Revelation 20 from the amillennial view point

[trofimus]

garee thanks for your answers.

Can you tell me how does amillennialism deal with Ezekiel 34:24-25 and other verses that talk about king David ruling in Israel, and the regathering of Israel verses?
Seems like a milllenium is the only place these can be fulfilled. Even books outside of the bible speak of the messianic period before eternity like the book of enoch (post-trib book btw)

I think many of your questions are simply answered by changing your point of view.

If you will look at the verse with "its not about physical flesh, but about spiritual people - church", its easily explained, then. And it applies to your other questions as well.

 

[Hevosmies]

I think many of your questions are simply answered by changing your point of view.

If you will look at the verse with "its not about physical flesh, but about spiritual people - church", its easily explained, then. And it applies to your other questions as well.

You might be right.

But I guess im just too carnal to understand what these verses mean if they dont mean physical things. Why? Because the text says nothing spiritual, its all earthly events. Like "Joe went to the store" Ezekiel 34:24 is similar to that. God says His servant David will be prince among them. How can I look at that as spiritual or make it into the church? Its not easily explained to me, so can you PLEASE explain that to me?

I want to know

 

[garee]

garee thanks for your answers.

Can you tell me how does amillennialism deal with Ezekiel 34:24-25 and other verses that talk about king David ruling in Israel, and the regathering of Israel verses?

Seems like a milllenium is the only place these can be fulfilled. Even books outside of the bible speak of the messianic period before eternity like the book of enoch (post-trib book btw)

I would suggest eschatology is not the fundamental difference between the camps it is simply an implication of the fundamental difference. The fundamental difference is actually seen in the difference between Israel and the church which is one and the same.

Yes the thousand years to represent the unknown amount of time is the only place these can be fulfilled.. It began at the time of reformation, the veil being rent indicated the time had come, the beginning of the last days represented by a non literal thousand years

I would offer King David is used to typify Christ as King of kings . Remember God gave it over to the Jews who gathered themselves together (not called) because of their jealously of the surrounding Pagan nation, they refused to walk by faith and therefore rejected God not seen, as King. They had their first choice Saul who resorted to necromancy.

God then hand picked David to represent his spiritual house made of many living stones with a condition as a convent that they keep his statues and commandments "The Lord said to Solomon who violated the covenant .. since this has been your mind and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you and give it to your servant. Yet for the sake of David your father I will not do it in your days, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son.

But not the whole Kingdom as the house of God the church he gave one tribe (Judah) for the sake of David which was the Son of man born of Mary.

The first century reformation restored the order to before there were Kings in Isreal, when men walked by faith not rejecting our invisible King

I think you could say the kingdom went from David, to the son of man, Jesus, as the generation of Christ. The end of the genealogy .

 

[Adstar]

Greetings brothers and sisters.

I have to say that I am very ignorant of what the Amillennials teach on Revelation 20, I have read an article about it from Ligoneir ministries and have listened to a couple sermons on it, but that is about it.

I have a ton of questions, mostly because im curious but also because I truly don't believe you can arrive to amillennialism by the "plain reading of the text" in Rev 20.

Okay guys, so tell me if I got this right:

The amill view is: Satan was bound when Jesus was on earth the first time, at the cross, the first resurrection is a "spiritual resurrection" of the saved in this gospel era, the second resurrection is the "general resurrection" at the end when Jesus returns. When ALL are resurrected, evil and righteous.

Now a few questions arise from this, ASSUMING my view is correct, correct me if im wrong:

1. Why is Peter saying the devil is walking around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and world is full of wickedness and satan is deceiving the nations IF the devil is bound currently?
2. The first resurrection is spiritual, fine, however it says the first resurrection is for those who overcame the mark of the beast, and didn't bow to him, how is this possible because that would mean the mark has been in effect since the days of John?
3. We are told that saints will "rule the nations", if there is no millennium (literal one on earth) WHERE and HOW do people reign? I will cry if the answer is heaven, because its clear that the SAINTS are not running this world, righteousness is not present, its wickedness all over the world!
4. If someone dies in the Lord today, goes up to heaven to rule in the invisible millenium, yet Jesus returns tomorrow, how can it be said he reigned for a millennium instead of a day?
5. What about the Gog and Magog war? How can that happen in the amill view? The apostasy occurs and the church is persecuted? But it does say "camp of the saints" and "holy city" which we can only guess is Jerusalem, what other could it be?
6. Did you arrive to amillennialism by yourself, or did someone teach it to you?

That would be it for now, but I will say this: If there was no revelation 20, I would understand the amill view alot better, it works with the sheep and goats thing in Matthew 25 very well, another thing I like about it is the simplicity. But I am captive to the Scriptures, so most likely I will stay premill.

This is not a heated debate thread, rather I would enjoy if it could be a civil and calm exchange of information, I have no desire to "convert" you to premillennialism, I just want to know more about the amill view and I believe this is a quicker way than wasting money on an expensive book.

The chapter Revelation 20 set my POV on the matter.. I believe that the millennium starts on the day of the return of Jesus and lasts 1000 years and the battle of Gog-Magog happens at the end of the 1000 years when satan shall be released from the bottomless pit and will go out to deceive the nations and cause then to come and attempt to attack Jerusalem.. where the Saints shall be ruling the World with Jesus.. The army of Gog-magog will be destroyed by fire and that,s when satan will finally be cast into the eternal lake of fire and the final judgement will happen..

 

[garee]

You might be right.

But I guess im just too carnal to understand what these verses mean if they dont mean physical things. Why? Because the text says nothing spiritual, its all earthly events. Like "Joe went to the store" Ezekiel 34:24 is similar to that. God says His servant David will be prince among them. How can I look at that as spiritual or make it into the church? Its not easily explained to me, so can you PLEASE explain that to me?

I want to know

I think it has to do with the prescription given in 2 Corinthian 4:18 that describes the "law of faith" by which we can believe God not seen . Remember we are not what we will be and neither is the earth and the universe that will go up in smoke on the last day the second and final resurrection .

The temporal gives us the unseen eternal spiritual understanding hid in various parable . Not everything is metaphoric but we are to look and search as for silver or gold for the unseen eternal understanding . Without parables Christ spoke not

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthian 4:18

Taking that above prescription we can apply it to the next chapter 2 Corinthian 5:16 to help us understand God is not a man as us .

The one time outward demonstration is over, the veil is rent.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthian 5:16

 

[Hevosmies]

The chapter Revelation 20 set my POV on the matter.. I believe that the millennium starts on the day of the return of Jesus and lasts 1000 years and the battle of Gog-Magog happens at the end of the 1000 years when satan shall be released from the bottomless pit and will go out to deceive the nations and cause then to come and attempt to attack Jerusalem.. where the Saints shall be ruling the World with Jesus.. The army of Gog-magog will be destroyed by fire and that,s when satan will finally be cast into the eternal lake of fire and the final judgement will happen..

I agree with you.

I made this thread to learn the other side, so to speak. I am always curious.

But to be quite honest with you: I believe that SIMPLICITY is always the key. The more complex and the more explaining a position needs, the less likely it is to be true.
If you read the Bible from cover to cover, and you read all the O.T. prophecies to Israel, you will naturally match it with Revelation 20, it makes for a simple, plain reading of the text understanding that a fisherman can grasp.

Another problem I have with amillennialism is that you cant read the O.T. at all on your own. Because you can never know what it means, you need a pastor or a preacher to tell you what it means. Since David being a prince in Israel doesn't mean David being a prince in Israel... It leaves that open to interpretation and it can mean anything.

But don't get me wrong, I am still officially "undediced" due to the fact that I recognize premillennialism has problems of its own. Such as 2 Peter 3:10-13 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 and verses that mention death swallowed up in victory when Jesus returns, which according to Rev 20 occurs AFTER the millenium when its thrown into the lake of fire. And we have the wheat and tares that grow together until the end of the world.

 

[garee]

I think many of your questions are simply answered by changing your point of view.

If you will look at the verse with "its not about physical flesh, but about spiritual people - church", its easily explained, then. And it applies to your other questions as well.

Did you mean to compare the literal as that seen to the literal as that seen as in walking by sight?

 

[Endoscopy]

Greetings brothers and sisters.

I have to say that I am very ignorant of what the Amillennials teach on Revelation 20, I have read an article about it from Ligoneir ministries and have listened to a couple sermons on it, but that is about it.

I have a ton of questions, mostly because im curious but also because I truly don't believe you can arrive to amillennialism by the "plain reading of the text" in Rev 20.

Okay guys, so tell me if I got this right:

The amill view is: Satan was bound when Jesus was on earth the first time, at the cross, the first resurrection is a "spiritual resurrection" of the saved in this gospel era, the second resurrection is the "general resurrection" at the end when Jesus returns. When ALL are resurrected, evil and righteous.

Now a few questions arise from this, ASSUMING my view is correct, correct me if im wrong:

1. Why is Peter saying the devil is walking around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and world is full of wickedness and satan is deceiving the nations IF the devil is bound currently?
2. The first resurrection is spiritual, fine, however it says the first resurrection is for those who overcame the mark of the beast, and didn't bow to him, how is this possible because that would mean the mark has been in effect since the days of John?
3. We are told that saints will "rule the nations", if there is no millennium (literal one on earth) WHERE and HOW do people reign? I will cry if the answer is heaven, because its clear that the SAINTS are not running this world, righteousness is not present, its wickedness all over the world!
4. If someone dies in the Lord today, goes up to heaven to rule in the invisible millenium, yet Jesus returns tomorrow, how can it be said he reigned for a millennium instead of a day?
5. What about the Gog and Magog war? How can that happen in the amill view? The apostasy occurs and the church is persecuted? But it does say "camp of the saints" and "holy city" which we can only guess is Jerusalem, what other could it be?
6. Did you arrive to amillennialism by yourself, or did someone teach it to you?

That would be it for now, but I will say this: If there was no revelation 20, I would understand the amill view alot better, it works with the sheep and goats thing in Matthew 25 very well, another thing I like about it is the simplicity. But I am captive to the Scriptures, so most likely I will stay premill.

This is not a heated debate thread, rather I would enjoy if it could be a civil and calm exchange of information, I have no desire to "convert" you to premillennialism, I just want to know more about the amill view and I believe this is a quicker way than wasting money on an expensive book.

Keep in mind that amil is only one of the four different views of eschatology, end times.

End times (eschatology)
Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

 

[garee]

I agree with you.

I made this thread to learn the other side, so to speak. I am always curious.

But to be quite honest with you: I believe that SIMPLICITY is always the key. The more complex and the more explaining a position needs, the less likely it is to be true.
If you read the Bible from cover to cover, and you read all the O.T. prophecies to Israel, you will naturally match it with Revelation 20, it makes for a simple, plain reading of the text understanding that a fisherman can grasp.

Another problem I have with amillennialism is that you cant read the O.T. at all on your own. Because you can never know what it means, you need a pastor or a preacher to tell you what it means. Since David being a prince in Israel doesn't mean David being a prince in Israel... It leaves that open to interpretation and it can mean anything.

But don't get me wrong, I am still officially "undediced" due to the fact that I recognize premillennialism has problems of its own. Such as 2 Peter 3:10-13 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 and verses that mention death swallowed up in victory when Jesus returns, which according to Rev 20 occurs AFTER the millenium when its thrown into the lake of fire. And we have the wheat and tares that grow together until the end of the world.

Remember not all Isreal is Isreal as born again inward Jews according to the new name he named His people "Christian". Its never about the flesh of one nation against that of another. Some would assume the flesh does rise above that which is written as way of puffing themselves above the Gentiles. (The sign seekers) But why would they glory in their own flesh as if what they do have they have not received?

1 Corinthians 4:5-7 King James Version (KJV) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

If we would follow that looking to the temporal it would make the conclusion of 2 Corinthian 4:18 to no effect. Again what we are is not what we will be..... no longer Jew nor Gentile, male nor female

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Corinthian 4:18

 

[Adstar]

I agree with you.

I made this thread to learn the other side, so to speak. I am always curious.

But to be quite honest with you: I believe that SIMPLICITY is always the key. The more complex and the more explaining a position needs, the less likely it is to be true.
If you read the Bible from cover to cover, and you read all the O.T. prophecies to Israel, you will naturally match it with Revelation 20, it makes for a simple, plain reading of the text understanding that a fisherman can grasp.

Another problem I have with amillennialism is that you cant read the O.T. at all on your own. Because you can never know what it means, you need a pastor or a preacher to tell you what it means. Since David being a prince in Israel doesn't mean David being a prince in Israel... It leaves that open to interpretation and it can mean anything.

But don't get me wrong, I am still officially "undediced" due to the fact that I recognize premillennialism has problems of its own. Such as 2 Peter 3:10-13 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-25 and verses that mention death swallowed up in victory when Jesus returns, which according to Rev 20 occurs AFTER the millenium when its thrown into the lake of fire. And we have the wheat and tares that grow together until the end of the world.

I cannot see a problem with 2 Peter 3: 10-13.. We read in the Book of Revelation of a great burning mountain falling into the sea that will bring great destruction.. That to me is a first century description of a Meteor striking the earth.. We also read that the Day of the LORD will be like the days of Sodom where it rained fire and brimstone upon the earth.. Which to me is the debris re-entering the earths atmosphere that was kicked up by the meteor striking the earth.. In Revelation we see that 1/3rd of the earth will be burnt up.. So to me during the Day of the LORD a meteor will strike the earth causing huge destruction.. I also believe this meteor strike will trigger the great world wide earthquake spoken of in Revelation where every island and mountain will be moved from it's place..

I don't see any problems with 1 Corinthians 15: 20-25 either.. Jesus shall be the absolute ruler of all the world during the millennium and the final satanic rebellion of the gog-magog war will not bring the rule of Jesus down.. That rebellion will be smashed.. It will fail..

When Jesus returns death will be swallowed up in victory for His Saints, who from that time onward will be in their eternal bodies and will live forever more.. We get a 1000 year head start over others.. So death will be swallowed up in Victory for the followers of Jesus upon his return.. But for others it will not come until the final resurrection when indeed death will be thrown into the Lake of fire for all humanity..

Not sure why you have a problem with the wheat and tares either ?

 

[iamsoandso]

I would suggest eschatology is not the fundamental difference between the camps it is simply an implication of the fundamental difference. The fundamental difference is actually seen in the difference between Israel and the church which is one and the same.

Yes the thousand years to represent the unknown amount of time is the only place these can be fulfilled.. It began at the time of reformation, the veil being rent indicated the time had come, the beginning of the last days represented by a non literal thousand years

I would offer King David is used to typify Christ as King of kings . Remember God gave it over to the Jews who gathered themselves together (not called) because of their jealously of the surrounding Pagan nation, they refused to walk by faith and therefore rejected God not seen, as King. They had their first choice Saul who resorted to necromancy.

God then hand picked David to represent his spiritual house made of many living stones with a condition as a convent that they keep his statues and commandments "The Lord said to Solomon who violated the covenant .. since this has been your mind and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you and give it to your servant. Yet for the sake of David your father I will not do it in your days, but I will tear it out of the hand of your son.

But not the whole Kingdom as the house of God the church he gave one tribe (Judah) for the sake of David which was the Son of man born of Mary.

The first century reformation restored the order to before there were Kings in Isreal, when men walked by faith not rejecting our invisible King

I think you could say the kingdom went from David, to the son of man, Jesus, as the generation of Christ. The end of the genealogy .

Your saying the restoration/reformation began with the veil being rent but Peter in Acts 3:21 speaks of it as an event that had not yet began,,,, whose opinion should we take on this?

 

[garee]

Keep in mind that amil is only one of the four different views of eschatology, end times.

End times (eschatology)
Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

Yes the opening verse in Revelation identifies the symbolic language, signified, as that which hidden in parables called the hidden mana in Revelation 2. Inspired it and signified it.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:

 

[Hevosmies]

I cannot see a problem with 2 Peter 3: 10-13.. We read in the Book of Revelation of a great burning mountain falling into the sea that will bring great destruction.. That to me is a first century description of a Meteor striking the earth.. We also read that the Day of the LORD will be like the days of Sodom where it rained fire and brimstone upon the earth.. Which to me is the debris re-entering the earths atmosphere that was kicked up by the meteor striking the earth.. In Revelation we see that 1/3rd of the earth will be burnt up.. So to me during the Day of the LORD a meteor will strike the earth causing huge destruction.. I also believe this meteor strike will trigger the great world wide earthquake spoken of in Revelation where every island and mountain will be moved from it's place..

I don't see any problems with 1 Corinthians 15: 20-25 either.. Jesus shall be the absolute ruler of all the world during the millennium and the final satanic rebellion of the gog-magog war will not bring the rule of Jesus down.. That rebellion will be smashed.. It will fail..

When Jesus returns death will be swallowed up in victory for His Saints, who from that time onward will be in their eternal bodies and will live forever more.. We get a 1000 year head start over others.. So death will be swallowed up in Victory for the followers of Jesus upon his return.. But for others it will not come until the final resurrection when indeed death will be thrown into the Lake of fire for all humanity..

Not sure why you have a problem with the wheat and tares either ?

The wheat and tares are gathered at the end of the world. Leaving nobody in the flesh. Its also a problem for any rapture before the second coming.

Both sides have difficult texts to deal with. And as I have discussed with Ahwatukee we just aren't told all the details in every account. That's the problem.

I think the Bible is more concerned about us being READY for the return of Jesus, than about HOW is all goes down.

 

[Adstar]

The wheat and tares are gathered at the end of the world. Leaving nobody in the flesh. Its also a problem for any rapture before the second coming.

Both sides have difficult texts to deal with. And as I have discussed with Ahwatukee we just aren't told all the details in every account. That's the problem.

I think the Bible is more concerned about us being READY for the return of Jesus, than about HOW is all goes down.

I don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.. I believe the rapture will happen on the Day of the second coming of Jesus.. But i also believe there will be people saved during the millennium because the nations of the world which we shall be ruling over with Jesus will have access to salvation but will not be resurrected until the last judgement day.. So yes there will be a first resurrection of the Pre- second coming Saints and a final gathering at the second resurrection.. Revelation 20 clearly reveals there will be two resurrections.. As i said before we will be getting a 1000 year early mark that's the difference..

If a person believes Jesus and trusts in the Atonement He secured for their salvation then they are ready... If we are ready to die today then we are ready for the second coming of Jesus today.. There is no difference as far as salvation is concerned..

 

[garee]

Your saying the restoration/reformation began with the veil being rent but Peter in Acts 3:21 speaks of it as an event that had not yet began,,,, whose opinion should we take on this?

My opinion would be. Restitution is a different Greek word than reformation both restore . I would think the first century was restored to period of Judges before there was a King in Israel. (no more Lambs)

While the Act 3 is in respect to the last day when the kingdoms of this world will be come the kingdoms of God in the new heavens and earth. The last trump as the seventh messenger has sounded. This is revealed in Revelation 11, giving us a picture in Chapter 12 of the chaste virgin bride, the church typified as the mother of us all

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, `The kingdoms of the world did become [those] of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!'Revelation11:15

Revelation 12 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars,

Its the end of time, the two times keepers under her feet. No sun or moon in the new restored order (Revelation 21:23

Acts 3....Till times of a restitution of all things not just the old testament ceremonial laws.

 

[iamsoandso]

My opinion would be. Restitution is a different Greek word than reformation both restore . I would think the first century was restored to period of Judges before there was a King in Israel. (no more Lambs)

While the Act 3 is in respect to the last day when the kingdoms of this world will be come the kingdoms of God in the new heavens and earth. The last trump as the seventh messenger has sounded. This is revealed in Revelation 11, giving us a picture in Chapter 12 of the chaste virgin bride, the church typified as the mother of us all

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, `The kingdoms of the world did become [those] of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign to the ages of the ages!'Revelation11:15

Revelation 12 And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars,

Its the end of time, the two times keepers under her feet. No sun or moon in the new restored order (Revelation 21:23

Acts 3....Till times of a restitution of all things not just the old testament ceremonial laws.

So from Isaiah 1:26 to Revelation 21:23 is a large gap I would think but it still seems as though since they ask Jesus in Acts 1:6 about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel and Peter is speaking to men of Israel in Acts 3:12 he is speaking of the same thing.

It still doesn't address how this began(your opinion) with the veil being rent and Peter speaking about 60 days later of it(after receiving the comforter) in a future tense. If Jesus as Peter words this is received in heaven "until" (Acts 3:19-21) both refreshing and restitution take place then either all these are to happen before Jesus returns or after he returns.

So the Mill. kingdom begins before or after refreshing/restoration and does Jesus return before or after this according to Peter?

 

[garee]

So from Isaiah 1:26 to Revelation 21:23 is a large gap I would think but it still seems as though since they ask Jesus in Acts 1:6 about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel and Peter is speaking to men of Israel in Acts 3:12 he is speaking of the same thing.

It still doesn't address how this began(your opinion) with the veil being rent and Peter speaking about 60 days later of it(after receiving the comforter) in a future tense. If Jesus as Peter words this is received in heaven "until" (Acts 3:19-21) both refreshing and restitution take place then either all these are to happen before Jesus returns or after he returns.

So the Mill. kingdom begins before or after refreshing/restoration and does Jesus return before or after this according to Peter?

The Holy Spirit is not limited to time gaps or dispensations. One day is as if it was a thousand years and a thousands years as if a day.
The metaphorical "thousand years" in that parable found in Revelation 20 began when Christ said it was finished, the graves were opened as the promised glory (1 Peter1:11). The time of reformation as the time of the last days or last time begun as indicated, the shadows became substance. The government of God was restored to the period of judges when there was no outward representative as kings and fathers. At that time the priesthood was changed from the order of Levites to the new order under Christ our high Priest not seen as the King of kings the restored order.

The renting of the veil indicated Christ had come as a demonstration in the flesh signaled the beginning of the last times. As we are informed there are many antichrists today who do not walk by faith the eternal not seen,

Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.1 john2:18

Peter speaking about 60 days later of it was in a future tense. It was not the beginning of the reformation but the end of the promise, unless the Son of man disappear the comforter would not come. It does not mean the Holy Spirit was not working in the hearts of men as Christ in these corrupted earthen vessels of death but the sign that he would come and pour out His Spirit on Jew and Gentile male and female alike as a kingdom of priest was on hold.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Acts 1:5-11

The restore in Acts knowing all Israel is not Israel is not the same restore indicated by the opening of the graves, the first resurrection.

He will not put on the temporal flesh of man for another outward demonstration. He is not a man as us but the Holy Spirit that indwell his temple, as Christ in us .

God is not Jewish, as new creatures we are not what we will be,( neither male nor female Jew of Gentile). He will come on the last day as a thief in the night just as when he came in the times of Noah as those lasts days . The believer like Noah has the privilege of watching for the last day but even to them the coming will not be by observation.

 

[Absolutely]

You might be right.

But I guess im just too carnal to understand what these verses mean if they dont mean physical things. Why? Because the text says nothing spiritual, its all earthly events. Like "Joe went to the store" Ezekiel 34:24 is similar to that. God says His servant David will be prince among them. How can I look at that as spiritual or make it into the church? Its not easily explained to me, so can you PLEASE explain that to me?

I want to know

Most of the time we start at the wrong "place",then most do not know what the "target" is (the final fulfilment)
The panaramic is necessary to properly frame the rest.
Transversly, all false doctrine/concepts carry with them an impossibility.
They are impossible due to being outnumbered by other verses,or when test fit they fail

 

[Absolutely]

So from Isaiah 1:26 to Revelation 21:23 is a large gap I would think but it still seems as though since they ask Jesus in Acts 1:6 about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel and Peter is speaking to men of Israel in Acts 3:12 he is speaking of the same thing.

It still doesn't address how this began(your opinion) with the veil being rent and Peter speaking about 60 days later of it(after receiving the comforter) in a future tense. If Jesus as Peter words this is received in heaven "until" (Acts 3:19-21) both refreshing and restitution take place then either all these are to happen before Jesus returns or after he returns.

So the Mill. kingdom begins before or after refreshing/restoration and does Jesus return before or after this according to Peter?

I wonder what the anti dispensation group says of the mil time bracket.
It is a dispensation. Lol

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.. I believe the rapture will happen on the Day of the second coming of Jesus..

Since the Marriage of the Lamb precedes the second coming of Christ, and since all the saints of God are also the Bride of Christ, you are clearly mistaken. The Rapture is about the saints GOING UP to Heaven. The second coming is about the saints COMING DOWN from Heaven. This cannot happen -- and does not happen -- at one and the same time.

THAT WOULD BE ABSURD, and God does not deal in absurdities.