Can be gay and a Christian?

[Deuteronomy]

The Holy Spirit is what draws us to Christ. It is what makes us commit to follow him. Refusing that is what all these passages about unpardonable sin are about. Now if you wish to argue that then it is your turn to say what you feel the unpardonable sin is.

This thread is about willful sin, not the unforgivable sin (although if memory serves, they may have been very closely related in ancient Israel .. e.g. Numbers 15:30-31). If you'd like to continue to have a conversation about that, the NT "Unpardonable Sin", that is, a new thread needs to be started at this point (however, I will PM you a couple of links or short articles about in case you'd like to simply read about it instead).

~Deut
p.s. - just FYI, the Bible tells us that it is the Father, not the Holy Spirit, who draws us to Christ.

.........John 6
.........44 ..No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
.........

 

[seed_time_harvest]

yes:

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

HOWEVER:

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin

1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”

, to me the above verses in the greek show the difference between sinning and living a life of sin...

Also this is an awesome explanation:

John 8:34-36, “יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”






*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin[/Q

yes:

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."

HOWEVER:

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin* (#G266), transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

*#G266 hamartian ἁμαρτίαν sin

1 John 5:18, "We know that everyone having been born of YHWH does not sin* (#G264), but the one having been born of YHWH guards himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.”

, to me the above verses in the greek show the difference between sinning and living a life of sin...

Also this is an awesome explanation:

John 8:34-36, “יהושע answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone doing sin is a servant of sin. And the servant does not stay in the house forever – a son stays forever. If, then, the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.”






*#G264 hamartanei ἁμαρτάνει, continue to sin

I agree with you If you are Interpreting 1 John 1:9 to be talking about before salvation and not a continuous asking for forgiveness.

1 John 1:9
King James Version(KJV)

9.) If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

no one would be 'breaking the Law' by over-eating at a family gathering once or twice a year -
on the other hand, 'gluttony', deliberate self-abuse at the cost of one's life would definitely
be a sin-ful thing to do; against oneself and more importantly, against Jesus, The One who
has asked us to honor our temples...

No they would not If they were judging by a man's standard but GOD's standard Is perfect and the WORD says gluttony Is a sin.

I'm not saying that a person will be eternally separated from GOD for overeating because we are under Grace and not law but I am saying that we can't point the finger at someone for a bigger sin over a small smaller sin because to GOD ALL sin big or small Is against HIS standard.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Every sin is being defiant, intentional against God. It’s the very definition of sin.

Hi again Embankment, the OT actually goes to some length (particularly in the Torah) to differentiate between unintentional and intentional (presumptuous/defiant) sins, and to describe their remedy .. or lack thereof

Here is one instance of that:

.........Numbers 15
.........27 ..If a person sins unintentionally, then he shall offer a one year old female goat for a sin offering.
.........28 ..The priest shall make atonement before the LORD for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making
.........atonement for him that he may be forgiven.
.........29 ..You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for
.........the alien who sojourns among them.
.........30 ..But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the LORD; and that
.........person shall be cut off from among his people.
.........31 ..Because he has despised the word of the LORD and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off;
.........his guilt will be on him.

The sin that I am most likely to commit regularly is impatience, either with people or with situations that I find myself in. Both represent sinful behavior on my part, so both need to be repented of and need to be forgiven by God (this kind of repentance/forgiveness concerns restoring full-fellowship with God, not salvation, for any who are already born again).

I believe "impatience" is something that I fall into w/o realizing it. IOW, before I think about it or realize that I've become impatient, I'm already there, I've already committed the sin of impatience. I never shake my fist at God and scream something at Him along the lines of,
"I know you've called me to trust You in all things, but I don't care, I'm gonna yell and scream and be frustrated at these other horrible, impolite drivers anyway, even though I know full well that's not what You want me to do".

Now that last example, to me anyway, is what intentional/willful/defiant sin is. The first, on the other hand, is what I would define as unintentional. But you see no difference in the two?

I also think there is a difference between hot/cold blooded intentional sins, though I don't remember that particular difference being described in the Bible (it certainly is in our courts however, as the penalties for each are often radically different for the same crime, IOW, for a "crime of passion" ~vs~ a "premeditated crime").

~Deut

 

[oldethennew]

No they would not If they were judging by a man's standard but GOD's standard Is perfect and the WORD says gluttony Is a sin.

I'm not saying that a person will be eternally separated from GOD for overeating because we are under Grace and not law but I am saying that we can't point the finger at someone for a bigger sin over a small smaller sin because to GOD ALL sin big or small Is against HIS standard.

======================================
please, no hard feelings,
but,
you are just not getting-it!!!
think Brother for yourself and not what others have put into your 'mind'...
Jesus ways are most simple, because they are pure, as opposed to man's,
which always are in opposition to His...

 

[oldethennew]

Thank You, Deaut,
we both 'get' what you are saying, and we're sure many others as well -
leave well enough alone, as your wisdom is appreciated and accepted
by those whom our Heavenly Father has allowed...
job well done!!!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

======================================
please, no hard feelings,
but,
you are just not getting-it!!!
think Brother for yourself and not what others have put into your 'mind'...
Jesus ways are most simple, because they are pure, as opposed to man's,
which always are in opposition to His...

I got you very well as my post explained.

 

[Adstar]

there is no such thing as a 'homosexual believer". That is an oxymoron. If they are a believer in Christ they are not homosexual anymore. Jesus saved them from the sin, not in the sin.

So if one is a sinner one cannot be a believer.... That does not sound right at all.. Have you sinned in thought or deed over the last week CS1? Have you failed to do a good deed you know you should have done?

If you have are you willing to then declare yourself an unbeliever because you sinned ?

 

[JaumeJ]

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

What does Jesus teach the hypocrites about the three principles they overlooked while they applied the law to others? Mercy, faith and justice? Apply these to what you have posted, and you will be giving the mercy you would receive come the great and glorious day of the Lord, amen.

Hello Jaume,just asking,would you agree that the law has to be followed to the letter or you would be breaking the law?

The reason I ask that question Is because the bible says that gluttony Is a sin.

no one would be 'breaking the Law' by over-eating at a family gathering once or twice a year -
on the other hand, 'gluttony', deliberate self-abuse at the cost of one's life would definitely
be a sin-ful thing to do; against oneself and more importantly, against Jesus, The One who
has asked us to honor our temples...

 

[JaumeJ]

If you wish to argue the law, find a lawyer. Jesus has taught all what the status of the law is under grace, it is the same as it was always, under grace.

Those who do not understand this are yet seeing it with the veil of Moses blinding them.

David obeyed the law, yet he sinned, and he knew grace.......read Psalm 32 for evidence, just some evidence, of this.

Now find a lawyer to ask your questions.........I am not, though I understand the law under the teaching of Jesus Christ.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If you wish to argue the law, find a lawyer. Jesus has taught all what the status of the law is under grace, it is the same as it was always, under grace.

Those who do not understand this are yet seeing it with the veil of Moses blinding them.

David obeyed the law, yet he sinned, and he knew grace.......read Psalm 32 for evidence, just some evidence, of this.

Now find a lawyer to ask your questions.........I am not, though I understand the law under the teaching of Jesus Christ.

I got you,why the sarcasm?never mind.

 

[JaumeJ]

I got you,why the sarcasm?never mind.

You read sarcasm into an honest reply.

I have answered the posed question possibly 100 times in the past so now I simply ask people to find a lawyer.ñ Learn the truth about the law from Jesus, the Author of all........not a lawyer.

 

[CS1]

So if one is a sinner one cannot be a believer.... That does not sound right at all.. Have you sinned in thought or deed over the last week CS1? Have you failed to do a good deed you know you should have done?

If you have are you willing to then declare yourself an unbeliever because you sinned ?

context; sin is an action and the state of a person without Christ. If a person does a sin that sin is not their identity " homosexual believer" Not the correct way to say it. It would be a believer did a sexual sin. And if one confess thier sin is not Gof FAITHFUL to cleanse them from it? Yes he is. So the idea that we identfy with the sin is wrong. If aperson sins last wekk or what ever and it is the same sin, then they are not repented and God is not mocked. Doing or not doing good deeds has nothing to do withmy salvation. Sining tell of my relationship with God if I am continuing to do the same sin after knowing it is wrong and do it, I have a heart issue.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sin is simply defined as breaking the law.

Take it fro there without tunnel vision.........

 

[CS1]

You read sarcasm into an honest reply.

I have answered the posed question possibly 100 times in the past so now I simply ask people to find a lawyer.ñ Learn the truth about the law from Jesus, the Author of all........not a lawyer.

you do sound legalistic , and a little pharisees like. but the law has nothing to do with the context or question " can be gayand a christian"? The answer is no. no need to beat around the bush .

 

[JaumeJ]

you do sound legalistic , and a little pharisees like. but the law has nothing to do with the context or question " can be gayand a christian"? The answer is no. no need to beat around the bush .

If I give an honest eply, suggesting going to a lawyer to learn about the law according to the writings of Moses, and I also afford the true Way to understand the law, learning from Jesus Christ, I am being legalistic....

Et tu Brutus! PS...why did you change your screen name?

 

[notuptome]

you do sound legalistic , and a little pharisees like. but the law has nothing to do with the context or question " can be gayand a christian"? The answer is no. no need to beat around the bush .

Correct in that a prostitute can not be a Christian and still ply her trade. Jesus told the prostitute to go and sin no more meaning to stop her activities that she knew were against purity and holiness.

Sodomites and prostitutes can be saved but they are to be new creatures and not return to the filth of their previous lifestyle.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

Rahab, a prostitute, is in the line of Jesus Christ's geneaology. It would seem that is quite an honor for a sinner. Oh, right, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Our deeds are as filthy rags but Jesus Christ washes us all in His precious Blood, even the sins of a prostitute..........

Again, refer to the opening declarations of David, an adulterer, a merderer, and perhaps more.........His guilt was not held against him although God would not allow David to build God's Temple in Jerusalem because God saw him as having "blood guilt."

The only sin that is not or may not be pardonable is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

All too many people who claim they love are quick to hunt witches of any stature disregtarding the teachings mentioned right here and taught by our Lord and Savior, Jesus, Yeshua.

If you do not mete out mercy to others, how can you ever expect mercy for yourself. This i snot sarcasms, this is love in passing on the Word.

 

[JohnRH]

The correct answer would be NO! (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Yet some people think you could:

**link removed**

It is sad how deceived somebody can be.

The passage is describing "the unrighteous". A righteous (saved and eternally secure) person who has been "washed, sanctified, & justified" still has unredeemed flesh that has not been washed, sanctified, or justified. His flesh "cannot inherit the kingdom of God", any more than an unbeliever can (1 Corinthians 15:50). The unrighteous people in chapter 6 are unbelievers who haven't been washed, sanctified, or justified at all.

The point of the passage is that the brethren are not to take one another to court before unbelievers (judges, juries, etc.), who are not inheriting the kingdom of God.

So if a brother is committing one of the sins in the passage, he's still inheriting the kindgom; but he's subject to chastening from the Father. An example would be David when he committed adultery and was chastened for it (2 Samuel 12:10-12).

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the
Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit
incorruption.