My Best Explanation for the Trinity. Thoughts?

[Magenta]

Nothing in these verses suggests 3 distinct persons. Distinct yet one can not exist, it's like a square circle. You can either have one or distinct but never both.

How one functions in relation to others is a "role." As a singular person, you functioning as a brother toward your siblings, or as a son toward your parents, is distinct from how you would function as a father toward your children. Each role is distinct; you are at the same time son, father, and brother, yet one person.

 

[Jachob]

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

Matt 11:27All things have been entrusted to Me by MyFather. No one knows the Son except the Father,and no one knows the Father except the Son andthose to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

The word 'see' as used in this passage would mean 'understand', so if God has revealed Himself to us through Jesus, why are some saying He is a mystery?

There is much we do know about God, that is true. However, I would say that these statements are not an indication that we will fully understand the inner workings of the mind of God. I do agree Jesus is the express image of the invisible God, and I agree he has revealed to us a more coherent picture of some of his attributes, but I do not think we can fully understand the Godhead through the teachings in the New Testament.

 

[Jachob]

God is One. CO2 is One.

Water, steam, and ice are three distinct manifestations of CO2.

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct manifestations of the One God.

Each, being distinct from the other, manifest in different ways and places, of the same substance, and existing simultaneously in different places.

I would have to disagree on the use of the word "manifestations". I do not believe Jesus was simply a "manifestation" of God. I believe Jesus is and was, will always be. He is the second person of the eternal, forever existing, triune nature of God who was not created at any time. When we say the word "Manifestation" we directly link our theology with modalism. Now, I am not saying you are a modalist, I am simply saying this is the terminology used by modalists to explain the Godhead.

 

[Noose]

How one functions in relation to others is a "role." As a singular person, you functioning as a brother toward your siblings, or as a son toward your parents, is distinct from how you would function as a father toward your children. Each role is distinct; you are at the same time son, father, and brother, yet one person.

One person, different roles/functions is more plausible than 3 distinct persons. This is what Isaiah said:

Isa 9: 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Name= Authority

The child's Authority shall be:

Wonderful Counselor = Holy spirit
Everlasting Father = Father
Prince of Peace = Son
Mighty God = God

I'm yet to see a verse that says 3 distinct yet one.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

There is much we do know about God, that is true. However, I would say that these statements are not an indication that we will fully understand the inner workings of the mind of God. I do agree Jesus is the express image of the invisible God, and I agree he has revealed to us a more coherent picture of some of his attributes, but I do not think we can fully understand the Godhead through the teachings in the New Testament.

You also need passages like in Job where Elihu speaks for God and tells them what for. It is easily the most descriptive of the nature and attributes of God in the Bible.

 

[Noose]

There is much we do know about God, that is true. However, I would say that these statements are not an indication that we will fully understand the inner workings of the mind of God. I do agree Jesus is the express image of the invisible God, and I agree he has revealed to us a more coherent picture of some of his attributes, but I do not think we can fully understand the Godhead through the teachings in the New Testament.

Not knowing God- His nature and practical ways is actually devastating, for if you know God you'll have truth in you.

Saying God is a mystery is limiting yourself to truth and holding on to doctrine of men of 3 distinct persons in one, limits you further. You can never understand the bible with this kind of thought.
Yes the bible says that godliness is mysterious but the mysteriousness of godliness is not in the nature of God.

 

[PS]

I would have to disagree on the use of the word "manifestations". I do not believe Jesus was simply a "manifestation" of God. I believe Jesus is and was, will always be. He is the second person of the eternal, forever existing, triune nature of God who was not created at any time. When we say the word "Manifestation" we directly link our theology with modalism. Now, I am not saying you are a modalist, I am simply saying this is the terminology used by modalists to explain the Godhead.

Modalism says that God existed in the form of the Father in the OT, in the mode of the Son in the New Testament and in the mode of the Holy Spirit after Christ's ascension. This view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. (CARM)

That is wrong on so many fronts, let me explain:

If you have a shower on a cold frosty day, there is steam and water in the shower and if you go outside there is ice. They exist concurrently, not one after the other and regardless of their form and appearance all three are CO2, the same as Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God. The visible appearance of CO2 depends on its environment. The same is true with the omnipresent God who on earth manifest himself in the form of Jesus while existing in heaven as the Father and the Holy Spirit at one and the same time.

Jesus, Father, and the Holy Spirit were manifest on the occasion of Christ's baptism. Further, God's manifestation on earth is confirmed for example in 1 Timothy.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory. (1Ti 3:16)

 

[Jachob]

Modalism says that God existed in the form of the Father in the OT, in the mode of the Son in the New Testament and in the mode of the Holy Spirit after Christ's ascension. This view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. (CARM)

That is wrong on so many fronts, let me explain:

If you have a shower on a cold frosty day, there is steam and water in the shower and if you go outside there is ice. They exist concurrently, not one after the other and regardless of their form and appearance all three are CO2, the same as Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God. The visible appearance of CO2 depends on its environment. The same is true with the omnipresent God who on earth manifest himself in the form of Jesus while existing in heaven as the Father and the Holy Spirit at one and the same time.

Jesus, Father, and the Holy Spirit were manifest on the occasion of Christ's baptism. Further, God's manifestation on earth is confirmed for example in 1 Timothy.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory. (1Ti 3:16)

The issue with this, in my mind, is that it denies the distinct personhood of the Son. If the Son is simply an expression or manifestation of God, as the analogy of water, steam, and ice present, then Jesus is not a distinct person, he is merely a manifestation of the same person.

I would have to ask then, who is Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane? If he is simply an alternative expression of the one person, he is praying to himself. His reliance then on the Father, prayers to the Father, and submission to the Father are then just one person playing different roles. It is really just God acting. I find this hard to swallow given the obvious relational discourses between the Son Jesus and the Father. It seems to me that these two are distinct persons, yet one as Jesus proclaims.

So I would have to say that your explanation of the Trinity, to me, falls very short of any real coherent representation of the Trinity. And this is not because you are unintelligent, I don't think anybody is capable of giving any real coherent representation of the Trinity, including myself.

Now as for your statement about Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit being manifest on the occasion of baptism; I did not quite understand that statement. Can you elaborate?

 

[Lillywolf]

This is the best description of the trinity I have come across.
Watch it to the end it’s brilliant.

Brilliant! I've heard those same heresy accusations in any forum I've entered that discusses the trinity.OK, all except for Voltron.

 

[Noose]

This view states that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time--only one after another. (CARM)

Could be true because:

John 14:15“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another comforter to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.

John 16: 7 But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

1. The advocate was already there with them
2. Jesus had to go for the advocate to come into them, if Jesus doesn't go, the advocate doesn't come
3. Jesus does not leave them comfortless, he comes back to them shortly

Conclusion
This simply is not the way two distinct persons work, that one has to go for the other to come and if he doesn't go, the other won't come. Jesus is claiming to be the Holy spirit here. He must go and come to them in another form.

Jesus, Father, and the Holy Spirit were manifest on the occasion of Christ's baptism. Further, God's manifestation on earth is confirmed for example in 1 Timothy.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among nations, believed on in the world, and received up into glory. (1Ti 3:16)

The baptism of Jesus refutes trinity. Jesus as He stood in the water getting baptized was already one person, one mind and one God by Himself- so the idea that God must be 3 persons in one is already in tatters not unless you change and say that Jesus was not fully God until the Father spoke and the holy spirit descended, then it means we can split God into 3 parts (God forbid).

Whatever happened at baptism is written for your understanding and not for confusion and you must also know that only John the baptist and Jesus saw the dove and heard the voice, meaning that everything was happening in the spirit.

 

[Noose]

The issue with this, in my mind, is that it denies the distinct personhood of the Son. If the Son is simply an expression or manifestation of God, as the analogy of water, steam, and ice present, then Jesus is not a distinct person, he is merely a manifestation of the same person.

I would have to ask then, who is Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane? If he is simply an alternative expression of the one person, he is praying to himself. His reliance then on the Father, prayers to the Father, and submission to the Father are then just one person playing different roles. It is really just God acting. I find this hard to swallow given the obvious relational discourses between the Son Jesus and the Father. It seems to me that these two are distinct persons, yet one as Jesus proclaims.

So I would have to say that your explanation of the Trinity, to me, falls very short of any real coherent representation of the Trinity. And this is not because you are unintelligent, I don't think anybody is capable of giving any real coherent representation of the Trinity, including myself.

Now as for your statement about Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit being manifest on the occasion of baptism; I did not quite understand that statement. Can you elaborate?

Truly truly i tell you, Jesus is the Father but He came to demonstrate sonship to us.

 

[JaumeJ]

When Moses asked God, "hom shall I tell them sent me?" God said, "I Am." Some translate this as "I am that I am." The name in Hebrew is from the infinitive haya, to be transitive in application. Therefore He was saying I am whatever I will to be... It is also sometimes translated as Self-Existing……

There is noting definitive in the above other than a lot of food for thought...meditation even.

I do know this is a minor explanation of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit being One, and because Jesus says this is so, my authorization now is to believe it...whether I understand the mind of God or not……….and of course, I do not. Praise God in whatever manner He wishes to appear.

 

[LPT]

Although this is off topic, Lazarus (Greek Lazaros) is derived from the Hebrew name Eleazar, which means "God has helped".

Is it, you mentioned Jesus as the creator yet I'm off topic, yea ok I see how operate.

 

[LPT]

Sorry but 3 is not 1 and 1 can not be 3- you are trying to explain a square circle, something you'll fail no matter how many times you try.

Jesus by Himself, walking these streets of Jerusalem was already One person/ One spirit or mind/ One God, adding anything to Him will make them two God/two minds/two persons.

If the Father and the Holy spirit are distinct persons, how is it that ALL deity dwells in Jesus?

It seems you limit the Abilities of God, which IMO He can do the impossible.

 

[garee]

God who is Spirit having no form is not a man as us, Never was never could be .

As a supernatural Spirit (no beginning of days or end) is revealed as a male in two persons or two immutable attributes, Father and Son. this is to used as a metaphor of a loving husband pursuing his cherished beloved chaste virgin bride the church. In that way humanity has been seduced away by the father of lies in the garden ,keeping us from the arm of our loving Husband Christ, the spiritual incorruptible seed by which all mankind is born again from above.

She as His bride if first mentioned as the gospel hid in a parable in Genesis 3:15. Christ the incorruptible seed coming to rescue us from the god of this world.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Genesis 3:15

 

[LPT]

Did Jesus descend on himself when he was baptized?

 

[Noose]

It seems you limit the Abilities of God, which IMO He can do the impossible.

I'm not saying that some things are impossible to God but i'm also not saying that God can do everything including telling a lie. I mean, you can not also associate nothingness to God, it i'd be like saying God doesn't exist. We restrict ourselves to what God has revealed.

 

[LPT]

No human can ever comprehend the ability of God, when ever any man says His can't I know He can.

 

[PS]

The issue with this, in my mind, is that it denies the distinct personhood of the Son. If the Son is simply an expression or manifestation of God, as the analogy of water, steam, and ice present, then Jesus is not a distinct person, he is merely a manifestation of the same person.

I would have to ask then, who is Jesus praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane? If he is simply an alternative expression of the one person, he is praying to himself. His reliance then on the Father, prayers to the Father, and submission to the Father are then just one person playing different roles. It is really just God acting. I find this hard to swallow given the obvious relational discourses between the Son Jesus and the Father. It seems to me that these two are distinct persons, yet one as Jesus proclaims.

So I would have to say that your explanation of the Trinity, to me, falls very short of any real coherent representation of the Trinity. And this is not because you are unintelligent, I don't think anybody is capable of giving any real coherent representation of the Trinity, including myself.

Now as for your statement about Jesus, Father, and Holy Spirit being manifest on the occasion of baptism; I did not quite understand that statement. Can you elaborate?

 

[LPT]

I'm not saying that some things are impossible to God but i'm also not saying that God can do everything including telling a lie. I mean, you can not also associate nothingness to God, it i'd be like saying God doesn't exist. We restrict ourselves to what God has revealed.

And I'm saying God can do everything and some, but God doesn't lie, He is the truth and nothin but the truth.