Acts 10:44-48 and water baptism

[Waggles]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
AndG2532 JesusG2424 saidG2036 unto him,G846 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto thee,G4671 To dayG4594 shalt thou beG2071 withG3326 meG1700 inG1722 paradise. G3857

G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park
H6508 פּרדּס pardês
Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.

Jesus told the thief that he would be in the earth that day as well (as Jesus himself would be).
The thief on the cross died under the OT and has nothing whatsoever to do with the New Covenant that would
be brought in afterwards.
Read your NT - water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism go together. Both are commanded and both are essential to
obedience to the gospel and discipleship.

 

[Waggles]

4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb
and be born again?
5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again.
John 3:

 

[Embankment]

That passage alone negates water baptism.

 

[Noose]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
AndG2532 JesusG2424 saidG2036 unto him,G846 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto thee,G4671 To dayG4594 shalt thou beG2071 withG3326 meG1700 inG1722 paradise. G3857

G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park
H6508 פּרדּס pardês
Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.

Jesus told the thief that he would be in the earth that day as well (as Jesus himself would be).
The thief on the cross died under the OT and has nothing whatsoever to do with the New Covenant that would
be brought in afterwards.
Read your NT - water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism go together. Both are commanded and both are essential to
obedience to the gospel and discipleship.

Paradise also means earth!! Nice try but it is not working.

There's nothing OT about that thief- he was a thief, meaning that he broke the law. Breaking the law doesn't take people to paradise, but what he did was the most NT thing ever. He is the first example of a NT saint:

1. He repented of his sins- when he acknowledged he was on the wrong
2. He confessed his sins
3. and he believed on the one who could save him- faith

These are the things that make the difference in the NT.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

In Acts 10, the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Gentiles FIRST, after which they were commanded to be baptized. In this case, the Gentiles spoke in tongues in order to convince the Jews (including Peter) that they had indeed received the gift of the Holy Ghost. Tongues were a "sign" to Jews. But there is only one other example in Acts where those who received the Spirit spoke in tongues.

However, we should take what happened in Acts 2 as the norm. While the apostles and the disciples spoke in tongues to prove that the Holy Spirit had been given on the day of Pentecost, the 3,000 Jews who were saved on that day were simply baptized. There is no record that all those converted Jews spoke in tongues after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Since then millions of people have received the gift of the Spirit and been baptized, but have NOT spoken in tongues. However, their salvation was genuine.

 

[garee]

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Luke 23:43
AndG2532 JesusG2424 saidG2036 unto him,G846 VerilyG281 I sayG3004 unto thee,G4671 To dayG4594 shalt thou beG2071 withG3326 meG1700 inG1722 paradise. G3857

G3857 παράδεισος paradeisos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park
H6508 פּרדּס pardês
Of foreign origin; a park: - forest, orchard.

Jesus told the thief that he would be in the earth that day as well (as Jesus himself would be).
The thief on the cross died under the OT and has nothing whatsoever to do with the New Covenant that would
be brought in afterwards.
Read your NT - water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism go together. Both are commanded and both are essential to
obedience to the gospel and discipleship.

Water, the temporal as that seen is used as a metaphor as that not seen to represent the eternal things of God (the Holy Spirit) .We walk by faith and not by sight after the temporal things of this world

Water baptism or washing, as a shadow of the good things to come is a old testament ceremonial purification rite. And not a new testament principle as a outward evidence one has been born again but one that continues having it foundation in the old testament

It was exercised every time a new member of the priesthood of believers had a desire to serve in the ministry of God. As a shadow it had no redeeming value as some sort of a sign indicating a person had the Holy Spirit.

When Aarons two sons had a desire to become a part of the ministry of believers(kingdom of priest) they as their own oral tradition added strange fire to it in a hope of making it into what some call a sign indicating they were born again. They went up in smoke and the ceremonial clothing did not have the smell of smoke . Like tongues it becme a sign against them showing they did not have the Holy Spirit.

We can see that old testament purifying rite being discused with John a Levite and other Jews . (John 3:25)

John who officiated the baptism of Jesus fulling his desire to become a member of the priesthood. So that then being baptized Jesus could officiate the ceremonial law and baptize others .Immediately be sent out in the dessert as our scapegoat to begin his ministry as our High Priest .

In effect they questioned John from the family of Levi. Why would Jesus for the tribe of Judah officiate the ceremonial law as if he was from the order of Levites, the kingdom of priest as the Christians today ?

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying. And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. John3:25-27













:

 

[LW97]

That passage alone negates water baptism.

amen

Of course, depends. It does not negate water baptism in general. It just negates salvation through baptism

 

[Waggles]

And yet in the gifts of prophecy spoken by the Holy Spirit, God reaffirms the fundamentals of water baptism
many times.
Jesus continues to preach and uphold the commandment that a disciple must be water baptised by full immersion
and also to be baptised in the Holy Spirit.

 

[BenFTW]

I agree. Baptism in water is not something for a matured Christian to be focused on.

I don't think one can be a mature Christian without having been water baptized, or rather a mature Christian will have been baptized and encourage others to do likewise. It is our first act of obedience once believing in Christ. Why would we oppose a command given by the Lord because we think it does nothing? Whether we understand its significance or not, it is still to be acted out. No, not for salvation (as that is by faith) but because Jesus is Lord, and He has told disciples to do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

 

[BenFTW]

I don't think one can be a mature Christian without having been water baptized, or rather a mature Christian will have been baptized and encourage others to do likewise. It is our first act of obedience once believing in Christ. Why would we oppose a command given by the Lord because we think it does nothing? Whether we understand its significance or not, it is still to be acted out. No, not for salvation (as that is by faith) but because Jesus is Lord, and He has told disciples to do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

Truly though, baptism in water should be accompanied with an explanation of what it entails. What does it symbolize?

Romans 6:3-12 King James Version (KJV)

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

 

[DianaO]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

Can we say grace appears in order of appearance? First ya gotta have faith, then you gotta confess your sins, then you gotta be redeemed, then you gotta get baptized, then the holy spirit of God sparks to life within you, and then.....

Maybe see that scripture you posted as proof God's saving grace is for all people. Not just the Jews. While the Gentiles were gathered there among Peter and his numbered companions, the holy spirit falling on the Gentiles was an outward God given sign of a universal covenant. That Jesus died to save all people not just the Jews.
And that's why Peter said what he did about letting the Gentiles be baptized also. Because God showed them through his holy spirit anointing of the Gentiles that the Gentiles were to be born of water, reborn of water, too.

Which brings up another question. What of those indigenous people for whom immersion in water is not possible? Are they not to be considered regenerated because they weren't dunked under water in Jesus name?
I'm thinking of people in third world countries and desert areas where water is scarce. Making submersion in water near impossible. Maybe that they were born of water from the womb is enough as a first step. And when they find Christ they spirit takes its place because God knows their condition.

 

[Locutus]

Truly though, baptism in water should be accompanied with an explanation of what it entails. What does it symbolize?

Romans 6:3-12 King James Version (KJV)

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

This is not a valid argument for or against baptism Ben, Paul is using a theological argument in "figures" to get his point across about a believer "reckoning" themselves dead to sin in Christ and alive to God.

The symbolism/figure if pushed too far does not work such as "our old man is crucified with him" does not relate to being immersed in water.

I was saved for nearly 3 years before being immersed in water - but I still considered I was dead with Christ and was certainly alive to God.

 

[Noose]

I don't think one can be a mature Christian without having been water baptized, or rather a mature Christian will have been baptized and encourage others to do likewise. It is our first act of obedience once believing in Christ. Why would we oppose a command given by the Lord because we think it does nothing? Whether we understand its significance or not, it is still to be acted out. No, not for salvation (as that is by faith) but because Jesus is Lord, and He has told disciples to do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

Then Catholics must be the most mature Christians around for they literally eat the body of Christ and drink his blood.

You can not say that we must follow because we don't understand. It has been said that we are the children of the light and children of the light means we must understand what we do and why we do it. The scripture has explained what water baptism is:

John 1:
24Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
26“I baptize withe water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”
28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.

The reason John did what he did was to identify the Messiah but i can not tell why it should be done today.
John himself testified and said he baptizes with water but the one after him will baptize with fire, if anyone is to follow commands without understanding them, they should be tossing people in fire rather than immersing them in water. When Jesus says go and baptize in the name of the Father/Son/Holy spirit, water should be the last thing in your mind.

 

[JaumeJ]

And yet in the gifts of prophecy spoken by the Holy Spirit, God reaffirms the fundamentals of water baptism
many times.
Jesus continues to preach and uphold the commandment that a disciple must be water baptised by full immersion
and also to be baptised in the Holy Spirit.

It is the least one may do in imitating Jesus, Yeshua. Having said this, I do not judge anyone not baptized as living in some form of sin............good conscience in the sight of God? That is all I need to know.

 

[Embankment]

Jesus himself says being angry ranks as high as murder. All have the same consequence. Death!

 

[LW97]

I don't think one can be a mature Christian without having been water baptized, or rather a mature Christian will have been baptized and encourage others to do likewise. It is our first act of obedience once believing in Christ. Why would we oppose a command given by the Lord because we think it does nothing? Whether we understand its significance or not, it is still to be acted out. No, not for salvation (as that is by faith) but because Jesus is Lord, and He has told disciples to do it in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

I agree water baptism is important, not for salvation, but for what follows afterwards

 

[peacefulbeliever]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

It seems to me that when the Gentiles received the gift of holy Spirit - they spoke in tongues, magnifying God - THEN were water baptized. So, they didn't speak in tongues because they were baptized in water BUT because they were baptized with holy Spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. These Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE receiving water baptism - Acts 10:47.

 

[MattforJesus]

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

We see, those disciples got water baptized after being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, not the other way. Does God change? I think not.

But, it seems like you could not speak in tongues without water baptism. I could be wrong but this passage seems to teach that the spiritual gifts are received with water baptism.

Some people do not receive the Spirit until after water baptism.

Which they will receive the Spirit when they submit to the Lord, which repentance is to repent of past sins, and hate sin, and do not want sin, and want to turn away from sins.

We know repentance comes before water baptism, or receiving the Spirit.

But the Bible says that some people have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and it points out their sins, and they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, which they like to enjoy worldliness.

Which these people did not understand that they have to abstain from sins to be right with God, but thought they were alright despite holding unto sin.

They had a form of godliness, for the labored for the kingdom, showed somewhat a godly lifestyle, but repented of their sins of the past, and sins they did, but held unto some sins and thought they were right with God.

And there are many like that who do not understand that sin does affect their relationship with God, and by the Spirit they can abstain from sins, but they deny the power thereof and enjoy sins.

But the Bible says the Lord knows them that are His having this seal, for this is what seals the saints, and how they are led of the Spirit, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

That is why Jesus said not everyone that says Lord, Lord, will be able to enter heaven, for they did not do the will of the Father, and that they were workers of iniquity.

A person will receive the Spirit when they submit to the Lord, which sin separates us from God, but some Churches do not preach that sin does affect their relationship with God, producing many that have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

They say they cannot abstain from sins, and sin daily, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, which they testify against themselves they do sin, and many hold unto sin for they think they cannot beat it.

But it is not that they cannot abstain from sin, but they want to enjoy sin, and then have an excuse for it, for nobody forced them to sin, and when they sin they enjoyed the sin, so they did it on purpose.

But the Bible says if they willingly sin after having the knowledge of sin there is no more sacrifice for sin, which many hold unto sin and the blood of Christ cannot wash it away for God will not take away something they hold unto to.

Their interpretation of the Bible is flesh oriented to where they can enjoy the things of the flesh and still be right with God.

They will justify war, and fighting, and God blesses them with money and material things for their wants, and has nothing to do with their needs, and enjoy worldly entertainment, movies, and television shows, and music, and justify drinking alcohol, and marijuana, and things that pertain to the flesh.

And think they are still right with God and it does not affect their salvation, but the Bible says abstain from fleshy lusts that war against the soul.

But then they are led of the flesh and not the Spirit, and we are only saved if we are led of the Spirit.

They say their sin does not affect their relationship with God, and despite their sins want to think they are led of the Spirit and clean inside, but Jesus said what is inside is what will come out, for out of the heart comes their true identity, which if they sin thinking that they are still saved when they sin then that is what is in them, then how are they clean inside.

Many people do not receive the Spirit for they do not preach the holiness of God in their Church.

A person will receive the Spirit when they submit to the Lord, and sin separates us from God.

Many are called, but few are chosen, and no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, and many people are not chosen for they fall short of receiving the truth in their life, although God is working with them.

 

[LW97]

Some people do not receive the Spirit until after water baptism.

Is God a respecter of persons? either all persons receive it with or without water baptism