Can be gay and a Christian?

[DiscipleDave]

I am not defending the lifestyle of the gays but I would have to disagree with the op and before everyone gets upset allow me to explain. I like to help troubled people and in pm's I have helped many many people in their struggles and one of the struggles I have had to help with is the gays. You would be surprised how many people love God and want more than anything to live as he does and to be his light on the world but struggle with such desires.

i also have counseled many Homosexuals who desire nothing more than to live as a Christian. i know homosexual men who do not practice any homosexual acts, but are celibate and claim they will remain that way, and these walk a more Christ like life then those i know that are Heterosexuals who claim to be Christians.

We don't get to choose our sexual attractiveness when we are born

The false doctrine teaches they do choose. A person is born blind, it is a defect. A person is born deformed, it is a defect. A person is born with autism, it is a defect. But it is not possible for a person to be born with the defect of being attracted to the same sex. Really? The problem with this generation is they don't believe a person is born being a Heterosexual or Homosexual, that somehow based on our environment that we grow up in, determines who we will be attracted to and who we will not be attracted to. This generation is wrong, and that ideology can be easily disproved from hundreds of case studies done on that topic.

When a fetus is developing, and the DNA and everything is coming together, to make eyes that see, ears that hear, hearts that beat, mind that works, etc.. etc.. The part that determines who your attracted to is suppose to be to the opposite sex. But we know that all these things can go wrong, the eyes don't get put together quite right, and that person is born blind, or the ears don't get put together quite right, and that person is born deaf.

Being born with sight is considered "Normal"
Being born with hearing is considered "Normal"
Being born Heterosexual is considered "Normal"
Are all born with sight? no
Are all born with Hearing? no
Are all born Heterosexual? no, is the correct answer. it is a defect, something did not get put together quite right. Now the Homosexual will be upset with me because i tell them the TRUTH it is a defect. Christians will get upset with me because i tell them the TRUTH, that Homosexuals can go to Heaven, but i Love you both, i do.

We don't get to choose our sexual attractiveness when we are born and even when we are saved sometimes these desires don't simply go away in fact sometimes they are chains in which people constantly bear but look to Jesus for the key to their shackles.

One can be saved but that doesn't mean that desires like that will disappear and many who have to deal with this are very confused why God doesn't take it away and are constantly under heavy fire from other Christians because they are (gay) posts like this are the ones that break people who have to struggle with such things,

i agree, because people who teach such things are devoid of the TRUTH, even though they are usually the ones who claim the loudest they know the truth.

many end up believing they are going to hell and some lose faith all together because instead of being helped and guided and built up in faith they were broken down attacked and hell bound by those who they came to seek help from.

Jesus Christ told us to Love One Another, not condemn them. Anyone who teaches such nonsense as "All Homosexuals are going to Hell" or "NO Homosexual can be a Christian" will indeed be judged by God exactly as they have Judged them. And that is not going to be in their favor.

We are the ones who claim to bear his name on our hearts, we are the ones who are said to be love more so than the regular standard and our job is to help the weak and the broken, to guide them teach them build them up and show them they are far more than what they think they are, not to attack badger and break down. It's easy to say such things and to rebuke the gays but unless one understands the struggles they are dealing with and the chains they bear then what good does it do? I have known many who struggle with such things and yet vigilantly seek him out with all their hearts.

Homosexual Christians will enter into the Kingdom before they will. sad.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

DiscipleDave said:


The Bible is clear that the Homosexual ACT is what is sinful. YOU add that being a homosexual (which merely means you are attracted to the same sex) is what is sinful too. This Scriptures does not do.

This generation would do well to believe what the Word of God actually says and teaches, not believe what people teach the Word of God should mean.

Dave, you have already proven to most that your views fall way short of correct..

Please do not give me credit for the views that i teach, they are not mine but what God told me. Thanks.

dcontroversal said "Christians do fail and sin all the time, but most seem to forget that being gay or homosexual has a particular application of the word of God which goes above and beyond just a believer sinning....The bible is clear, homosexuals have reached the end of the proverbial rope and God states clearly that he has GIVEN THEM OVER to a reprobate MIND void of spiritual judgment and that the only thing to expect is the judgment of God...."

...I never said one word concerning what you accuse me of..

i accuse you of what you said above. Did you not say what i quoted you saying above? The statement above condemns Homosexual as having a reprobate mind. which i say you are adding to the Scriptures. The Word of God does not say Homosexual have a reprobate mind, that is something you are adding, and teaching it as TRUTH, are you not doing that? Scriptures are clear that Homosexual ACTS are an abomination, and those who practice continually any kind of sin without ceasing from them, has indeed a reprobate mind. But as i have plainly said before, and say even now, Being a Homsexual is not what is sinful. but ACTING upon it, that is what is sinful according to the Word of God. You have condemned Homosexuals to a reprobate mind, have you not? Just read what you said above, and this is evident that you have condemned them already, according to YOU, but not according to Scriptures. So my accusation is True, because that is what you said.

..not to mention the words of Jesus himself prove your stance false....If you THINK IT, YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE IT.....GO LEARN THE WORD OF GOD MAN!!

Lol. let me assume that you are Heterosexual. Are you telling me, if you see a female model on TV and think she is attractive that you have committed sin? Seriously, that is what you are suggesting right?

What mans a man a Homosexual? When a man is attracted to men. That is what makes him a Homosexual. What makes a person a Heterosexual? When a man is attracted to women. Tell me dcontroversal, if your married, does being attracted to other women cease to happen? Really? Are you trying to tell me, if you are married that you are no longer attracted to the opposite sex? Because according to your logic, if you are attracted to the opposite sex, being married, because you thought it, you done it, right?

You do error not understanding what it is God had revealed to me, concerning this topic.

A man is attracted to men. He has never thought about any kind of sex with men, ever, He just knows he is attracted to men. Tell me, what verse in all of Scriptures says this man sins? What verse teaches this man has a reprobate mind? Don't people teach that it is sinful merely because who you are attracted to? i doubt you will even show any verse, because there are none. dcontroversal says that all homosexuals have a reprobate mind, therefore must be TRUE. lol, God forbid. Now you can come back with. that i say my screenname is going to be mentioned to people on Judgment Day, to skirt having to try to answer the questions that i present to you in this post. sigh .. ..

GO LEARN THE WORD OF GOD MAN!!

As everyone should brother. Reading it front to back, on my 85th time, still learning it. Just curious though, how many times have you read the entire Word front to back? just wandering.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

"And that is what some of you once were, but now you are changed..." "And now you must lay aside the misdeeds of the body." "Do not be deceived, anyone who lives like this will not enter heaven."

Amen, Scriptures plainly teach to put off the deeds of the flesh, to put off that sin that so easily besets us, to no longer obey the flesh and its desires. But with generation we see Nicolaitans teaching against Homosexuals all the while they look at porn continually. Eager to point fingers at others, as long as they don't have to deal with self. Nocolaitans struggle with flesh as well, but as long as its not Homosexual thoughts, then they are better than them. Easy to point fingers and comment AGAINST them, instead of dealing with the mote that in their own eyes.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

can you be a thief or a liar and a Christian?

or would you stop identifying yourself as a such things, even though you may still stumble and commit such sins?

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Scriptures are TRUE, and can't be broken. Any person, no matter what they claim with their mouths, that continue to lie without ceasing, ARE LIARS, and these will NOT enter into Heaven, not matter what they say with their mouths, like "I'm a Christian", "I'm Saved", or what have you. Scriptures plainly teaches us to put off lying one to another. Woe to those who hear, but do not DO what the Word of God teaches them to do.

Those who practice sin, and have not got rid of that sin that so easily besets them, have NOT OVERCOME that sin, have they? Woe to this generation who believes in easy Christianity. (Believe only and you are Heaven bound) There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth, when Christ gets here, and they learn they are the goats in the parable.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[CS1]

The Bible is clear that the Homosexual ACT is what is sinful. YOU add that being a homosexual (which merely means you are attracted to the same sex) is what is sinful too. This Scriptures does not do.

This generation would do well to believe what the Word of God actually says and teaches, not believe what people teach the Word of God should mean.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

lol homosexual definition is not more meaning that, than gay means happy. Come on. same attraction to the same sex is not the same as attraction one has with the opposite sex. One is created by God for reproduction the other for sexual gratification of the flesh. as Rom 1 says .

 

[UnderGrace]

The Bible is clear that the Homosexual ACT is what is sinful. YOU add that being a homosexual (which merely means you are attracted to the same sex) is what is sinful too. This Scriptures does not do.

This generation would do well to believe what the Word of God actually says and teaches, not believe what people teach the Word of God should mean.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Lusting after a woman is sinful, Jesus plainly states this, therefore a man lusting after another man is also sin.

The false doctrine teaches they do choose. A person is born blind, it is a defect. A person is born deformed, it is a defect. A person is born with autism, it is a defect. But it is not possible for a person to be born with the defect of being attracted to the same sex. Really? The problem with this generation is they don't believe a person is born being a Heterosexual or Homosexual, that somehow based on our environment that we grow up in, determines who we will be attracted to and who we will not be attracted to. This generation is wrong, and that ideology can be easily disproved from hundreds of case studies done on that topic.

I would refrain from speaking on the causes of autism because you have no expertise in this area. You are not certified to diagnose autism.
Defects in hearing and the eye are far different from the etiology of autism.

I would refrain from stating that there is evidence that homosexuality is prenatal there is no evidence to support this theory.

I am just wondering now if you believe a person can be gender fluid and this is also determined prenatally as a defect?
I am also wondering if a person is defected prenatally with attraction to young boys?

What you are espousing is identity politics not biblical understanding.

 

[BibleStudent100]

The correct answer would be NO! (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Yet some people think you could:

**link removed**

It is sad how deceived somebody can be.

Many previous Christians in this room have accurately quoted scriptures about God's view on homosexuality. However, if one has gay inclinations but does NOT act on them (i.e. leads a life of celibacy), then sin is not committed. In my church we have a young sister who is making fine spiritual progress, but she lead a lesbian life style in previous years. She has the option to remain single and celibate or get married into a heterosexual marriage. These are her Christian options.

 

[BibleStudent100]

Lusting after a woman is sinful, Jesus plainly states this, therefore a man lusting after another man is also sin.



I would refrain from speaking on the causes of autism because you have no expertise in this area. You are not certified to diagnose autism.
Defects in hearing and the eye are far different from the etiology of autism.

I would refrain from stating that there is evidence that homosexuality is prenatal there is no evidence to support this theory.

I am just wondering now if you believe a person can be gender fluid and this is also determined prenatally as a defect?
I am also wondering if a person is defected prenatally with attraction to young boys?

What you are espousing is identity politics not biblical understanding.

The Bible is silent on the supposed genetic or biological causes of wrongdoing (e.g. do some humans have a biological weakness toward drunkedness or homosexuality); it simply addresses the behavior of wickedness. But even if there is some scientific evidence for a predelection toward Biblical wrongdoing, this "natural" weakness toward unscriptural behavior does not preclude one from upholding God's high standards on morality. After all, due to Adamic sin, we all have a general weakness toward sinful behavior.

 

[UnderGrace]

The Bible is silent on the supposed genetic or biological causes of wrongdoing (e.g. do some humans have a biological weakness toward drunkedness or homosexuality); it simply addresses the behavior of wickedness. But even if there is some scientific evidence for a predelection toward Biblical wrongdoing, this "natural" weakness toward unscriptural behavior does not preclude one from upholding God's high standards on morality. After all, due to Adamic sin, we all have a general weakness toward sinful behavior.

Neither is there conclusive scientific evidence regarding what Mr. Dave was espousing.

Other than that of course sin is destructive and not what God desires for us.

 

[LaJolla]

And what is the Holy Spirit saying? Believe that Jesus is the son of God. It all boils down to the same thing.

Not if you've witnessed the power of the Holy Spirit and known how silently, dynamically and transcendentally she moves to heal, preserve, convict, encourage, comfort, crush evil, give understanding, bind the opposition, etc, etc... Mysterious Ways indeed. Rather more than just 'believe that Jesus is the Son of God'. That's for sure, but there is gifting and blessings we can not grasp with our mortal mind.

ps, are you in londontown? M

 

[Tina2018]

The correct answer would be NO! (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Yet some people think you could:

**link removed**

It is sad how deceived somebody can be.

Are you God? Are you Jesus?
Who put you in the position to judge anyone? Is one sin greater then another, cause we all sin and fall short of perfection. Why is someone elses sin greater then yours?

 

[dcontroversal]

Please do not give me credit for the views that i teach, they are not mine but what God told me. Thanks.






i accuse you of what you said above. Did you not say what i quoted you saying above? The statement above condemns Homosexual as having a reprobate mind. which i say you are adding to the Scriptures. The Word of God does not say Homosexual have a reprobate mind, that is something you are adding, and teaching it as TRUTH, are you not doing that? Scriptures are clear that Homosexual ACTS are an abomination, and those who practice continually any kind of sin without ceasing from them, has indeed a reprobate mind. But as i have plainly said before, and say even now, Being a Homsexual is not what is sinful. but ACTING upon it, that is what is sinful according to the Word of God. You have condemned Homosexuals to a reprobate mind, have you not? Just read what you said above, and this is evident that you have condemned them already, according to YOU, but not according to Scriptures. So my accusation is True, because that is what you said.




Lol. let me assume that you are Heterosexual. Are you telling me, if you see a female model on TV and think she is attractive that you have committed sin? Seriously, that is what you are suggesting right?

What mans a man a Homosexual? When a man is attracted to men. That is what makes him a Homosexual. What makes a person a Heterosexual? When a man is attracted to women. Tell me dcontroversal, if your married, does being attracted to other women cease to happen? Really? Are you trying to tell me, if you are married that you are no longer attracted to the opposite sex? Because according to your logic, if you are attracted to the opposite sex, being married, because you thought it, you done it, right?

You do error not understanding what it is God had revealed to me, concerning this topic.

A man is attracted to men. He has never thought about any kind of sex with men, ever, He just knows he is attracted to men. Tell me, what verse in all of Scriptures says this man sins? What verse teaches this man has a reprobate mind? Don't people teach that it is sinful merely because who you are attracted to? i doubt you will even show any verse, because there are none. dcontroversal says that all homosexuals have a reprobate mind, therefore must be TRUE. lol, God forbid. Now you can come back with. that i say my screenname is going to be mentioned to people on Judgment Day, to skirt having to try to answer the questions that i present to you in this post. sigh .. ..



As everyone should brother. Reading it front to back, on my 85th time, still learning it. Just curious though, how many times have you read the entire Word front to back? just wandering.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I suggest you read Romans pal....my stance is biblical and God is the one that gives them over to a reprobate mind...you really have no understanding of the word....!

 

[Embankment]

Many are on the broad and wide path that leads to destruction, but because narrow and difficult is the path that leads to life everlasting, there only will be a very few who will find that path.

Many think they are on that narrow and difficult path, even though they live in easy Christianity, and cheap grace.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Grace is a gift

 

[tourist]

i also have counseled many Homosexuals who desire nothing more than to live as a Christian. i know homosexual men who do not practice any homosexual acts, but are celibate and claim they will remain that way, and these walk a more Christ like life then those i know that are Heterosexuals who claim to be Christians.



The false doctrine teaches they do choose. A person is born blind, it is a defect. A person is born deformed, it is a defect. A person is born with autism, it is a defect. But it is not possible for a person to be born with the defect of being attracted to the same sex. Really? The problem with this generation is they don't believe a person is born being a Heterosexual or Homosexual, that somehow based on our environment that we grow up in, determines who we will be attracted to and who we will not be attracted to. This generation is wrong, and that ideology can be easily disproved from hundreds of case studies done on that topic.

When a fetus is developing, and the DNA and everything is coming together, to make eyes that see, ears that hear, hearts that beat, mind that works, etc.. etc.. The part that determines who your attracted to is suppose to be to the opposite sex. But we know that all these things can go wrong, the eyes don't get put together quite right, and that person is born blind, or the ears don't get put together quite right, and that person is born deaf.

Being born with sight is considered "Normal"
Being born with hearing is considered "Normal"
Being born Heterosexual is considered "Normal"
Are all born with sight? no
Are all born with Hearing? no
Are all born Heterosexual? no, is the correct answer. it is a defect, something did not get put together quite right. Now the Homosexual will be upset with me because i tell them the TRUTH it is a defect. Christians will get upset with me because i tell them the TRUTH, that Homosexuals can go to Heaven, but i Love you both, i do.




i agree, because people who teach such things are devoid of the TRUTH, even though they are usually the ones who claim the loudest they know the truth.



Jesus Christ told us to Love One Another, not condemn them. Anyone who teaches such nonsense as "All Homosexuals are going to Hell" or "NO Homosexual can be a Christian" will indeed be judged by God exactly as they have Judged them. And that is not going to be in their favor.



Homosexual Christians will enter into the Kingdom before they will. sad.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I believe that in the case of most homosexuals is that they are wired that way in their brain since birth or shortly thereafter.

 

[UnderGrace]

I believe that in the case of most homosexuals is that they are wired that way in their brain since birth or shortly thereafter.

Where is the evidence for this?

 

[tourist]

Where is the evidence for this?

I just can't imagine anyone in their right mind that would chose to become a homosexual. I guess that any evidence that I could suggest would be the testimony of the homosexuals who explained that there was an attraction to the same sex at an early age. Regardless, being a homosexual is not a sin but acting on the impulses probably is. Same for heterosexuals too that have sex outside of marriage. I really don't see why this group cannot be considered a Christian, yeah, like heterosexual Christians are still Christian even though they all have sinned. Personally, I feel sorry for some homosexuals, to avoid sin they must remain celibate their entire life. Makes no sense to me spending a lifetime lonely and nothing you can do about it.

 

[UnderGrace]

I just can't imagine anyone in their right mind that would chose to become a homosexual. I guess that any evidence that I could suggest would be the testimony of the homosexuals who explained that there was an attraction to the same sex at an early age. Regardless, being a homosexual is not a sin but acting on the impulses probably is. Same for heterosexuals too that have sex outside of marriage. I really don't see why this group cannot be considered a Christian, yeah, like heterosexual Christians are still Christian even though they all have sinned. Personally, I feel sorry for some homosexuals, to avoid sin they must remain celibate their entire life. Makes no sense to me spending a lifetime lonely and nothing you can do about it.

Actually they do not have to be alone and celibate, that is the result of wrongfully thinking that they are wired that way with no recourse or way out. God is more than able to deliver them.

 

[NayborBear]

It is fairly obvious that some people are blinded! Or their "faith" has apostasized so far as one's not being able to discern those who delight in doing evil, and then enjoy their unabashedness, in striving against Chritianity, and God's children, in their justification of it! AND WINNING!

Tis a "spiritual malady/sickness" homo's have! Tis a "lusting of the flesh", as these types are forbidden, in acquiring salvation! These types are as just as accursed as "fallen ones/nephieum" and should receive the same treatment!

The troubles commence when striving to "connect" with the poor soul/s that have been spiritually Overrun, by these varmits!

 

[Adstar]

that is a false narrative " So repented to you means that a person has ceased sinning". No that is is not what I said at all. You read into my statement by the biases you have in your Biblical understanding.
Sin is two things, two.

1. the state of all persons without salvation in Christ aka "sinners" born into sin and have the nature to sin. All have sinned an fallen short of the Glory of God Rom 3:23.

2. wilful disobedience after coming to the understanding of Gods Law or standard.

The argument of the Christian saved, a born-again person does not sin is not what I see in the bible. The Christian will as they are in the Sanctification process will " Grow in the Grace and Knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." 2 Peter 3:18

In that growth and coming to the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ they will not have a continued struggle with the same sin. The only reason why we continue to do the act of sin after being saved is that we have not turned over that part of our Heart to the Lord. This is a very serious place to be, the contrast too is seen biblically read Matthew 5:27-29

So then if you are still sinning you're in a ""very serious place to be"" So one can only conclude that you are in a very serious place now because you have failed to cease sinning right?? Since you should not have any struggles with the same sins...

Jesus is saying to deal with a "sin " in your heart in Matthew 5:27-29 that"sin" in adultery. Jesus is showing if you do not deal with sin that has you like drunkness, sexual sin, and others sin you wilfully do, that sin will deal with you.

So your sins ( since you seem to be acknowledging that you continue to sin ) will ""deal with you"" Wow i am glad i do not believe as you do CS1

one type of sin should not be holding you captive if it is? Then we have an issue with our heart as Jesus has said in Matthew 5, Mark 9, and Matthew 18:9.

Why do you say one type of sin? All sins no matter what the type cause a man to fall short of the perfect standards of God..

You are hung up on OSAS or you can lose your salvation foolisness.

This topic has nothing to do with the OSAS and falling away from salvation issue.. This has to do with people declaring that sinning must stop for people to maintain their salvation.. Or that particular sins that some people personally find extra offensive are more serious then others and thus they determine that such sins will be added to a list of sins that cause one to lose their salvation...

The main problem with sin in peoples lives is they love what they do over obeying what God said not to do.

If a person willfully sins then there is no longer any Atonement for their sin.. This issue is not about willful sin it is about sin.. It seems that you are injecting the wilfull element into things.. I am not talking about willful sinning here at all..

Now to answer your assertion" Does CS1 sin"? yes he does sin has sinned, will sin. Does Cs1 sin in the context of drunkness? no. I have the victory Christ has set me free. Does CS1 have an issue with porno? No Christ has set me free. Now if CS1 after Christ has set me free enters into a whore house or a bar and then engages in sexual sin and drunkness what was the sin that I did first?

If a person steals a cookie from a cookie jar or if they pilfer a pen from their workplace then they are worthy to be cast into the eternal lake of fire.... It seems to me that you have set a scale of sins that are acceptable and ones that are not.. When you should realize that God is PERFECT and ZERO sins are acceptable to Him.. Therefore if your doctrine is correct it does not matter what sin you sin you have fallen short of the perfect standards of God and are thus worthy of eternal damnation.... So what is the point if you stop going to a whore house to engage in sexual sin.. If you do any sins at all no matter how minor you assume them to be you're in a very dangerous place according to your doctrine..

when Christian say we are not without sin what they mean is We will continue to do the very same kinds of sin that Christ saved us from because of the flesh .Wrong you can have victory over sin in your life

If you have victory over sin in your life .. YOU WILL CEASE ALL SINNING.. Because Victory means victory over sin.. If you are still sinning then you have not achieved victory,,, have you..... nope..

, you do not have to be a saved homosexual you can come to The Lord and Give him your wicked heart and seperate yourself from the places that cause you to not have full assured victory.

What if it is not Gods will to remove a sin from you? Indeed if it was Gods will to remove all sins from me i would cease all types of sin right??? And so would you.. We would be both sinless in the flesh...

But we are not and no one is...

So there is something wrong with your beliefs CS1...

 

[Jewel5712]

Yes..you can still be a christian..being gay is a sexual perversion but God doesnt see that sin as any different than one who openly lies..over eats knowingly..gossips etc..we ALL sin and need to repent and ask forgiveness..some just struggle with certain areas in thier lives...

HOWEVER "struggling" NOT to do something verses outwardly and KNOWINGLY doing something wrong and not caring

Again..i dont believe a person can lose thier salvation because of sin..thats the beauty of the plan of Salvation..we WILL be judged accordingly though when we die...