What is a disciple?

[deardean2]

Jesus said to His disciples to go out and make disciples. So what do we see today? Well, the Baptists make Baptists and the Seventh Day Adventists make Seventh Day Adventists and the Catholics make Catholics and the Mormons make Mormons and so on. All of these organizations are based upon DOCTRINE.

Discipleship has NOTHING to do with doctrines. Discipleship has everything to do with two very entwined living experiences --- sacrifice and obedience.

Jesus set the example with His sacrifice. Most believers think that Jesus' big sacrifice was physically dying on a cross. While Jesus did die physically this is not the sacrifice disciples have in common with Him.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

There are three Greek words translated "life". One is "bios" which is physical life. One is "zoe" which is spiritual life. And the third is "psyche" which is translated life or soul. The word for life in Mt 20:28 above is psyche. This verse is NOT saying that Jesus sacrificed His physical life. It is saying He sacrificed His SOUL. And this is the sacrifice demanded by Jesus of His disciples.

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?"

So what is the soul? God created a soul when He formed a physical body made of earth and blew His spirit into it. The soul uses the senses of the flesh to allow the spirit to enjoy physical life, i.e. to bring pleasure. Jesus lived a life of sacrifice by denying Himself the pleasures of life. His total focus was obedience to the will of the Father, even unto physical death.

If anyone who wants to be a disciple cannot sacrifice their soul, i.e. give up seeking the pleasures of life and do it on a daily basis, they cannot be a disciple. How can you focus on obeying God if you are pursuing pleasure?

**************

Obedience comes from the Greek word "akouo" with a prefix "hup" added. "Akouo" means to listen while "hup" means under. So "hup-akouo", translated as obedience, literally means "to listen under".

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

You belong to the one you obey. If you obey your soul in seeking the pleasures of the flesh you will be sinning, i.e. missing the mark that God has set for you, and you will be a slave of sin --- separated from God which is death. If you obey God you will be fulfilling righteousness.

OBEDIENCE MUST BE LEARNED BY SUFFERING!

Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Sacrifice and obedience are what make up a disciple's life. One without the other doesn't work. A disciple must deny self-pleasure while listening to God and doing what he says. This kind of sacrifice and obedience causes pain.

What is the purpose or goal of being a disciple? After a period of training, i.e. giving up the search for pleasure; learning to hear God, doing what He says, and suffering for it; a disciple matures (is made perfect) and becomes a true son of God.

Jesus does not need believers. Jesus wants disciples. God does not need believers. God wants Sons.

 

[Jewel5712]

Anyone called to follow Christ..

 

[Deuteronomy]

Sacrifice and Discipline w/o Pleasure

Hi Deardean2, actually, I think the Lord 'is' interested in having us seek pleasure in our lives, and to have the things that we truly desire as we walk through this life with Him/in Christ For instance, this very important command, that just happens to carry a wonderful promise with it too, comes to mind first:

.........Psalm 37
.........4 ..Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Also, an event that included both Mary and Martha comes to mind quickly as well.

.........Luke 10
.........38 ..As they were traveling along, Jesus entered a village; and a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home.
.........39 ..She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord’s feet, listening to His word.
.........40 ..But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that
.........my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.”
.........41 ..But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things;
.........42 ..but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

So it seems to me that the Lord intends something else for us in this life than sacrifice and discipline, in fact, I think He very much intends us to enter into His rest with joy .. e.g. Philippians 4:4. This does not mean that we are not to be godly servants who know and obey/live out His word, who are focused on pleasing Him 24/7, and who are also a help & blessing to others. Sacrifice and discipline are an undoubted part of the Christian life, but not at the expense of the joy that I believe He intends for us, and the rest that we can find only in Him .. cf Matthew 11:28-30.

So I guess I see two important sides in this, and neither one should be allowed to overrule the other, IMHO.

You know, I remember when I was a kid, people always wanted to know what the "meaning of life" was. There always seemed a plethora back then of cartoons and images depicting some guy or gal struggling to get the top of a mountain to meet with the guru (who apparently lived up there), and to have that question answered, but they never seemed to get one, at least one that was in anyway believable or useful.

As Christians, we finally know the answer to that question, PTL And it seems to me that it is best (or perhaps most concisely) summed up in Q & A #1 from the Westminster Standard's Shorter Catechism which reads:

.........Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
.........A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy Him forever.[2]

~Deut

.........John 10
.........10 ..The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might
.........have it more abundantly.
.

 

[pottersclay]

Anyone called to follow Christ..

A disciple is one that has given up everything to follow Christ for the sake of the gospel and kingdom.
Not all are called to be disciples.
You can be born again and saved and not be a disciple.
Jesus called to the first 12 for this purpose..."follow me and I will make you fishers of men" used for a specific purpose.

 

[lastofall]

(John 8:31) If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed.

 

[JohnRH]

Discipleship has NOTHING to do with doctrines.

A disciple has to discern when when they come up against false doctrines. They do this by learning true doctrine. Discipleship has everything to do with sound biblical doctrine:

Mark 4:2 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine ...10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know ...
"The twelve" were disciples.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
If a disciple is to obey - "do his will", he must know doctrine.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
This is what disciples do: "continue stedfastly".

Acts 5:18 And laid their hands on the apostles ... 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
The apostles were disciples.

Acts 17:19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead ... 34 certain men clave unto him, and believed ...
Paul made disciples for Jesus at Athens via doctrine.

1 Corinthians 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either
by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
Disciples are profited by doctrine.

1 Timothy 1:9, 10 ... the law is ... made ... for the lawless and disobedient ... and ... any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine...
The law (what is to be obeyed) is in conformity with sound doctrine.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing ...
When disciples learn godly doctrine, they're not proud, knowing nothing.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
The "man of God" is a disciple of Jesus. He profits from the doctrine of Scripture.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Lusting disciples of heaped-up teachers get their ears scratched. Not so with disciples of Jesus.

2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed ...
True disciples abide in the doctrine of Christ.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
There are three Greek words translated "life". One is "bios" which is physical life. One is "zoe" which is spiritual life. And the third is "psyche" which is translated life or soul. The word for life in Mt 20:28 above is psyche. This verse is NOT saying that Jesus sacrificed His physical life. It is saying He sacrificed His SOUL. And this is the sacrifice demanded by Jesus of His disciples.

Actually "sacrifice" isn't even in that verse. Jesus gave His life a ransom for many. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body; the psuche from the soma. The KJV, NIV, NAS, NKJV, ASV, RSV, ESV, every other translation I know of renders the word "life", not "soul". They do that for a reason.

What is the purpose or goal of being a disciple? After a period of training, i.e. giving up the search for pleasure; learning to hear God, doing what He says, and suffering for it; a disciple matures (is made perfect) and becomes a true son of God.

That makes it sound like an immature disciple hasn't become a true son of God. A lost, helpless sinner goes from being a zero-disciple to becoming a son of God, upon receiving Jesus as their personal Savior. A disciple can't mature until they've first been born again.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jesus does not need believers.

But the unbeliever needs to repent from his unbelief and believe or he'll spend eternity in hell.
John 3:18 ... he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Mark 16:16 ... he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:36 ... he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

God does not need believers. God wants Sons.

All believers ARE sons. All sons ARE believers.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God ... 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Jewel5712]

Hi Deardean2, actually, I think the Lord 'is' interested in having us seek pleasure in our lives, and to have the things that we truly desire as we walk through this life with Him/in Christ For instance, this very important command, that just happens to carry a wonderful promise with it too, comes to mind first:

.........Psalm 37
.........4 ..Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Also, an event that included both Mary and Martha comes to mind quickly as well.

.........Luke 10
.........38 ..As they were traveling along, Jesus entered a village; and a woman named Martha welcomed Him into her home.
.........39 ..She had a sister called Mary, who was seated at the Lord’s feet, listening to His word.
.........40 ..But Martha was distracted with all her preparations; and she came up to Him and said, “Lord, do You not care that
.........my sister has left me to do all the serving alone? Then tell her to help me.”
.........41 ..But the Lord answered and said to her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and bothered about so many things;
.........42 ..but only one thing is necessary, for Mary has chosen the good part, which shall not be taken away from her.”

So it seems to me that the Lord intends something else for us in this life than sacrifice and discipline, in fact, I think He very much intends us to enter into His rest with joy .. e.g. Philippians 4:4. This does not mean that we are not to be godly servants who know and obey/live out His word, who are focused on pleasing Him 24/7, and who are also a help & blessing to others. Sacrifice and discipline are an undoubted part of the Christian life, but not at the expense of the joy that I believe He intends for us, and the rest that we can find only in Him .. cf Matthew 11:28-30.

So I guess I see two important sides in this, and neither one should be allowed to overrule the other, IMHO.

You know, I remember when I was a kid, people always wanted to know what the "meaning of life" was. There always seemed a plethora back then of cartoons and images depicting some guy or gal struggling to get the top of a mountain to meet with the guru (who apparently lived up there), and to have that question answered, but they never seemed to get one, at least one that was in anyway believable or useful.

As Christians, we finally know the answer to that question, PTL And it seems to me that it is best (or perhaps most concisely) summed up in Q & A #1 from the Westminster Standard's Shorter Catechism which reads:

.........Q. 1. What is the chief end of man?
.........A. Man’s chief end is to glorify God,[1] and to enjoy Him forever.[2]

~Deut

.........John 10
.........10 ..The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might
.........have it more abundantly.
.

Yes i dont think he means for us to walk around in sack cloth n ashes n be a myrterer...however ..its when those THINGS rule our hearts thats problematic

 

[Jewel5712]

A disciple is one that has given up everything to follow Christ for the sake of the gospel and kingdom.
Not all are called to be disciples.
You can be born again and saved and not be a disciple.
Jesus called to the first 12 for this purpose..."follow me and I will make you fishers of men" used for a specific purpose.

Thats what happems when we become saved..put our "old selves" in the past and strive to be new creatures..

 

[Jewel5712]

A disciple is one that has given up everything to follow Christ for the sake of the gospel and kingdom.
Not all are called to be disciples.
You can be born again and saved and not be a disciple.
Jesus called to the first 12 for this purpose..."follow me and I will make you fishers of men" used for a specific purpose.

This verse proves ALL should be called..not exclusive to just a few..

"Matthew 28:19-20 New International Version (NIV)

"19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus called the 12 to live walk n learn about him and his ministry and then further ministry after death..His death was a game changer...

 

[calibob]

Anyone called to follow Christ..

I think it's more about sharing the Gospel. I think being a disciple is more than being a follower but one who shares. Not just being in the Amen section but sharing like making cookies & coffee for the joy of it. Doesn't it make you feel like you've done something to bring pulled pork to Wednesday night bible study Jewell? That's the joy of being a disciple. And good morning to ya!

 

[Jewel5712]

I think it's more about sharing the Gospel. I think being a disciple is more than being a follower but one who shares. Not just being in the Amen section but sharing like making cookies & coffee for the joy of it. Doesn't it make you feel like you've done something to bring pulled pork to Wednesday night bible study Jewell? That's the joy of being a disciple. And good morning to ya!

Again..we are ALL called n commanded to witness n make disciples

Btw..pulled pork was yummy..any suggestions for another crock pot fav to take??

Btw..morning cali

 

[calibob]

Again..we are ALL called n commanded to witness n make disciples

Btw..pulled pork was yummy..any suggestions for another crock pot fav to take??

Btw..morning cali

Chili/mac. Right off the bat. How big is your crock pot? PM me 'bout it plz.

 

[garee]

Like may words in the scriptures some people add meaning to them like the word apostle, prophecy etc In order to change the outcome and make it about the things the eyes see.

A disciple is simple a student of the master teacher. The Son of man, Jesus was a disciple . When called master he gave glory to God not seen in respect to the Father and said; only God is good. We walk by faith not by sight .

Hebrews 5:8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

In that way we are to call no man master as teacher on earth just as we are in the same way we are to call no man father on earth, one is our master, as father in heaven.

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.John6:65-66

Tt would seem it took more than one experience for them to walk away from looking at the temporal things seen.Showing us they were not walking according to 2 Corinthians 4:18 after that not seen the eternal. Therefore as it is written the once source of Christian faith. The word it representing the unseen faith of God that does work in the believer to both will and do the good pleasure of the Father

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.John 6:44-45

 

[pottersclay]

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master.

 

[tourist]

Again..we are ALL called n commanded to witness n make disciples

Btw..pulled pork was yummy..any suggestions for another crock pot fav to take??

Btw..morning cali

My wife Darlene is cooking some pork dish in a crock pot and she just informed me that it will be ready in a few minutes. I'm sure it will taste good as I am hungry after just returning from a long hard day at work. Our evening devotion went well too. I always enjoy our devotions each day because it brings us closer together and closer to God. My suggestion regarding the crock pot fav is pot roast, with potatoes, carrots, onions and celery. At least it is a fav of mine.

 

[tourist]

Yes i dont think he means for us to walk around in sack cloth n ashes n be a myrterer...however ..its when those THINGS rule our hearts thats problematic

That word 'problematic' is a fav of mine.

 

[Jewel5712]

Chili/mac. Right off the bat. How big is your crock pot? PM me 'bout it plz.

That was my first idea but nixed it for another time

 

[Jewel5712]

That was my first idea but nixed it for another time

Also thinkin bout mac n cheese with mini hot dogs..bbq meatballs or chicken noodle soup..

 

[Deuteronomy]

Yes i dont think he means for us to walk around in sack cloth n ashes n be a myrterer...however ..its when those THINGS rule our hearts thats problematic

Hi Jewel, that's true, and that's why I was careful to use the specific examples that I did in my earlier post.

For instance, we know that God wants us to have our heart's desires because He promised to give them to us, with this single stipulation, that our heart is in the right place (IOW, because we are first and foremost seeking after God and the things of God/delighting ourselves in Him). The fact is, when we do that, chase after God rather than after all the stuff we want (or "think" we want), our desires change, and He knows that

So I agree, if we want to get our heart's desires from Him, He has to be the One who rules our hearts before that can happen.

~Deut

 

[Jewel5712]

Hi Jewel, that's true, and that's why I was careful to use the specific examples that I did in my earlier post.

For instance, we know that God wants us to have our heart's desires because He promised to give them to us, with this single stipulation, that our heart is in the right place (IOW, because we are first and foremost seeking after God and the things of God/delighting ourselves in Him). The fact is, when we do that, chase after God rather than after all the stuff we want (or "think" we want), our desires change, and He knows that

So I agree, if we want to get our heart's desires from Him, He has to be the One who rules our hearts before that can happen.

~Deut

And i am trying to learn how to give God EVERY little thing even though i think it doesnt matter...theres always things in our lives that are the hardest to surrender...