Sabbath

[Shamah]

I'm posting from my phone, so it's easiest to make short posts.

Which direction would you like us to take our discussion?

How do you see Jer 31 and Heb 10 not being a Covenant to Israyl that Yahshua ratified when Hebrews 10 explain it that way, I will ask 3 questions concerning this below:

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

Is PS 105 above and in Jer 31, we see this is the same covenant made to Israyl was made with Abraham. DO you agree or disagree?

Jeremiah 31:33, “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Yisra’yl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people.”

Hebrews explains it, this Covenant IS THE SAME COVENANT ratified in the blood of Messiah: Do you agree or disagree?

Hebrews 10:14-19,, “For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are being set apart. And the Set-apart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before, This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them, (Jer 31:33)” and, “Their sins and their lawlessness I shall remember no more. (Jer 31:34)” Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a slaughter offering for sin. So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Set-apart Place by the blood of יהושע.”

 

[Shamah]

I'm really not concerned about how other churches describe walking by the spirit. Or if they feel they are. It's a Biblical concept that's what I'm interested in.

Walking by the spirit and being part of the New Covenant not of the letter but of the spirit are not the same as following the Commandments given by Moses, or through Moses, at Sinai.

Note that the Commandments at Sinai can be written with letters.

You not getting what Im saying. Im saying just because someone claimms to be in the Spirit does not make it so. The Spirit does not teach different "truths" to different people. The Spirit would always line up with the written Word...

Look at Paul's fruits of the Spirit passage, every fruit of the spirit is Law according to YHWH;s Law, every fruit of the flesh is a sin according to YHWH's Law.

 

[Studyman]

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

"have you sorted out the fact that by changing the priesthood the law is of necessity also changed? by your post, obviously you haven't."

"you reject earthly things told to you"

i'm not going to waste hours of my life correcting every single line of confusion, slander and false witness you write

You can deflect and change the subject and make this about you if you want, but it's about the teaching for me.

The Priesthood was changed, and with it some of the Priesthood Laws by necessity, specifically defined as removing the provision about Levites only allowed into the Priesthood. This is what Heb. 7 tells us. The Priesthood is still here, Christ is still the High Priest. But Levi is no longer in charge.

Why won't you acknowledge this truth? Or even discuss it?

Because it is easier to place blame and ridicule on others than it is to examine ones own self?

I haven't given up on you. As long as you engage me, I will share His Word with you.

 

[Shamah]

Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophecies related to himself when he came about 2,000 years ago. He did however fulfill the law and the prophets.

One reason I think this is because of the tents he uses when he says I came to fulfill. As far as I understand it, it would refer to a completed action. So, if Jesus was successful and I believe he was, then the law and the prophets are fulfilled. But not all prophecies are yet fulfilled.

YOu just contradicted yourself in a single sentence...

Look to where he read the Scroll of Isaiah and stopped in the middle of the passage.. Why? Because He still has to fulfill the prophecies in the Law and the Prophets...

Luke 4:17-21, “And the scroll of the prophet Yeshayahu was handed to Him. And having unrolled the scroll, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of יהוה is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to bring the Good News to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the broken-hearted, to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to send away crushed ones with a release, to proclaim the acceptable year of יהוה.” (Isa 61:1-3) And having rolled up the scroll, He gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all in the congregation were fixed upon Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture has been filled in your hearing.”





Fulfilled already - To be fulfilled in the future





Isaiah 61:1-11, "61:1, “The Spirit of the Master יהוה is upon Me, because יהוה has anointed Me to bring good news to the meek. He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim release to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound,"61:2, "to proclaim the acceptable year of יהוה, and the day of vengeance of our Mighty One, to comfort all who mourn,"61:3, "to appoint unto those who mourn in Tsiyon: to give them embellishment for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness. And they shall be called trees of righteousness, a planting of יהוה, to be adorned."61:4, "And they shall rebuild the old ruins, raise up the former wastes. And they shall restore the ruined cities, the wastes of many generations."61:5, "And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner be your plowmen and your vine dressers."61:6, "But you shall be called, ‘Priests of יהוה,’ ‘Servants of our Mighty One’ shall be said of you. You shall consume the strength of the nations, and boast in their esteem."61:7, "Instead of your shame and reproach, they rejoice a second time in their portion. Therefore they take possession a second time in their land, everlasting joy is theirs."61:8, "“For I, יהוה, love right-ruling; I hate robbery for ascending offering. And I shall give their reward in truth, and make an everlasting covenant with them."61:9, "“And their seed shall be known among the nations, and their offspring in the midst of the peoples. All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed יהוה has blessed.”"61:10, "I greatly rejoice in יהוה, my being exults in my Mighty One. For He has put garments of deliverance on me, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels."61:11, "For as the earth brings forth its bud, as the garden causes the seed to shoot up, so the Master יהוה causes righteousness and praise to shoot up before all the nations!”

 

[Shamah]

I don't understand that. Are you saying that the Covenant that God made with Abraham is the same as the Covenant that God made with Israel when he brought them out of Egypt?

This is what Scripture says:

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Abraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth.

He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations,

The covenant He made with Abraham,

And His oath to Yitsḥaq,

And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law,

To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

ADD ps 89 showing the Covenant stands fast with the Messiah, look to Hebrews 10 explanation of how the same Covenant spoken of in Jer 31, to Israyl, is ratified in the blood of Messiah...and to me it becomes clear. Now it goes against traditional doctrine, but it is clearly written in the Word...

 

[Shamah]

well, you do believe that a person can be under more than one Covenant at a time do you not?

I never said that, when we talked about it I said "Yah can do anything He wants to" However in Scripture I see the Covenant made with Abraham continuing and being perfected if you will in Messiah.. Again PS 105, PS 89, Jer 31, Heb 10...

 

[Shamah]

I agree that there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled.

I also believe that Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets.

Again this statement contradicts it self. The prophecies we are talking about are in "The Law and the Prophets" so if all the prophecies within "The Law and the Prophets" are not fulfilled then have NOT YET been fulfilled completely.

1st 3 Feasts were about the Messiah coming as the Passover Lamb, these are fulfilled..

last 4 Feasts are about Him returning as Conquering Lion, these are not yet fulfilled...

This is an overwiew in Scriptrue by YHWH showing His prophetic plan.... It is not yet complete...

 

[Shamah]

Exactly! So, let's start with Jesus saying that the priests break the Sabbath and are Guiltless.

We alrady talked about this and I type out a response and you ignore it and post these one liners like you have been doing...

Yahshua was doing the will of YHWH yet the Pharisees accused Him of sin;

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Many times when Yahshua talks to people He speaks in ways where He uses their own logic to prove what they say is wrong, that is the case here…

Matthew 12:5-6, “Or did you not read in the Torah that on the Sabbath the priests in the Set-apart Place profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the Set-apart Place.”

If indeed it is “Mat 12:12, "...it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath." Then no sin has been committed by the priests or by Yahshua, He was using their own logic to show them their error.

 

[posthuman]

Note that the Commandments at Sinai can be written with letters.

here:

Joshua 8:30-35
Then Joshua built an altar unto the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal, As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up [any] iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel. And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel. And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.


the whole Law, in handwriting, on stone at Ebal, the mountain representing the curse, as a testimony to Israel, against them, because as it was told from the first, they would break the covenant God made with them.

 

[posthuman]

We alrady talked about this and I type out a response and you ignore it and post these one liners like you have been doing...

Yahshua was doing the will of YHWH yet the Pharisees accused Him of sin;

Mat 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Many times when Yahshua talks to people He speaks in ways where He uses their own logic to prove what they say is wrong, that is the case here…

Matthew 12:5-6, “Or did you not read in the Torah that on the Sabbath the priests in the Set-apart Place profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the Set-apart Place.”

If indeed it is “Mat 12:12, "...it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath." Then no sin has been committed by the priests or by Yahshua, He was using their own logic to show them their error.

he said you could read about how they break every sabbath "in the law"

Jesus doesn't lie.

 

[posthuman]

You can deflect and change the subject and make this about you if you want, but it's about the teaching for me.

The Priesthood was changed, and with it some of the Priesthood Laws by necessity, specifically defined as removing the provision about Levites only allowed into the Priesthood. This is what Heb. 7 tells us. The Priesthood is still here, Christ is still the High Priest. But Levi is no longer in charge.

Why won't you acknowledge this truth? Or even discuss it?

Because it is easier to place blame and ridicule on others than it is to examine ones own self?

I haven't given up on you. As long as you engage me, I will share His Word with you.

the words of the Law that make Levi priest are made of jots and tittles.

you're still skipping that part.

 

[Shamah]

he said you could read about how they break every sabbath "in the law"

Jesus doesn't lie.

Your isolating, He also said it was Lawful... How can it be Lawful and breaking the Law?

He was using their own logic of saying the nreak the Law, then explained it, then finished with Mat 12:12 "it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath"

The work of Yah is righteous, Yahshua and the priests were doing the work of Yah...

He many times spoke in ways that can confuse, and used human logic to illustrate its error:

Matthew 15:24-26,24 And He answering, said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Yisra’ĕl.”d Footnote: dSee Mat 10:6."25 But she came and was bowing to Him, saying, “Master, help me!”"26 And He answering, said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”"

DO you really believe He saw this woman as a dog? However the talmudic Jews did... Yet He healed her daughter...

 

[Shamah]

the words of the Law that make Levi priest are made of jots and tittles.

you're still skipping that part.

and the office of the priesthood stands fast with Yahshua...

 

[Studyman]

It is Jesus who said that the priests break the Sabbath and are Guiltless.

I get it, this is your ticket of justification.

I believe the Messiah was mocking the Mainstream Preachers of His time. Because there is more verses in the Bible than this one verse you hold on to. I posted some of my thoughts, but you ignored them. That's OK. You can believe God killed the poor people who broke the Sabbath and spared the preachers who did the same if you like. But I don't buy this line of thinking. I believe they were blameless because they did as the Lord instructed specific Priests to do. According to the Sabbath the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time had created, yes, they defiled that Sabbath. But it wasn't defiling God's Sabbath to walk in fellowship and eat a strawberry or ear of corn, and it wasn't against God's Sabbath for the Priests to perform the duties specifically given to them.

But I do understand how important it is for modern religions to believe Jesus broke His own Sabbath, and as the Word instructed others to do so as well.

 

[Studyman]

This is what Scripture says:

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Abraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth.

He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations,

The covenant He made with Abraham,

And His oath to Yitsḥaq,

And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law,

To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”

ADD ps 89 showing the Covenant stands fast with the Messiah, look to Hebrews 10 explanation of how the same Covenant spoken of in Jer 31, to Israyl, is ratified in the blood of Messiah...and to me it becomes clear. Now it goes against traditional doctrine, but it is clearly written in the Word...

Ex. 2:
23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

 

[Shamah]

Ex. 2:
23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

MOre Scriptual proof that shows mainlinf doctrine is false. Thank you and praiseYah!

 

[Studyman]

the words of the Law that make Levi priest are made of jots and tittles.

you're still skipping that part.

Actually the Law and Prophets prophesy of a time when the Lord Himself would take over the duties of the Priesthood.

Jer. 31:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Before those days it was the duty of the Priesthood to administer God's Laws.


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Before those days it was the duties of the priesthood to atone for sins.

So if the Messiah had not come and taken over the priesthood, then one jot or title would have fallen from the Law and Prophets.

but because the "change in the Priesthood" was part of the Law and the Prophets, it was also a jot and tittle that would not pass away.

 

[Shamah]

Actually the Law and Prophets prophesy of a time when the Lord Himself would take over the duties of the Priesthood.

Jer. 31:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Before those days it was the duty of the Priesthood to administer God's Laws.


34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Before those days it was the duties of the priesthood to atone for sins.

So if the Messiah had not come and taken over the priesthood, then one jot or title would have fallen from the Law and Prophets.

but because the "change in the Priesthood" was part of the Law and the Prophets, it was also a jot and tittle that would not pass away.

Psalm 110:1, "יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”"2, "יהוה sends Your mighty sceptre out of Tsiyon. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!"3, "Your people volunteer in the day of Your might, In the splendours of set-apartness! From the womb, from the morning, You have the dew of Your youth!"4, "יהוה has sworn and does not relent, “You are a priest forever According to the order of Malkitseḏeq.”"5, "יהוה at Your right hand Shall smite sovereigns in the day of His wrath."6, "He judges among the nations, He shall fill the nations with dead bodies, He shall crush the Head over the mighty earth!"7, "He drinks of the stream by the wayside, Therefore He does lift up the head!"

 

[posthuman]

and the office of the priesthood stands fast with Yahshua...

who is not of Levi

the book of Hebrews makes a big point of this. He is not priest according to the Law, this is why it is evident the law has changed.

jot.
tittle.

 

[Shamah]

who is not of Levi

the book of Hebrews makes a big point of this. He is not priest according to the Law, this is why it is evident the law has changed.

jot.
tittle.

then you say the Messiah was wrong in Mat 5.

As I said the office of the Priesthood remains, the particular priests have changed...