believing something the Bible does not endorse. And I'm talking about plain things, not the things that can come into honest debate.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

anyway Ralph, you can continue with your mock amazement at everyone else's inability to understand how right you are but I think I am done with it at least for now

 

[seed_time_harvest]

well you just have to read the Bible. Start at Matt 23 Jesus is speaking read it the NLT that way you will get the full effect. If you will not hear Jesus no other scripture will matter to you. As it did not with the Pharieeses in Matt. 23.

I agree.
It’s harder to write on a chalk board that Is already full of bad doctrine than It would be to write on an empty chalk board In other words when a person learns bad doctrine that Is In error they would first have to erase all that bad doctrine before they can start learning correct doctrine

And that type person might get offended when they receive doctrine that they deem contrary to their teachings.

 

[Ralph-]

Insulting the Spirit of grace is not abusing grace???? Seriously?

you have simply made that up

I didn't make it up. I HONESTLY thought you'd recognize the scripture I was referring to. And that it would put an end to all arguments about whether grace can be abused or not:

"29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? "-Hebrews 10:

Don't you even dare bring the matter of OSAS into this. This verse and others plainly speaks of how God's grace can be abused. You say it can not because grace itself covers that abuse. Not true.

 

[Ralph-]

anyway Ralph, you can continue with your mock amazement at everyone else's inability to understand how right you are but I think I am done with it at least for now

I'm amazed at how many Christians can't receive the plain words of scripture! This has nothing to do with me.

 

[Ralph-]

I'm not arguing with you but you seem to think anyone who disagrees with your position is in for the fight of their lives because, by gum, you think your position is sacrosanct

Good grief, key, the plain words of the Bible are what are sacrosanct. I'm truly amazed at how many people IN THE CHURCH, PARTICULARLY, who cast them away in favor of the exact opposite of what those plain words say.

 

[Ralph-]

your one liners are indicative of someone who has no intention of actually trying to discuss and only wants to be right...

The floor is yours. Show us Hebrews 10:29 does not show us God's grace can be abused. I'm all ears.

Are we to believe this verse means the exact opposite and that God's grace can NOT be trampled on and abused? And remember, do not bring a hint of OSAS into this. I'm not.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm glad you made the connection that Jesus spoke about this in regard to the Pharisees of his day.

They knew they were rejecting the Holy Spirit, yet they did it anyway. Jesus calls that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That's what people today are doing who trample on the grace of God, insulting it, but who claim it's impossible to abuse grace because grace covers ALL things, even the sin of rejecting grace. No, Jesus was very clear about that. Grace is NOT going to cover that. Grace does not go everywhere. It does in fact have a line that it will NOT cross.

We don't even need to talk about it's implications to OSAS (which I'm not) to know that Christ clearly and plainly said that is unforgivable. You can not abuse grace and think it will cover that sin. No it will not. Yet, I am told, even scolded, over and over that yes it will because it's impossible to abuse grace. That's the spirit of the new Pharisee in the church.

actually I just read the above and I will point out the fallacy of what you are doing by comparing the Pharisees of Jesus day to people today that believe what you call 'hyper grace'

first off, there is simply the grace of God and thereafter, apparently, there are those who misunderstand in either direction but God is good and He knows the heart and if we continue to seek Him, He will straighten us out

fallacy: the Pharisees thought they were the elect of God. yet, you say they knew they were rejecting the Holy Spirit. they exhibited anger and even hatred towards Jesus (as has already been pointed out) because His words convicted them yet they maintained their 'religious' beliefs

you seem to forget the Pharisees had no clue about what we understand as God's grace today.

any chance you see that? so your apples and oranges comparison has no foot in the door

again, you are still trying to somehow create a blend between two different things and have left the actual op to slam a different and actually more biblical understanding of grace than you seem to exhibit

what I have repeatedly said here...to YOU...is that you cannot abuse God's grace. it is not extended to the lifestyle you keep declaring is being lived by others. kapeesh? His grace is ONLY extended to those that are HIS and if He forgives sin that you find particularly odious, take it up with God.

God does not forgive sin automatically from non believers and those are the sins His grace does not cover but if they turn to Him He will also accept them and forgive all their sins as well

I mean honestly. being sin focused is EXACTLY where the devil wants people. he wants to keep people ineffective and a stumbling block by getting them to focus on their own selves instead of on their Savior

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I think you have spiritual indigestion Ralph

my last word for now. I leave you in peace and I pray you begin to understand I am not indicating a lifestyle of sin is ok and NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE

however, you keep seeing it that way

spiritual indigestion

 

[seed_time_harvest]

As soon as I read no. 7, I knew this would become another osas thread...

I was thinking It was about what will a person that thinks that we work FOR salvation.

 

[Ralph-]

I think you have spiritual indigestion Ralph

my last word for now. I leave you in peace and I pray you begin to understand I am not indicating a lifestyle of sin is ok and NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE

however, you keep seeing it that way

spiritual indigestion

Instead of leaving the discussion you could just show me Hebrews 10:29 doesn't really mean the grace of God can be abused.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The big problem in the church today is not Christians trying to earn salvation by works. Good grief, all you have to do is look around you and see that Christians are definitely not noted for being careful to do the righteous works of the law because they think that's how they are made righteous before God.

Baloney. The vast majority of Christendom thinks that because they were "baptized/water-baptized" or are "a member of such-and-such a church" (or the like) that they are "going to heaven"/"saved"/"a Christian"/"a child of God".



[see also Gal3:21b]

 

[Lucian_Hodoboc]

Then you must think people of all religions who do good deeds are saved by their works.......or........you're saying works don't matter in determining if you're a sheep or not but that doesn't seem consistent with what you've been posting, so you must be saying anybody of any religion is saved by doing good works to earn that salvation.

What I'm saying is that with God, all things are possible. I don't think we should speak for God as far as His criteria of judgement is concerned. He judges people's hearts and good deeds come from the heart, as does faith in Jesus. Whether these two elements are related in all the people who are saved, that's not for me to say.

 

[Lucian_Hodoboc]

"22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control "-Galatians 5:22

You won't catch 'do-gooders' of other religions being characterized by these qualities of the Spirit. In fact, my personal observation of atheist humanitarians and other non-Christian do-gooders is that they are among the most angry and self-righteous people I've ever seen. They are hardly characterized as being Christ-like.

Well, how many of them have you observed, if I may ask? Allow me to give you a few examples of non-Christian people who seem to have those qualities:

https://www.thenewsminute.com/artic...ons-blows-poll-bugle-anyway-party-rally-87673
https://www.thoughtco.com/top-islamic-charitable-organizations-2004028
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americ...nizations-working-on-the-ground-in-nepal.html

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I'm saying is that with God, all things are possible. I don't think we should speak for God as far as His criteria of judgement is concerned. He judges people's hearts and good deeds come from the heart, as does faith in Jesus. Whether these two elements are related in all the people who are saved, that's not for me to say.

Correct

And what is Gods judgment

1. For all have sinned and fall short of his standard
2. The pentaly of sin is death

Thus according to God. There is non righteous no not one. In ther words, Everyone is in the same boat. They are all dead to God. And inneed of grace. Because non of us has lived up to his standard (perfection) and because of that, we all need grace.. No amount of good deeds is going to help you. Your guilty, period. You can be sinless from now until you die, your still guilty.

Pul understood this, Sadly many do not. They think they are ok, Just like the pharisee did. Hence I believe the point CS1 was tryign to make. What does it look like to be a modern day pharisee.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Instead of leaving the discussion you could just show me Hebrews 10:29 doesn't really mean the grace of God can be abused.

well I don't spend 24/7 on here Ralph so instead of trying to make it seem I am snubbing you, when I have taken alot of time as it is to reply to your beliefs, try being more realistic

well who is the person who shows no respect for the Son of God?

I really wish that you could see past your soapbox here and understand that people do not reflect on God's grace and they do not change God's grace

do you know what a discussion is?

it is not the rest of the forum answering your questions while you ignore answers others have given you and then you try to make it seem I left rather then pay you the attention you think you deserve

you put a spin on the op and inserted your own version of what you think a pharisee is, all the while demonstrating it far better than your actual terse one sentence replies

I have responded several times, said the same thing different ways and really, you ignore it and go right back to your diversion

understand me when I say I don't have the time to stay here and help you pass the day

you cannot abuse what God is not offering you and He is not offering grace to those outside of it unless they turn to Him and He is not offering grace to those who profess Christianity and yet live like they never heard of Christ

you are in error as many have tried to point out to you and you snarked at them and you have snarked at me more than enough

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, how many of them have you observed, if I may ask? Allow me to give you a few examples of non-Christian people who seem to have those qualities:

https://www.thenewsminute.com/artic...ons-blows-poll-bugle-anyway-party-rally-87673
https://www.thoughtco.com/top-islamic-charitable-organizations-2004028
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americ...nizations-working-on-the-ground-in-nepal.html

Remember, The pharisee was considered (by human standards) to be the most righteous people on earth in Jesus day, So righteous, Jesus said unless ours exceded theirs, we had no hope.

If they were judged guilty, what about the rest of the world? Who could not even live up to their standard?