Till the Son of man be come

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KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#61
Nov 23, 2013
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#61
Jackson123 said:
I believe, there Will be persecution before His second coming, than people flee from city to city and when they arrive to another city they preach the gospel, and Jesus come before they go to all cities.
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Jesus said he would do it before the disciples that were standing right there with him covered the city.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#62
Feb 6, 2014
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#62
KJV1611 said:
Jesus said he would do it before the disciples that were standing right there with him covered the city.
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I believe Jesus talk to Christian. Not only to the apostle that setanding there.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#63
Nov 23, 2013
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#63
notuptome said:
You do not grasp the context of the passage. It is evident that you wish the context to be first century but Christ is speaking to the last days before His second advent.

Verse 22 speaks of the deliverance of those who are faithful to the end of the tribulation. These will then be delivered at the second coming of Christ.

Scripture can always mean one of two things. Only one is correct and the other is error.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I think I do grasp it. :)
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#64
Nov 23, 2013
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#64
Endoscopy said:
Looking at your screen name you are a proud proponent of the flawed KJV version. Language changes over time. 1611 is 400 years old and several words have changed meaning in that time. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill." in modern translations is "You shall not murder." In 1611 kill meant to deliberately murder. Today it is used for both accidental deaths and deliberate action. For example. He was killed accidentally falling off a cliff. He was killed bering pushed off of a cliff. Context says which it is.
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What difference does the version make in this verse, all the ones I checked say exactly the same thing.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#66
Jul 18, 2017
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#66
KJV1611 said:
Repectfully, the context of Matthew 10 is that Jesus would come before the disciples would go over the cities of Israel.
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As I already stated, theres are several revelations within that one passage some pertaining to the time of Christ's ministry, others going forward until the second coming. The Bible is not a textbook of systematic theology, and sometimes past, present, and future are all within one passage. There are also double applications of some prophecies.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#67
Nov 23, 2013
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#67
Nehemiah6 said:
As I already stated, theres are several revelations within that one passage some pertaining to the time of Christ's ministry, others going forward until the second coming. The Bible is not a textbook of systematic theology, and sometimes past, present, and future are all within one passage. There are also double applications of some prophecies.
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You know that Jesus was crucified, went to hell and came back to earth BEFORE the disciples went to all the cities of Israel don’t you?
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#68
Oct 13, 2017
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#68
KJV1611 said:
Repectfully, the context of Matthew 10 is that Jesus would come before the disciples would go over the cities of Israel.

Christ did exactly that, exactly what that verse said he would do. Think about, when did Jesus leave this earth and return again?
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The whole chapter 10 is Jesus sending his disciples to travel through Israel with the power to do miraculous things healing and helping the people while testifying to them. They were to take nothing and subsist on what was given them. Any town that rejected them they were to shake the dust off of their feet and the city was condemned. This was happening then not in the future. Why do you and others try to make it something else?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#69
Nov 23, 2013
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#69
Endoscopy said:
The whole chapter 10 is Jesus sending his disciples to travel through Israel with the power to do miraculous things healing and helping the people while testifying to them. They were to take nothing and subsist on what was given them. Any town that rejected them they were to shake the dust off of their feet and the city was condemned. This was happening then not in the future. Why do you and others try to make it something else?
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I never said it was future. I’ve been saying the whole time that it’s not future.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#70
Feb 6, 2014
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#70
KJV1611 said:
You can believe whatever you want but Jesus was speaking to the twelve.
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Jesus live 2000 years ago, He talk to people that live 2000 ago, majority are jews. And what He say is publish AS a bible. Is that mean bible only for those that hear His sermon 2000 years ago?
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#71
Nov 23, 2013
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#71
Jackson123 said:
Jesus live 2000 years ago, He talk to people that live 2000 ago, majority are jews. And what He say is publish AS a bible. Is that mean bible only for those that hear His sermon 2000 years ago?
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No the Bible is good for all times but the statement Christ made about his return was that he would return during the time of the twelve disciples.... and he did exactly that. He left earth and went to hell then three days later came back to earth.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#74
Feb 6, 2014
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#74
KJV1611 said:
No the Bible is good for all times but the statement Christ made about his return was that he would return during the time of the twelve disciples.... and he did exactly that. He left earth and went to hell then three days later came back to earth.
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But Jesus not return yet, how you know Jesus return in AD 70, where is the proof? If Jesus already return in AD 70 why we still here now.
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

Banned
#75
Nov 23, 2013
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#75
Jackson123 said:
But Jesus not return yet, how you know Jesus return in AD 70, where is the proof? If Jesus already return in AD 70 why we still here now.
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I didn’t say Jesus returned in AD 70. I said he died on the cross then went to hell to minister to the saints and then three days later he returned to earth. Don’t you agree that he did that?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#78
Apr 18, 2016
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#78
Endoscopy said:
I answered the question. I will repeat the answer. Why do you assume the we is specifically him and not the collective we of all Christians at the time of his coming. Keep in mind that at times English is ambiguous when using personal pronouns. You will have to go to the original language to verify who "we" is.
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Well, that's really absurd because there's a 'we', which stands for the believers that are alive during Christ's coming and there's a 'them' which stands for believers that are dead during Christ's coming. Paul should have counted himself collectively amongst 'them' that would be raised and be caught up with those that are alive.

It gets worse for your theology because initially, Paul counted himself amongst the dead who will be raised and be caught up together with his listeners at Corinth in their life time and not some 2000 years after:

2 Cor 4:
11For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that his life may also be revealed in our mortal body. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.

13It is written: “I believed; therefore I have spoken.” b Since we have that same spirit of c faith, we also believe and therefore speak, 14because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you to himself. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God.

Paul did not make a mistake twice, he knows what he is teaching which is miles apart from your understanding. Paul is not teaching a future resurrection but a continuous one. and of course he has a question for you:

1 Cor 15:29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

Note; Paul is not asking "...if there will be no resurrection, what will they do...".
With your false theology, you'll never ever, have an answer to this question.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#79
Aug 3, 2018
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#79
Paul was tasked with speaking to, for, and about "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN], and as such, when he used the word "we" in the phrase "then we which are alive and remain" [subject: Rapture, pertaining SOLELY to "the Church which is His body," not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods], he was conveying "then we [of the Church which is His body] which are alive and remain..." (of which "Church which is His body," the DEAD IN CHRIST are ALSO a part), and it is "the Church which is His body" which will be caught up together [AS ONE; ONE BODY--distinct from how Isa27:12-13 describes a separate gathering (verb) described as being done "ONE BY ONE," not the same but at a wholly separate time frame and destination, etc ]


Again, this is the concept of the "proleptic 'you'" (or 'we,' I suppose), where some are talked to as representing THE WHOLE (of the same category).


Same with the disciples in Matt10, as those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom was promised.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#80
Feb 6, 2014
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#80
KJV1611 said:
I didn’t say Jesus returned in AD 70. I said he died on the cross then went to hell to minister to the saints and then three days later he returned to earth. Don’t you agree that he did that?
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Yep he die ans rise, I agree.

But I am not agree matt 10:23 talking about only 2000 years ago. Christian had been persecute all the time till now. It may not in america, but in communist country, islam country etc.
Look the context

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

Before verse 23 there are 2 verse that happen in the same time

Can you proof before Jesus risen from the death, brother deliver up the brother, big persecution as state in verse 21 and 22.

Persecution happen not during 3 days from Jesus die to Jesus rise. Persecution happen after Jesus ascendended to heaven.

So I am not agree with your interpretation.
 
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