Jesus and the Covenants
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Ok that's another discussion so let's go back to the verse that says the children of the flesh are not God's people, how do you explain this?
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[7] Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[8] That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
All that was, is that The Birthright was Denied to Ishmael
Except in cases of divine intervention, which occurred three times, the inheritance
of the birthright fell automatically to the eldest son in each generation.
Isaac was chosen by the Eternal to inherit both the scepter and birthright.
Abraham had other sons. Ishmael was the eldest. But God chose Isaac, and “Abraham
gave all that he had unto Isaac” (Genesis 25:5). Isaac, however, was Abraham’s firstborn
lawful son. Ishmael was the son of Hagar, Sarah’s Egyptian handmaid.
Abraham loved Ishmael and desired for him to have the birthright. “And Abraham said
unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!” (Genesis 17:18).
Sarah his wife was barren. “And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an
everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I?…?will make
him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly?…?and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac…” (verses 19-21).
Except in cases of divine intervention, which occurred three times, the inheritance
of the birthright fell automatically to the eldest son in each generation.
Isaac was chosen by the Eternal to inherit both the scepter and birthright.
Abraham had other sons. Ishmael was the eldest. But God chose Isaac, and “Abraham
gave all that he had unto Isaac” (Genesis 25:5). Isaac, however, was Abraham’s firstborn
lawful son. Ishmael was the son of Hagar, Sarah’s Egyptian handmaid.
Abraham loved Ishmael and desired for him to have the birthright. “And Abraham said
unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!” (Genesis 17:18).
Sarah his wife was barren. “And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed;
and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an
everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I?…?will make
him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly?…?and I will make him a great nation.
But my covenant will I establish with Isaac…” (verses 19-21).
Simple . . . some Jews are going to go to hell because they not only rejected their Messiah but they died in the state of unbelief. So long as a Jew has life there is hope. "except ye endure to the end" is directed to the Jews of the tribulation, not blood-washed children of God.
Only saved Jews will enter into the Millennial kingdom.
New Testament believing Gentiles have an entirely different promise of where they will live.
Only saved Jews will enter into the Millennial kingdom.
New Testament believing Gentiles have an entirely different promise of where they will live.
Abraham was saved by promise . . . was he a Jew?
"Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised" (Romans 4:9-12).
"Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised" (Romans 4:9-12).
***What a radical idea, that God would place Israel on hold, or even, as another responder posted, that God cast away Israel. What’s left out is Acts 13:47 which says, “For so the Lord has commanded us, saying,
‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
That is quoted from Isaiah 49:6, but the whole passage, Isaiah 49:5-6, is as follows:” And now the LORD says,
he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him—for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength— he says:
“IT IS TOO LIGHT A THING THAT YOU SHOULD BE MY SERVANT TO RAISE UP THE TRIBES OF JACOB AND TO BRING BACK THE PRESERVED OF ISRAEL; I WILL MAKE YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE NATIONS…”
It appears that God did not put Israel on the shelf, or forsake her, as the posters believe Paul meant, but rather God through Jesus has lumped Israel in with the rest of the world.
I realize in my original post, I misquoted Deuteronomy 29:14-15. It should have read, “It is not with you alone that I am making this sworn covenant, but with whoever is standing here with us today before the Lord our God, and with whoever is NOT here with us today.” That would imply other generations, but it could also imply the rest of the world that wasn’t present with Moses when god declared His Covenant.
It was always God’s intent that the whole world love Him, and whoever did would be His chosen, inasmuch as the Bible says that the Heavens declare His glory.
‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
That is quoted from Isaiah 49:6, but the whole passage, Isaiah 49:5-6, is as follows:” And now the LORD says,
he who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him; and that Israel might be gathered to him—for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD, and my God has become my strength— he says:
“IT IS TOO LIGHT A THING THAT YOU SHOULD BE MY SERVANT TO RAISE UP THE TRIBES OF JACOB AND TO BRING BACK THE PRESERVED OF ISRAEL; I WILL MAKE YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE NATIONS…”
It appears that God did not put Israel on the shelf, or forsake her, as the posters believe Paul meant, but rather God through Jesus has lumped Israel in with the rest of the world.
I realize in my original post, I misquoted Deuteronomy 29:14-15. It should have read, “It is not with you alone that I am making this sworn covenant, but with whoever is standing here with us today before the Lord our God, and with whoever is NOT here with us today.” That would imply other generations, but it could also imply the rest of the world that wasn’t present with Moses when god declared His Covenant.
It was always God’s intent that the whole world love Him, and whoever did would be His chosen, inasmuch as the Bible says that the Heavens declare His glory.