If you want me to correspond to you you are going to have to give me BOOK as well as Verses.
Who are the inspired scriptures directed to?
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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If any man have an ear, let him hear.
https://www.bible.com/search/bible?q=has an ear let them hear
https://www.bible.com/search/bible?q=has an ear let them hear
Going with the Gideon's thing, how would an unbeliever who decides to read the bible in their nightstand find God that way? If as you say that natural man or woman reading cannot seek solace in our spiritual God?
Though now that I write that I seem to recall a passage in the bible that says God does not hear sinners prayers. How then would a sinner come to God if they're cut off from understanding or speaking to God by God's own edict?
M
mtothethirdpwer
Guest
So are you saying the Scriptures only "work" on Calvinist? Therefore every saved person must be one and we do not knot know it? Or only those that know they believe in Calvinism are saved?
I did not say anything about Calvin. I do not study Calvin's writings, in fact, I have never read his writings. I think the scriptures prove themselves and are the only source of truth. That is the trouble with some on this forum, they are influenced by man's interpretations instead of depending solely on the scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize, else, you are not understanding Jesus's doctrine.
The only way that the natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 can become a spiritual man is explained in Eph 2, especially in verse 5, God regenerates him when he is still "dead in sins" with no ability to ask to be regenerated. It is by God's grace and not by the works of man. We are all born into this world as natural beings, void of the Spirit. The natural man would never attempt to read God's word, and even if he did he would think that it was foolish.
SOME scriptures were indeed written in a simple way that even unbelievers can comprehend, to produce faith. PROOF:
John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
It isn’t so much the Bible that was given to save the lost - moreso an instruction manual to the saved to reach the lost.
The Law, on the other hand, was given to convict the lost and deliver them to the Saviour - as Galatians explains it - a schoolmaster.
So you are saying, if I understand you correctly that the natural man, void of the Spirit, (1 Cor 2:14), can discern and understand spiritual writings? That is not the picture I get of the natural man that thinks such things are but foolishness unto him.
I am in agreement with you that the bible is given as instructions to the regenerated, but not how to save the unregenerate, but to save (deliver) the regenerate from a lack of knowledge. A deliverance (salvation) that they can receive here on earth. Romans 10 is pertaining to the same deliverance from a lack of knowledge. If you approach the unregenerate with the gospel they would think of it as foolishness. according to 1 Cor 2:14.
Yes, faith cometh by hearing but faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Gal) and the natural does not have the Spirit until he is regenerate as indicated in Eph 2:5.
I do not claim to be a Calvinist. I have never read his teachings. The scriptures prove themselves and are my only dependence upon the truth and not on other men's thoughts.
The people in 3:1 were SAVED people, yet they could not yet receive/understand the spiritual things Paul was referring to in 1Cor2:14... so yes, a person can be SAVED and not yet understand the spiritual things referred to there.
______
Consider this also... a quote by William Kelly on John 3 (regarding Nicodemus):
[quoting]
"(Ezekiel 36:23-36.)
"Further, these words of the prophet [^] illustrate "the earthly things" in our Lord's conversation with Nicodemus. "If I told you the earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you the heavenly things?" (verse 12). In speaking as He had of the necessity to be born afresh- born of water and of Spirit-the Lord had not gone beyond " the earthly things." The kingdom of God could not be entered or seen without that new birth. Of course, it is indispensable for heaven; but the Lord goes farther, and insists on it as essential even for the lower province of God's kingdom. Even the Jew must be born again, and for millennial blessings, too, as well as for eternity. So true is it that they are not all Israel which are of Israel, neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children.
"We shall see, too, when our Lord proceeds in His discourse to touch on His cross and the love of God in giving His Son, that to be born anew does not adequately describe what is given to the believer, but life eternal. Substantially, no doubt, it is the same new nature which every saint has, and must have; but, now that the glory and work of Christ are revealed, its full character shines out. There is yet more, as we know, and the next chapter shows-the Spirit given, and the relationship of children of God enjoyed, and the results of the death and resurrection and ascension of Christ our portion even now. But I enlarge no more on this as yet. Only we here learn that the kingdom of God has its "heavenly things," no less than "the earthly things" of which the [OT] prophets spoke. Jesus the Son could have opened the heavenly things, but the condition of such as Nicodemus did not admit of it for the present. The Spirit revealed all these and other depths of God amply after the shed blood vindicated God and purged their consciences. Then were the disciples free to learn all [1Cor2:10,16b] in the power of Christ's resurrection and in the light of heaven. Such is Christian [i.e. NT] knowledge."
[bold, underline, and brackets mine]
Jonah brought God's word of destruction to the people of Nineveh and they believed God at His word. Btw, the people of Nineveh did not have the Holy Spirit, yet the believed God at His word.
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
Yes.
Consider also:
Acts 17:2-4 [hcsb] -
"2 As usual, Paul went to the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and showing that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead: “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah.” 4 Then some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, including a great number of God-fearing Greeks, as well as a number of the leading women."
Hi again ForestGreenCook, sorry for the slow reply on this one.
My question remains unanswered however, how did the Apostles know who to "spread the Good News to" since you say they were only supposed to share it with the elect of God (the 'saints to be', so to speak). Likewise, how do we know who to share the Gospel with today, and who not to? What means do 'you' use, for instance, to tell who is elect (and therefore ready to receive the Gospel when they hear it) among our presently unbelieving populous, and who is not?
Thanks!
~Deut
p.s. - since the Lord commanded the Apostles and the 70 as well to "shake the dust off their feet" after leaving either homes or towns who would not receive them/would not receive the Gospel from them, it seems to me that they were taking the Gospel to everyone, not simply God's elect .. e.g. Luke 9:1-6; Luke 10:1-16. (for instance, the Lord explains that in the Judgment, it will be more tolerable for those from the city of Sodom than it will be for the ones from these cities who would not receive the Gospel message from the 70).
And Jesus Himself did the same, IOW, preached the Good News to the non-elect, which we know because throughout his ministry, many left Him to return to the Jewish or pagan faith that they were comfortable with/formerly a part of, even some of those who were considered to be his disciples, in fact .. cf John 6:60, 66.
I once heard an interesting analogy about the Scriptures.
A true hologram is a flat image produced by coherent frequency laser light that illuminates an object from 2 directions simultaneously. That light reflected from the object is captured on a piece of film.
When the film is developed, it is a gray blur in normal multi-frequency light. When illuminated by the same frequency of light that produced it, MAGIC. There appears a 3 dimensional image of the object. You can tilt the film and see the left side, or the right side, or beneath, or above. You can cut the film in half and get to identical holograms, only with less resolution, having the same properties.
Under a microscope, the hologram presents many fine regions of varying density. It is an interference pattern holding information about the 3 dimensional image.
In the light of our normal understanding, the Scriptures appear a gray blur, a random collection of tales, historical accounts, poetic musings, and random details, and cobbled together bits.
Illuminated by the ORIGINAL SOURCE, THE HOLY SPIRIT, the Scriptures become alive, speaking to our personal situation, giving guidance and comfort, touching the very core of our being. Imagine my surprise! Thank you JESUS!
Just sayin’
A true hologram is a flat image produced by coherent frequency laser light that illuminates an object from 2 directions simultaneously. That light reflected from the object is captured on a piece of film.
When the film is developed, it is a gray blur in normal multi-frequency light. When illuminated by the same frequency of light that produced it, MAGIC. There appears a 3 dimensional image of the object. You can tilt the film and see the left side, or the right side, or beneath, or above. You can cut the film in half and get to identical holograms, only with less resolution, having the same properties.
Under a microscope, the hologram presents many fine regions of varying density. It is an interference pattern holding information about the 3 dimensional image.
In the light of our normal understanding, the Scriptures appear a gray blur, a random collection of tales, historical accounts, poetic musings, and random details, and cobbled together bits.
Illuminated by the ORIGINAL SOURCE, THE HOLY SPIRIT, the Scriptures become alive, speaking to our personal situation, giving guidance and comfort, touching the very core of our being. Imagine my surprise! Thank you JESUS!
Just sayin’
I would think your understanding would then preclude the efforts undertaken by missionaries and pastors the world over.
If natural man has no capacity to understand the things of God then preaching to the natural person is of no value.
If the natural person is saved by God first so that they can understand a sermon or the scriptures, then the grace of God has fallen on that chosen one. And they are then saved by God's direct spirit contact. Having then no need to listen to a sermon or read the bible.