Sabbath

[posthuman]

In what way?


Can you explain how "thou shall love your neighbor as thyself" is a "Work of the Law" commanded by Moses for the justification of sins?

as you said, 'the work of the Law' in the hearts of those who do not have the Law doesn't make a lot of sense interpreted as purely having reference to blood atonement rituals. it most naturally lends itself to reference of moral aspects of the Law.

your view is actually surprisingly close to the standard Catholic apologetic understanding of the term, although they ((along with most orthodox)) see strong reason to conclude that by it Paul references all the ceremonial aspects of the Law, from diet to ritual cleanliness to observance of special days, weeks, and years. without a sound comprehension ((or indeed without acceptance)) of Colossians and certain parts of Romans, it is easy to see why your personal theology parts ways with the rest of Orthodoxy on that point.
Romans 2:14-15 is a sticky place for theologians trying to justify sacramental rites as integral to justification/sanctification. it is hard to support an argument that the 'work of the Law' in a persons heart, who has no knowledge of Moses & Judaic practices, is naturally condemned by their conscious for failing to, for example, perform the rites of the Festival of Weeks at the proper time.

but maybe you can just wave your hand and brush it off, saying that 'the work of the Law' has nothing to do with, is completely dissimilar to and far removed from 'the works of the Law'

i wouldn't know.

Surely i am more stupid than any man, ​

and i do not have the understanding of a man. ​

(Proverbs 30:2)​

 

[Endoscopy]

I find Yeshua's Posts, as well as Shamah's very biblically accurate and very informative. In this Evil time it would be wise to do the study before condemning it. The Bible is also a very long post. But those interested in it's contents will make the time to study it.

The fact that he went to such efforts to show what he has leaned to his brothers is proof positive his heart is in the right place. and even if nobody wants to read it, I'm sure it strengthened him. I know it did me.

As I stated before. If you want your posts read on forums keep them short. It doesn't matter who you quote. Just a glance at its length and it is ignored.

 

[Deade]

Great post.
Do you observe the set aside sabbath as traditionally scheduled? Friday to Saturday, sundown?

Yes I do. Not just physically but in spirit and in truth, just like I worship God.

 

[Studyman]

="posthuman, post: 3702594, member: 170505"]as you said, 'the work of the Law' in the hearts of those who do not have the Law doesn't make a lot of sense interpreted as purely having reference to blood atonement rituals. it most naturally lends itself to reference of moral aspects of the Law.

I think you are just molding scriptures to justify your religious tradition that Jesus came to "Remove" as you said, His fathers instructions. I don't think Paul is saying that at all.

Romans 2:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This sentence is the Theme of the entire Law and Prophets. It doesn't say that I justify myself, or that my Works justify me. It says those who honor God with obedience "Shall be" justified?

How are they justified?

Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (These would by those who don't just hear His instructions, but those who "DO" them)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?

Are they justified by the "Deeds" of the justification Laws given by Moses to the Levites? What other "Laws of Works" exist? Show me another Law of Works God gave whereby sins can be atoned for?

Nay: but by the law of faith.

And what is the Law of Faith?

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is a Law of faith, Yes? Do you "believe" in this God?

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by (the Law of) faith without the deeds of the law(of Works)

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision (Jews) by faith, and uncircumcision (Gentiles) through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


What Law do we establish? the Old Priesthood "Law of Works" for justification of sins the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians??

Or the Law of FAITH that Abraham had? Remember, Abraham didn't just hear God's instructions, he was a "doer" of them.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Catholic church teaches, as do you, that the Messiah came to "REMOVE" God's instructions because they are just too burdensome and unjust. But the God of the Bible teaches that the Messiah came, not to remove them, but to write them on His Peoples heart so as to preserve them.

Not the "Law of Works" which was "ADDED" until the Seed should come, but the Law of Faith every example of the faithful in the Bible strived to follow.

 

[Studyman]

no, I do not preach this- the Bible says so. I just told you what Jerimiah 30 says. that is Scripture also.

we are under the Abrahamic Covenant- " through your seed all the families of the Earth shall be blessed."

you are part of a family, and you are on the earth , right?

you are not standing in ancient Israel after the return from Babylon are you?


you did not answer the question- do you have authority over Scripture?

Jer. 31:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So you preach this isn't the promised New Covenant spoken of in Hebrews 7-10.

 

[gb9]

Jer. 31:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

So you preach this isn't the promised New Covenant spoken of in Hebrews 7-10.

you cannot ignore Jerimiah 30. I have told you what it says multiple times.

once again, you fail to answer the question- do you have authority over Scripture??

 

[Studyman]

Hebrews 10:4 - For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. 7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—In the volume of the book it is written of Me—To do Your will, O God.’ ” 8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Exactly makes my point. It is the Priesthood that was Changed, Not God's definition of sin, or Holy.

In Romans 14:1-23, the apostle Paul says: ".. One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind...(NASB)." In other words, for the Christian, the Apostle is saying that no day is to be regarded holier than another. Although the Torah was read every Saturday in the synagogues, the early Gentile Christians were never commanded to be circumcised, or to rest on Saturday as the Jews were (Acts 15:1-21). You turn the "shadow" into an idol and reject the substance.

Again, what one religious man says, or another religious man says is of no consequence to me, nor should it have any bearing on my salvation. I believe it is God who defines what is set apart and what is not. It is God who defines what is Holy and what is not. He is God and there is no other. So when people are in tune with this ONE God, there is no division. So let each man be convinced in his own mind who to listen to, religious man, or the God of the Bible.

When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

So you must preach then, that when these folks "DIDN'T know God or were known of Him" they were observing God's Holy Sabbaths and Passover, and Feast of atonement.

Then they were convinced by you that God's Laws are against them, and they can only be free by rejecting God's Laws, so your church saved them. But now, they are turning "AGAIN" to the Commandments of an unjust God which were created to enslave them and keep them blind.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,(Reject the instruction) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and

Men's hair shampoo model? LOL People celebrate the birth of Christ on Christmas. Such a horrible tradition, huh? Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas and they also do not believe that Jesus is God. Which cult are you mixed up in that has brain washed you to believe all of this baloney that you continue to peddle?

Of course Dan. Your religious traditions are Holy and Righteous. But God's definition of Holy is a prison to keep you blind. Your images of God in the likeness of man is Righteous, But God's Commandment forbidding such a thing is a burden, and keeps you blind, in prison. Your religion is just and acceptable to God. But God's Word's and instructions are "Weak and Beggarly Elements, "Rudiments of the World" and "Vain deceit".

I think you are listening to the wrong voice.

 

[Studyman]

you cannot ignore Jerimiah 30. I have told you what it says multiple times.

once again, you fail to answer the question- do you have authority over Scripture??

So, you do preach Jer. 31 is not the Prophesy of the New Covenant spoken of in Heb. 7-10.

I'm not a judge of God's Word. but a believer of God's Word.

 

[gb9]

So, you do preach Jer. 31 is not the Prophesy of the New Covenant spoken of in Heb. 7-10.

I'm not a judge of God's Word. but a believer of God's Word.

I did not ask you if you were a judge.

i'll ask you for a fourth time- do you have any authority over Scripture.

i'll go ahead and answer for my self- I do not.

you??

 

[Studyman]

I did not ask you if you were a judge.

i'll ask you for a fourth time- do you have any authority over Scripture.

i'll go ahead and answer for my self- I do not.

you??

I answered your question.

 

[Lillywolf]

Yes I do. Not just physically but in spirit and in truth, just like I worship God.

View attachment 187755

I love the animated "Yes".

 

[Deade]

I did not ask you if you were a judge.

i'll ask you for a fourth time- do you have any authority over Scripture.

i'll go ahead and answer for my self- I do not.

you??

What do you mean by authority over scripture. Is that like the infallibility policy of the pope, or is it something else?

 

[Endoscopy]

I think you are just molding scriptures to justify your religious tradition that Jesus came to "Remove" as you said, His fathers instructions. I don't think Paul is saying that at all.

Romans 2:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

This sentence is the Theme of the entire Law and Prophets. It doesn't say that I justify myself, or that my Works justify me. It says those who honor God with obedience "Shall be" justified?

How are they justified?

Rom. 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. (These would by those who don't just hear His instructions, but those who "DO" them)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works?

Are they justified by the "Deeds" of the justification Laws given by Moses to the Levites? What other "Laws of Works" exist? Show me another Law of Works God gave whereby sins can be atoned for?

Nay: but by the law of faith.

And what is the Law of Faith?

Ex. 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

This is a Law of faith, Yes? Do you "believe" in this God?

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by (the Law of) faith without the deeds of the law(of Works)

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision (Jews) by faith, and uncircumcision (Gentiles) through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


What Law do we establish? the Old Priesthood "Law of Works" for justification of sins the Jews were still pushing on the Galatians??

Or the Law of FAITH that Abraham had? Remember, Abraham didn't just hear God's instructions, he was a "doer" of them.

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The Catholic church teaches, as do you, that the Messiah came to "REMOVE" God's instructions because they are just too burdensome and unjust. But the God of the Bible teaches that the Messiah came, not to remove them, but to write them on His Peoples heart so as to preserve them.

Not the "Law of Works" which was "ADDED" until the Seed should come, but the Law of Faith every example of the faithful in the Bible strived to follow.

Do any of you even know what the law is? It gets talked about a lot. Jesus said the law would last forever. What he accomplished on the cross was to remove the penalty from those who are saved by grace through faith in Jesus.

Matthew 5:17 and 18
17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.


There are 613 laws as counted and enumerated by Maimonides.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah. Maimonides counted and documented them. No one has found any more.

The 613 laws of God.
https://www.gospeloutreach.net/613laws.html

Discussion of the 613 laws of God
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

 

[Endoscopy]

What do you mean by authority over scripture. Is that like the infallibility policy of the pope, or is it something else?

Quibbling. Avoiding the issue.

 

[Endoscopy]

I answered your question.

Only in your mind!!!

 

[Lillywolf]

Quibbling. Avoiding the issue.

Strange response. It appears to me they're asking you for clarification.

 

[Endoscopy]

Strange response. It appears to me they're asking you for clarification.

Not me. Studyman!!

 

[Lillywolf]

Not me. Studyman!!

Studyman is gb9 ? Or are you saying you are Studyman? Because your judgment of Deade in post 4714 had nothing to do with you. gb9 is to whom Deade made their inquiry for further clarification in post 4712.

 

[Deade]

Jerimiah 30- God specifically tells Jerimiah these things in 31 will happen after they return to their land from Babylon.

so, if you were not in ancient Israel , about to be deported to Babylon , then be sent back, that covenant does not apply.

you just cannot pick and chose which covenant you are under, you have no authority to do so.

you have no authority over Scripture , to push some and ignore others.

you have no authority over context , and what was said to whom, and when it was said.

will you agree you have no authority to do these things?

Jeremiah 30 and 31 are not about the Babylon captivity. This is a future reference made about Israel and Judah. When Judah came back from the Babylonian captivity they were merely a vassal state. Even during Jesus’ time, Judah was still a vassal state. Does this sound like God restoring a nation?

 

[Endoscopy]

Jeremiah 30 and 31 are not about the Babylon captivity. This is a future reference made about Israel and Judah. When Judah came back from the Babylonian captivity they were merely a vassal state. Even during Jesus’ time, Judah was still a vassal state. Does this sound like God restoring a nation?

View attachment 187787

It was restored in 1947. Present day Israel!!