A place for rapture questions
- Thread starter Wall
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Good day Hevosmies,
First of all, regarding the judgment of the sheep and goats, we must establish the time period of when this takes place, which can be garnered from the context:
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne." - Matt.25:31
Remember, the question the disciples asked was "what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age." Therefore, all of the signs given in Matt.24 will take place leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and to establish His millennial kingdom. Matt.25:31 is referring back to Matt.24:31. Let's compare the two scriptures:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. " - Matt.24:30-31
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats" - Matt.25:31
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you can see from both Matt.24:30-31 and Matt.25:31, they both refer to 1). the Lord's coming and 2). His angels arriving with Him, which would establish when the separation of the sheep and the goats takes place. If Matt.25:31 was speaking of the great white throne judgment, the Lord would not be coming into His glory, nor would the angels be coming with Him and that because they would already be in heaven. However, both scriptures demonstrate that both the Lord and His angels are coming from heaven to the earth.
The following verse is the results of the sheep and goat separation:
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." - Matt.25:31
Now, I am not sure of what you are speaking about regarding "temporal life," as I have never heard of this. What I do know is that, the sheep will be the great tribulation saints who will have made it through the entire seven years of God's wrath and the beasts reign and survived. These are those who, along with the remnant of the woman/Israel, will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom. The goats on the other hand, will be those who rejected Christ and worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and will have also made it through the entire seven years and survived and which is why they will have failed regarding the works that Christ said they will have neglected.
Regarding the results for both, we know that the sheep will eventually receive their immortal and glorified bodies and inherit eternal life. In opposition, the destination of the goats will be eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Whether or not the goats are immediately sent to the lake of fire or are sent to Hades until the final judgment at the great white throne, I am not sure. What I do know is that, what is stated for both will be their end result.
Now by these questions, you bring up a concern of mine and I believe that it just has to do with us not having all the information. What I mean is that, in speaking of the new Jerusalem in the eternal state in Rev.22:5, we read the following scripture:
"There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever."
My concern is that prior to the time of the great white throne judgment, those worthy of the first resurrection will have already received their immortal and glorified bodies. Then at the great white throne judgment when Hades is resurrected, anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Therefore you have the results of the saved and the condemned. That being the case, who will the saved be reigning over in eternity? My point is that, in order to reign there must others in a lower position under the saved in order to rule over. Otherwise, if all of the saved are on the same level and ruling with Christ and the unsaved are all in the lake of fire, then there would be no one to rule over. To make my point clearer, if God neither had angels, nor mankind, nor any other created life, then though He is God, He would have no one to rule over, because there would be no created or lessor life below him to rule over.
I'm sure that He will reveal these things and more when we get there.
First of all, regarding the judgment of the sheep and goats, we must establish the time period of when this takes place, which can be garnered from the context:
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne." - Matt.25:31
Remember, the question the disciples asked was "what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age." Therefore, all of the signs given in Matt.24 will take place leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and to establish His millennial kingdom. Matt.25:31 is referring back to Matt.24:31. Let's compare the two scriptures:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. " - Matt.24:30-31
"When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats" - Matt.25:31
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As you can see from both Matt.24:30-31 and Matt.25:31, they both refer to 1). the Lord's coming and 2). His angels arriving with Him, which would establish when the separation of the sheep and the goats takes place. If Matt.25:31 was speaking of the great white throne judgment, the Lord would not be coming into His glory, nor would the angels be coming with Him and that because they would already be in heaven. However, both scriptures demonstrate that both the Lord and His angels are coming from heaven to the earth.
The following verse is the results of the sheep and goat separation:
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." - Matt.25:31
Now, I am not sure of what you are speaking about regarding "temporal life," as I have never heard of this. What I do know is that, the sheep will be the great tribulation saints who will have made it through the entire seven years of God's wrath and the beasts reign and survived. These are those who, along with the remnant of the woman/Israel, will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom. The goats on the other hand, will be those who rejected Christ and worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and will have also made it through the entire seven years and survived and which is why they will have failed regarding the works that Christ said they will have neglected.
Regarding the results for both, we know that the sheep will eventually receive their immortal and glorified bodies and inherit eternal life. In opposition, the destination of the goats will be eternal punishment in the lake of fire. Whether or not the goats are immediately sent to the lake of fire or are sent to Hades until the final judgment at the great white throne, I am not sure. What I do know is that, what is stated for both will be their end result.
Now by these questions, you bring up a concern of mine and I believe that it just has to do with us not having all the information. What I mean is that, in speaking of the new Jerusalem in the eternal state in Rev.22:5, we read the following scripture:
"There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever."
My concern is that prior to the time of the great white throne judgment, those worthy of the first resurrection will have already received their immortal and glorified bodies. Then at the great white throne judgment when Hades is resurrected, anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Therefore you have the results of the saved and the condemned. That being the case, who will the saved be reigning over in eternity? My point is that, in order to reign there must others in a lower position under the saved in order to rule over. Otherwise, if all of the saved are on the same level and ruling with Christ and the unsaved are all in the lake of fire, then there would be no one to rule over. To make my point clearer, if God neither had angels, nor mankind, nor any other created life, then though He is God, He would have no one to rule over, because there would be no created or lessor life below him to rule over.
I'm sure that He will reveal these things and more when we get there.
Hello Karraster,
What you stated above regarding those resurrecting like Lazarus, is exactly my understanding, i.e. those who came out of their graves did so only to die again and will be resurrected with Israel, where at that time they will receive their immortal and glorified bodies. To date, I believe that Jesus is the only one who has resurrected with an immortal and glorified body and the church is next.
What you stated above regarding those resurrecting like Lazarus, is exactly my understanding, i.e. those who came out of their graves did so only to die again and will be resurrected with Israel, where at that time they will receive their immortal and glorified bodies. To date, I believe that Jesus is the only one who has resurrected with an immortal and glorified body and the church is next.
Thanks for the good reply AGAIN. I have also wondered about Rev 22:5 ! I just dont see why the need to reign over anyone when there is no more sin. I gotta check what the word reign means there. Maybe martyrs are "higher class" saints? who knows.
Nonetheless: you said the sheep will eventually receive their immortal bodies, so when it says they have eternal life, yet they will reproduce in the millenium, Does that mean that they (the sheep in matt25) will DIE during the millennium? and only then be given the immortal bodies?
Nonetheless: you said the sheep will eventually receive their immortal bodies, so when it says they have eternal life, yet they will reproduce in the millenium, Does that mean that they (the sheep in matt25) will DIE during the millennium? and only then be given the immortal bodies?
That is exactly what we saw in Jesus ministry and in this day...rebellios Jews.
In fact, Jesus calls them a harlot.
Still God's people, but rebellious.
But it is conjecture to say the ac does not kill everyone refusing the mark.
The word of God says he does kill them.
Further,if these saints are there during the GT, they are stung by the flying scorpions because ONLY JEWS are protected.
So,apparently, there are no saints on the planet during the GT.
I don't see how those two components can be removed.
And no,there is nothing even remotely saying there is another resurrection of saints immediately after the GT.
There will PROBABLY be christians resurrected at the GWTJ gathering. But that is after the millineum.
In fact, Jesus calls them a harlot.
Still God's people, but rebellious.
But it is conjecture to say the ac does not kill everyone refusing the mark.
The word of God says he does kill them.
Further,if these saints are there during the GT, they are stung by the flying scorpions because ONLY JEWS are protected.
So,apparently, there are no saints on the planet during the GT.
I don't see how those two components can be removed.
And no,there is nothing even remotely saying there is another resurrection of saints immediately after the GT.
There will PROBABLY be christians resurrected at the GWTJ gathering. But that is after the millineum.
Jesus and the patriarchs resurrected 2k yrs ago. It even says some were recognised walking the streets. They are called firstfruits which envokes the other 3 parts of harvest.
We have the remaining main harvest which is the rapture,with the other sections harvested during the GT.
All completed,and all invited at the marriage supper.
(See the parable of the wedding supper)
That is why the marriage supper is at the end of the GT,so all invited will be seated
We have the remaining main harvest which is the rapture,with the other sections harvested during the GT.
All completed,and all invited at the marriage supper.
(See the parable of the wedding supper)
That is why the marriage supper is at the end of the GT,so all invited will be seated
Another component would be " first fruit Jews" the 144k
The fact they are separate,speaks to the end of the gentile harvest/dealings.
Now God begins his harvest of his people,the Jews. ( firstfruit Jews, because gentile harvest is over)
The parable of the wedding supper has 3 sets invited.
Tell me who the first set is.
God is never on plan b
The fact they are separate,speaks to the end of the gentile harvest/dealings.
Now God begins his harvest of his people,the Jews. ( firstfruit Jews, because gentile harvest is over)
The parable of the wedding supper has 3 sets invited.
Tell me who the first set is.
God is never on plan b
Agreed. Yes. 
[I believe v.40's "the least of these My brethren" are a believing remnant of Israel/Jews who will have come to faith within the tribulation period/7-yrs/70th-Wk (after the Rapture of "the Church which is His body");--the Sheep and goats (separate to these) are of the Gentile nations (plural)]
[I believe v.40's "the least of these My brethren" are a believing remnant of Israel/Jews who will have come to faith within the tribulation period/7-yrs/70th-Wk (after the Rapture of "the Church which is His body");--the Sheep and goats (separate to these) are of the Gentile nations (plural)]
Well first, John says they were beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they did not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark. Then John says "they lived" and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Then regarding them, it says that this is the first resurrection. Therefore, it is clear that when it says "they were beheaded" and then "they lived" that they were resurrected. Therefore, it is not a poor translation, because the context demonstrates that they were dead and then resurrected. Below is the scripture:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
* Beheaded
* They lived (This is the first resurrection)
It's just a matter of looking at the entire context and not just focusing in on one word.
"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those having been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who did not worship the beast, nor his image, and did not take the mark upon the forehead, and upon their hand. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
* Beheaded
* They lived (This is the first resurrection)
It's just a matter of looking at the entire context and not just focusing in on one word.