John McCain, Hero of the Free World

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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#61
I believe God will not throw people into Hell for being born into a different religion and practicing the religion of their parents. Period. End of story. I see God as a loving God and way more "intelligent" (if I can evuse that word for such a Power), than we are. You do know that ALantiL the monotheistic religions (Islam, Catholicism and some of Protestantism believe this .
Jesus purpose was not solely to die for our sins (and that is a 16th Century theory)(, but to LIVE AND TEACH us how to treat one another. That is where it is at. People who follow the teachings ... whether they know Him or not ... are saved. Hell is a construct of the Church. Nowhere in the Bible is Hell mentionedh,. Death and grave are. (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) ... all refer to death, not Hell. In the middle ages the notion of Hell became popular. Early Christians were not even aware of the concept. An all loving, JUST God would not punish people with Hell for being born into the "wrong" religioin.
Unfortunately the bible and the Lord Himself does not agree with your gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Aug 11, 2018
14
8
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#62
God judges the heart, not the outward appearance. McCain supported unequivocally and vociferously America's murderous rampages through the Middle East....Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya...and actively worked towards killing millions in Iran. There is a lot of money to be made in war.

McCain's millions. Good luck with that before God.

If he was not insane, then he will have no legal defence in heaven.
But that is by the by.

Our job as Christians is to preach the gospel, not foment war and worship its demonic agents
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,481
12,950
113
#63
God judges the heart, not the outward appearance. McCain supported unequivocally and vociferously America's murderous rampages through the Middle East....Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya...and actively worked towards killing millions in Iran. There is a lot of money to be made in war
At the same time McCain was "the Godfather" of the Muslim Brotherhood in America, and would not allow an investigation into this terrorist group.


Egyptian media: John McCain is real Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...real-supreme-guide-of-the-muslim-brotherhood/
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#64
God judges the heart, not the outward appearance.
Yes


McCain supported unequivocally and vociferously
I don't think that he was in favor of war, actively supporting war for the sake of war. He also supported a strong Germany to counter Russian aggression in Europe.


America's murderous rampages
Tell that to Czar Putin when he marches into Berlin. Because it takes a murderous rampage to stop his murderous rampage.

Sure everything is clearer as time passes. It's easy to see then the mistakes and the deeds of evil men who did not put their hearts into their decisions. Every nation and kingdom has had those people.

But no one alive today can be responsible for the things that happened 100 years ago, or that were outside their realm of responsibility.

Things like wars and the causes of wars are not simple. Each one should be looked at individually.

I'm not going to completely disagree with you on this, the Iraq war was murder.


through the Middle East....Syria, Yemen, Iraq, Libya...and actively worked towards killing millions in Iran.
Each one is a little different. I can't justify war, only for self defense.


There is a lot of money to be made in war.
There was a man who said, "Beware of the industrial military complex." I agree with him.


McCain's millions. Good luck with that before God.

If he was not insane, then he will have no legal defence in heaven.
But that is by the by.
If you are a Christian you will need no defense before God except the blood of Jesus.


Our job as Christians is to preach the gospel, not foment war and worship its demonic agents
That is true.

I don't think that anybody is worshiping John McCain as a demonic agent.

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abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#65
At the same time McCain was "the Godfather" of the Muslim Brotherhood in America, and would not allow an investigation into this terrorist group.


Egyptian media: John McCain is real Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...real-supreme-guide-of-the-muslim-brotherhood/
N6,

Do you automatically believe everything that you read on the net?

Because some guy says something he knows nothing about,

Suddenly John McCain is a Muslim Brotherhood Supreme leader?

Excuse me but, ha, ha, ha, ha! Tell another good one. Isn't there a thread for jokes?

--------
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
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#66
Unfortunately the bible and the Lord Himself does not agree with your gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What part of what I have said do you disagree with? All? What is the Gospel, in your words? Thank you.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#67
What part of what I have said do you disagree with? All? What is the Gospel, in your words? Thank you.
The gospel is not what you have done in this life but what Christ has done on your behalf. Good works do not make one saved only gods grace saves men from their sin.

One must believe on Christ and receive Him as Savior to be saved. Romans 10:9-10 Eph 2:8-9. Any belief no matter how ardently held is of no merit if it does not believe on Christ as Savior. Works and good deeds do not save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
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#68
Jesus said that even evil people could do good.

Only Christians are saved and only saved people are going to heaven. Unsaved people remain condemned no matter how much good they do in their lifetime.

Denominational affiliation is not a factor in salvation nor is ethnic origin. Only a correct biblical knowledge of Christ is the determining factor in salvation.

Your contentions are not supported by scripture.

I am concerned that McCain never speaks of God or gives God the glory in all the things that occurred in his life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This would mean that Mother Theresa, a Catholic, and one who was very good and devoted her life to the care of the sick and the poor is in Hell. makes no sense to me. It is not about doing a good thing but BEING a good person who does good because they have compassion and true empathy. They want to do it in and of itself. Not to gain favour with God. My reference to Jew meant one who practices Judaism (religion). Yes, Jesus may well determine that evven those who do not know Him due to being "brainwashed" to believe in another religion? are saved. Not their fault. Many Christians are considered unsaved because they are politically liberal or progressive. It seems the only saved ones are the conservative evangelicals.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#69
This would mean that Mother Theresa, a Catholic, and one who was very good and devoted her life to the care of the sick and the poor is in Hell. makes no sense to me. It is not about doing a good thing but BEING a good person who does good because they have compassion and true empathy. They want to do it in and of itself. Not to gain favour with God. My reference to Jew meant one who practices Judaism (religion). Yes, Jesus may well determine that evven those who do not know Him due to being "brainwashed" to believe in another religion? are saved. Not their fault. Many Christians are considered unsaved because they are politically liberal or progressive. It seems the only saved ones are the conservative evangelicals.
God is not a respecter of persons. One way to eternal life and that is through Christ. So yeah Mother Theresa is not going to enter heaven on what she did. If she did not know Christ as Savior then Christ will not know her in eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
28
#70
The gospel is not what you have done in this life but what Christ has done on your behalf. Good works do not make one saved only gods grace saves men from their sin.

One must believe on Christ and receive Him as Savior to be saved. Romans 10:9-10 Eph 2:8-9. Any belief no matter how ardently held is of no merit if it does not believe on Christ as Savior. Works and good deeds do not save.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's it? Just believe? Help no one. Then I guess Jesus wasted his time preaching how to be for 3 and one half years if we are to ignore his teachings? I think that is the very heart of the faith. Trying to put what Jesus taught into our affairs. Your view is a singular view in Christianity but not in all of christianity. Certainly not so for Catholic Christians and Mainline Protestants/and Progressive Protestants.
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
28
#71
God is not a respecter of persons. One way to eternal life and that is through Christ. So yeah Mother Theresa is not going to enter heaven on what she did. If she did not know Christ as Savior then Christ will not know her in eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
If Mother Theresa is not in heaven, no one is. Oh, by the way, she was a devout Catholic. Jesus emphasized loving Him AND loving your neighbour ... all of them and to do that we must behave and do ... act. You can call it works. I call it doing the right thing.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,670
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#72
If Mother Theresa is not in heaven, no one is. Oh, by the way, she was a devout Catholic. Jesus emphasized loving Him AND loving your neighbour ... all of them and to do that we must behave and do ... act. You can call it works. I call it doing the right thing.
Just how do you think Mother Teresa or anybody else gets to heaven?
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,670
113
#73
This would mean that Mother Theresa, a Catholic, and one who was very good and devoted her life to the care of the sick and the poor is in Hell. makes no sense to me. It is not about doing a good thing but BEING a good person who does good because they have compassion and true empathy. They want to do it in and of itself. Not to gain favour with God. My reference to Jew meant one who practices Judaism (religion). Yes, Jesus may well determine that evven those who do not know Him due to being "brainwashed" to believe in another religion? are saved. Not their fault. Many Christians are considered unsaved because they are politically liberal or progressive. It seems the only saved ones are the conservative evangelicals.
Please stop hardening your heart to the Gospel.
If Mother Teresa or anybody else could get to heaven by being and doing good then God the Father ignored His Son's plea to take the cup of the cross from Him, and deliberately had His Son tortured, crucified and die for no reason, knowing that there were some other way for men to be saved.

Can you not see how utterly offensive that is to God?
That is in essence trampling on the Blood of Christ.
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
28
#74
Please stop hardening your heart to the Gospel.
If Mother Teresa or anybody else could get to heaven by being and doing good then God the Father ignored His Son's plea to take the cup of the cross from Him, and deliberately had His Son tortured, crucified and die for no reason, knowing that there were some other way for men to be saved.

Can you not see how utterly offensive that is to God?
That is in essence trampling on the Blood of Christ.
No, I dont see it as offensive at all too God. Jesus died because of our sins. But, being a good person and following what he taught for 3 1/2 years cannot be wrong. It is not to "gain points" , but to have learned from Jesus to try (fail as we do) ... but try to become better persons.
In any case, that Jesus died for our sins is a theory put forth long after He died. It is the ransom theory. there are so many others. I dont believe I have read in the Bible where it says Jesus died to save us from our sins.
Can you please give me the verses on that?

What Jesus did was LIVE and show us how to LIVE and how to treat one another.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,670
113
#75
No, I dont see it as offensive at all too God. Jesus died because of our sins. But, being a good person and following what he taught for 3 1/2 years cannot be wrong. It is not to "gain points" , but to have learned from Jesus to try (fail as we do) ... but try to become better persons.
In any case, that Jesus died for our sins is a theory put forth long after He died. It is the ransom theory. there are so many others. I dont believe I have read in the Bible where it says Jesus died to save us from our sins.
Can you please give me the verses on that?

What Jesus did was LIVE and show us how to LIVE and how to treat one another.
1 Corinthians 15 New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of Christ
15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SINS according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried,that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,670
113
#76
No, I dont see it as offensive at all too God. Jesus died because of our sins. But, being a good person and following what he taught for 3 1/2 years cannot be wrong. It is not to "gain points" , but to have learned from Jesus to try (fail as we do) ... but try to become better persons.
In any case, that Jesus died for our sins is a theory put forth long after He died. It is the ransom theory. there are so many others. I dont believe I have read in the Bible where it says Jesus died to save us from our sins.
Can you please give me the verses on that?

What Jesus did was LIVE and show us how to LIVE and how to treat one another.
Do YOU want to be accursed? Please repent of the false gospel you have been preaching.

Galatians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be ACCURSED.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be ACCURSED.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#77
That's it? Just believe? Help no one. Then I guess Jesus wasted his time preaching how to be for 3 and one half years if we are to ignore his teachings? I think that is the very heart of the faith. Trying to put what Jesus taught into our affairs. Your view is a singular view in Christianity but not in all of christianity. Certainly not so for Catholic Christians and Mainline Protestants/and Progressive Protestants.
Christians are singular in their view because there is only one Christ. It isn't Christianity if it isn't of Christ. The Jews to whom Jesus came were not able to work for salvation how then shall we Gentiles exceed their works? Salvation is by grace not by works. Always has been and God will not change.

Do you believe the bible to be the word of God? If you do then Jesus said you must be born again to see the kingdom of God. John 3. That is singular and not open to many ways to go to heaven.
No, I dont see it as offensive at all too God. Jesus died because of our sins. But, being a good person and following what he taught for 3 1/2 years cannot be wrong. It is not to "gain points" , but to have learned from Jesus to try (fail as we do) ... but try to become better persons.
In any case, that Jesus died for our sins is a theory put forth long after He died. It is the ransom theory. there are so many others. I dont believe I have read in the Bible where it says Jesus died to save us from our sins.
Can you please give me the verses on that?

What Jesus did was LIVE and show us how to LIVE and how to treat one another.
Well seems like the apostle Paul writing under the Holy Spirits leading contradicts your understanding of salvation.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Bodean2146

New member
Sep 5, 2018
1
0
1
#78
For some reason? You seem to want to degrade him. Make him seem less than who he was.

If you are speaking that all should become Christians or your life is vain, I agree.

If you a saying these words because of politics,.........I disagree.
As a 45 year old I dont remember his sacrifice in Vietnam. I do know how his childish grudge against Trump helped keep in motion the Stalinist disgrace known as Obamacare. I absolutely agree that he is an American hero. I do NOT agree that that exempts him from being fallible. He left alot to be desired the last few years because he bought into all the "Maverick" hype. I was once a associate pastor in a great church. Today I struggle daily with sobriety. I will say, about me, I was alot better back then. Then the world got a hold of me and I was and am still, weak. What his religious affiliation was is irrelevant. Only he knows his relationship status with God. I choose to think he was good with God. To think he was not flawed is not disrespectful, its just human. Long live ALL of OUR best in life when we die.
 

Blanche

Junior Member
Mar 19, 2018
173
54
28
#79
Do YOU want to be accursed? Please repent of the false gospel you have been preaching.
Is it a false Gospel to say that Jesus died for us all. That we should do what HHe spent 3 and one half years preaching for us to do? To really follow him and not JUST believe? If that will send me to Hell, I guess just about anything will.
Again: I do not believe that the Gospel says all those who do not know Jesus are destined for Hell. I am not even sure Hell (fiery, painfu l and forever) exists as it completely inconsistent with a loving God. The Bible is not clear on Hell.
Fear of God is a terrible thing. Can you love what you fear ... fear that is you believe it wrong (get it wrong through no fault of your own ... example, being born into another religion and obeying your parents and following that religion gets you into Hell? To believe that Mother Theresa and Ghandi are in hell? to believe that Catholics are in Hell .. that only evangelicals are saved? Makes no sense to me. never has. never will. and it is NOT in the Bible. if it is in the bible that those born into another religion go to Hell, then point it out. You cannot believe in something you were taught NOT to believe in.

c
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,955
8,670
113
#80
Is it a false Gospel to say that Jesus died for us all. That we should do what HHe spent 3 and one half years preaching for us to do? To really follow him and not JUST believe? If that will send me to Hell, I guess just about anything will.
Again: I do not believe that the Gospel says all those who do not know Jesus are destined for Hell. I am not even sure Hell (fiery, painfu l and forever) exists as it completely inconsistent with a loving God. The Bible is not clear on Hell.
Fear of God is a terrible thing. Can you love what you fear ... fear that is you believe it wrong (get it wrong through no fault of your own ... example, being born into another religion and obeying your parents and following that religion gets you into Hell? To believe that Mother Theresa and Ghandi are in hell? to believe that Catholics are in Hell .. that only evangelicals are saved? Makes no sense to me. never has. never will. and it is NOT in the Bible. if it is in the bible that those born into another religion go to Hell, then point it out. You cannot believe in something you were taught NOT to believe in.

c
How we are to follow Jesus happens AFTER we are born again by accepting Him, who He is and what He has done. If you do not have Jesus and He doesn't know you, then you WILL die in your sins, and be eternally separated from Him in Hell.

You can believe 2+2= 5 til the day you die. It won't make a speck of difference to the FACT that 2+2=4.

Matthew 7:
I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I NEVER KNEW YOU; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Luke 13:
25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I DO NOT KNOW YOU, where you are from,’ 26 then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you I DO NOT KNOW YOU, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out.

Matthew 25:
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.

11 “Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us!’ 12 But he answered and said, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, I DO NOT KNOW YOU.’

Once the Lord shuts that door those that He does NOT know will bang to get in, but it will be too late. You WILL BE lost forever in your sins.

So please, stop saying " well I don't believe". You STILL have time, but who knows how much. Repent of your belief that there is some other way than Jesus. The issue isn't Mother Teresa, muslims, or Ghandi. The issue is YOU!