Acts 10:44-48 and water baptism

[LW97]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

 

[Ralph-]

Just as God did not follow a set pattern in the first days of the church, neither does he now. In fact, the vast majority of people in charismatic churches do NOT get the baptism of the Spirit in power at water baptism but before, or after, through the laying on of hands.

 

[garee]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

Speaking in tongues is a work of God bringing new revelations when it was still possible...…. in other languages other than Hebrew alone.

Baptism is an old testament ceremonial law that was used when a new convert desired to serve the Lord as a kingdom of priest . It is used in the same way in the new testament when a person has a desire to get the gospel out.

Again as a ceremonial law or shadow of the good thing to come it does not provide eveidence a person has the Spirit of Christ our high Priest. Aarons two boys who used the ceremonial law inappropriately were consumed by fire yet their ceremonial clothing did not have a hint of smoke.
The Son of man subjected him self to that old testament ceriomonial law and was in need of a Levite called John the Baptist to perform the ceremony. One he was baptized he was prepared to out I the world as a member of the kingdom of priest. being officiated by a Levite he to could welcome other that had a desire to enter the priesthood of believers . Immediately after John 3 he was sent out into the wilderness as our scapegoat to begin the ministry .

It is what the dialog was in John 3:25-26 the old testament foundation of baptisms (not a sign gift confirming one has the Holy Spirit

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. John 3:25-27

 

[jb]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

Bit of a study of these subjects can be found Here and Here

 

[Noblemen]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

Wonder why Paul stopped baptizing the folk ?

 

[notuptome]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

You are correct that you are wrong. Water baptism and tongues are not contingent events. Tongues are a sign to unsaved Jews that were present and water baptism was a sign unto all that the person was saved and determined to walk in newness of life in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[LW97]

You are correct that you are wrong. Water baptism and tongues are not contingent events. Tongues are a sign to unsaved Jews that were present and water baptism was a sign unto all that the person was saved and determined to walk in newness of life in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Amen, and that's all I'm teaching, showing why baptism is important, but not part of salvation

 

[oldethennew]

for us, hub and myself, there is no question or confusion; we only desire to do as
Christ has done for us, teaching us The Father's pattern that we are to follow...

 

[Waggles]

, showing why baptism is important, but not part of salvation

how can a commandment to undergo a necessary rite to enter the Kingdom of God be important but not
part of salvation ???????
Baptism by full immersion is a commandment. It is referred to and upheld doctrinally throughout the NT.
Jesus himself declared that a disciple must be born again (born new from above) by water and by the holy Spirit.
Peter reaffirms that water baptism as integral to discipleship (and hence salvation) …

20 to disobeying ones, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared
(in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water);
21 which figure now also saves us, baptism; not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience
toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
1Peter 3:
Read Romans chapter 6 also: death, burial, resurrection in the likeness of Jesus.

And now what do you intend? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

 

[Noose]

Amen, and that's all I'm teaching, showing why baptism is important, but not part of salvation

Not important at all, does the thief on the cross teach us something?

 

[Embankment]

I agree. Baptism in water is not something for a matured Christian to be focused on.

 

[notuptome]

how can a commandment to undergo a necessary rite to enter the Kingdom of God be important but not
part of salvation ???????
Baptism by full immersion is a commandment. It is referred to and upheld doctrinally throughout the NT.
Jesus himself declared that a disciple must be born again (born new from above) by water and by the holy Spirit.
Peter reaffirms that water baptism as integral to discipleship (and hence salvation) …

20 to disobeying ones, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared
(in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water);
21 which figure now also saves us, baptism; not a putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience
toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ;
1Peter 3:
Read Romans chapter 6 also: death, burial, resurrection in the likeness of Jesus.

And now what do you intend? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Acts 22:16

Salvation is by grace not by rites. Rites are works of men and do not make one saved. You simply have a wrong understanding of the scriptures surrounding baptism and fail to distinguish between water and Holy Spirit baptism.

Holy Spirit baptism administered only by God saves souls. Water baptism administered by men only testifies before other men. Only men who are already saved may receive water baptism. Lost souls must receive Holy Spirit baptism to become saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

Holy Spirit baptism administered only by God saves souls. Water baptism administered by men only testifies before other men. Only men who are already saved may receive water baptism. Lost souls must receive Holy Spirit baptism to become saved.

That is only one half of the gospel delivered by Jesus and the Apostles.
Throughout Acts and the epistles it is clearly taught and upheld that all disciples are to ber baptised in water and in
the Holy Spirit.
One must be born new by water and the Spirit.

44 While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that
on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so
much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues,
and prophesied.
Acts 19:

 

[Waggles]

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan, to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?
15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him.
16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:

Here again we have both water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism - shown to be approved of by the Father.
A disciple emulates his Master and follows his example and teaching, desiring to also be a good son approved and
beloved by one's Father in Heaven.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the
end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:

 

[Noose]

13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to Jordan, to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John restrained Him, saying, I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?
15 And answering Jesus said to him, Allow it now, for it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed Him.
16 And Jesus, when He had been baptized, went up immediately out of the water. And lo, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting upon Him.
17 And lo, a voice from Heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Matthew 3:

Here again we have both water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism - shown to be approved of by the Father.
A disciple emulates his Master and follows his example and teaching, desiring to also be a good son approved and
beloved by one's Father in Heaven.

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth.
19 Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the
end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:

The thief on the cross did not fulfill 'all righteousness' and yet made it to heaven that same day. Maybe you just misunderstood.

 

[Waggles]

The thief on the cross did not fulfill 'all righteousness' and yet made it to heaven that same day. Maybe you just misunderstood.

The thief is not of the NT but under Law.
As to making it to Heaven that is speculative at best.
In the NT (from the day of Pentecost onwards) disciples are baptised in water and in the Holy Spirit -
with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues.

1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the
foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:

 

[Noose]

The thief is not of the NT but under Law.
As to making it to Heaven that is speculative at best.
In the NT (from the day of Pentecost onwards) disciples are baptised in water and in the Holy Spirit -
with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues.

1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the
foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:

The thief came way after John the baptist. So IOW you are saying John the baptist and water baptism belong to the OT or the law, then why do you insist it in the NT?

Jesus promised the thief paradise that same day, we all know paradise is not in hell, so we are not speculating when we say he was in heaven.

Saying the thief followed the law is speculative- i mean he was thief so broke the law. But we know he believed in Jesus and this is faith that is needed in the NT.

 

[JaumeJ]

It seems to me the thief who was saved on the cross was saved because he believed Jesus Christ........

 

[notuptome]

That is only one half of the gospel delivered by Jesus and the Apostles.
Throughout Acts and the epistles it is clearly taught and upheld that all disciples are to ber baptised in water and in
the Holy Spirit.
One must be born new by water and the Spirit.

44 While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that
on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 10:

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so
much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe
on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues,
and prophesied.
Acts 19:

You impute to water baptism benefits to salvation that are not given by God. Holy Spirit baptism saves and water baptism testifies to men.

Jews baptized in water throughout the OT and they did so only for testimonies sake.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[bluto]

The thief is not of the NT but under Law.
As to making it to Heaven that is speculative at best.
In the NT (from the day of Pentecost onwards) disciples are baptised in water and in the Holy Spirit -
with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues.

1 Therefore, having left the discourse of the beginning of Christ, let us go on to full growth, not laying again the
foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 of the baptisms, of doctrine, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hebrews 6:

Look at what your saying waggles? "The thief is not of the NT but under Law." Ok, then please explain how it is that the thief (who you say is under the Law) able to be in Paradise with Jesus Christ that day without him following any rite such as water baptism? In other words, what your saying (and obviously you don't realize what your saying) it is easier for those under the law like the thief that simply acknowledged his sin to Jesus Christ while on the cross he ends up making it to paradise without getting water baptized which is a work/rite.

Moreover, if you wold read the order of events at Acts 10:45 they received the gift of the Holy Spirit like Peter and the Jews did "BEFORE" getting water baptized. Furthermore, vs46 confirms the correct order since the first word at vs 46 is "For" or becasue they were hearing them speaking with tongues or languages they had never learned by magnifing God according to the Day of Pentecost at Acts 2:4. Btw, why invoke Hebrews 6 into this conversation which has nothing to do with what's going on here at Acts?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto