Why Jesus is NOT coming soon

[Noose]

There is no reason to think it must be "way after 70 AD".

It could be about the Asyrian or the Babylonian captivity without any problem.

Matt 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Nothing happened in 70 AD according to Jesus. Wars and rumors of wars doesn't not necessarily mean the end.
Between you and Jesus we already know who is lying.

 

[Noose]

No, in 30 AD the last week began, in its middle (33 AD) Christ was crucified. Everything fits perfectly.

There it no need to connect the destruction of the temple in 70 AD to this last week.

There is every reason because Daniel says desolation and wars will continue until the end that is determine will be poured on him (antichrist).

 

[Noose]

When has God gathered Israel from among the nations?

Nowhere in Galatians is land spoken of . . . but faith.

And when has our present earth and its elements melted in the heat? Must be something future.

Those promises have a spiritual meaning which are clearly above your understanding.

Rev 18:3 All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy through the extravagance of her luxury.” 4Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues. 5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

When God says in Revelation, "..my people, come out of Babylon..." does He mean He will be telling Netanyahu to get out of Syria?

 

[Ahwatukee]

I see a clause in I Corinthians that gives me all the faith in eternal security that I need. Our works for Christ will be judged and if any works are burned as wood, hay or stubble the Bible says that that believer shall suffer loss, yet he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

We're not talking about works, nor are we saved by works. Salvation is obtained by faith in the shed blood of Christ. If anyone is not having faith, then their works are irrelevant.

You are using verses that Christ directed to Israel and assuming that they apply equally to the church.

That is not true. None of the scriptures that I used were directed at Israel. I used Paul's letter to the Corinthians and Jesus letters to the seven churches.

When the 'kingdom of heaven' is used to begin a parable - Jesus is speaking of the Millennium.

If that were true, then the kingdom of heaven, would not be the king of heaven. It would be a contradiction in terms. For example:

"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."

In the scripture above, Jesus promises that that He is going to prepare places for us in His Father's house, which could only refer to heaven and which is synonymous with "the kingdom of heaven" and which does not infer the millennial kingdom and that because the millennial kingdom will be on earth.

Salvation is and has always been obtained through faith. No faith, no salvation. I given you examples and scripture. You can of course continue to believe what you do, but I will stay with what I have presented. Once again, here is what Paul said to the Gentile Colossians:

"But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—[IF] you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel."

"For we have become partakers of Christ, [IF] we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end"


Both of those scriptures have conditions attached to them "if we continue in faith." We are not just saved to be saved, so that we can turn back to willfully living according to the sinful nature. If a believer turns back to the sinful nature, while in that state they are accumulating sin which leads to death. This is the truth of scripture. OSAS takes does away with the fear of God. Did you read the following scripture:

"But watch yourselves, or your hearts will be weighed down by dissipation, drunkenness, and the worries of life—and that day will spring upon you suddenly like a trap. For it will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth. So keep watch at all times, and pray that you may have the strength to escape all that is about to happen and to stand before the Son of Man.”

The above is not to Israel, but to the church. Notice that, believers who fall back into dissipation, drunkenness and the cares of this life (sinful nature), Jesus said, that period of God's wrath will close on them that like a trap, meaning that they will be left here when He comes for the church to endure His wrath.

Pay attention to what these scriptures are saying.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When the 'kingdom of heaven' is used to begin a parable - Jesus is speaking of the Millennium.

Agreed.

The phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" refers to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, which will commence upon His "RETURN" there (that is, to the earth).

 

[Ahwatukee]

In the context of the Flood, we can also apply "taken" to Noah and the occupants of the Ark, while the ones "left" would be all who perished in the Flood. They were "left behind" and then "taken" by the Flood waters.

The scripture makes clear that those being taken are those outside of the ark, not Noah and his family. For regarding them the scripture says "and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away." By claiming that the "one taken" is referring to Noah and his family, you would be saying that Noah of whom God told that He was going to flood the earth and who was building a large ship in preparation for it, that he knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came.

It is those outside the ark, the wicked, that "knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

I'm surprised that you would even suggest that Nehemiah.

Your interpretation is complex, whereas this is simple given the exhortation to watchful.

There is nothing at all complex about it.

* The comparison to the "one taken" group are being compared to the wicked who were taken away in the flood

* When Jesus said, "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples said "where, Lord," i.e. where are they going to be taken?

* Regarding the "one taken" Jesus responded with "wherever the dead body is, their will the vultures/birds be gathered

* In saying this, Jesus was making reference to the end of the age when that angel calls all the birds of the air who will eat the flesh of all who are gathered there, including the "ones taken." - Rev.19:17

 

[Ahwatukee]

Agreed.

The phrase "the kingdom of the heavens" refers to the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, which will commence upon His "RETURN" there (that is, to the earth).

Then, if it is on the earth, the "kingdom of heaven" would be a contradiction of terms. For the life of me, I don't know why people attempt to interpret "the kingdom of heaven" to mean His kingdom on earth. The kingdom of heaven is exactly what it states, "the kingdom of heaven," i.e. up above. The term is self explanatory.

If the kingdom of heaven is referring to the millennial kingdom on earth, then what would the kingdom of heaven, the place where God rules from, be called? The phrase "kingdom of heaven" is self explanatory to mean the kingdom of HEAVEN, which is above the earth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I doubt I can convince you (it's late, and I'm tired ), but perhaps you could consider a couple of related things:

--the word "King" is only used TWO times in all of the epistles, and both of them are referring to FUTURE (ex: "Which in His times He shall shew [openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords"--this is at the time surrounding His "RETURN" [rather than when we, the Church, are at "the meeting of the Lord... IN THE AIR" UP THERE "WITH Him" (as in, solely up there)])

--Revelation 11:15 [blb] states, " And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were great voices in heaven, saying: "The kingdom [singular] of the world has become that of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign to the ages of the ages." [see also Daniel 7:27 (following the specific time period in v.25), "and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven..."; also Daniel 2:44 [bsb] "In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and this kingdom will not be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever."

--I had another thought... but lost it behind my droopy eyelidzzzzz

Good night, for now...

 

[JaumeJ]

I know what a true church is, I'm asking the cultist which cult he believes is the true church. Unfortunately, he won't answer. He did make the statement that all organized churches are from the Antichrist - so my vote is that he is a Moron . . . er, a Mormon.

2Ti 4:2 preach the word; be urgent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

 

[Hevosmies]

Then, if it is on the earth, the "kingdom of heaven" would be a contradiction of terms. For the life of me, I don't know why people attempt to interpret "the kingdom of heaven" to mean His kingdom on earth. The kingdom of heaven is exactly what it states, "the kingdom of heaven," i.e. up above. The term is self explanatory.

If the kingdom of heaven is referring to the millennial kingdom on earth, then what would the kingdom of heaven, the place where God rules from, be called? The phrase "kingdom of heaven" is self explanatory to mean the kingdom of HEAVEN, which is above the earth.

I have also heard many preachers say the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are completely different things.... But then there is this:

Matthew 19:23-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

BOOM!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I have also heard many preachers say the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are completely different things.... But then there is this:

Matthew 19:23-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

BOOM!

There are some things that can be said equally about both.

Then there are other things... things that can be said about the one, that cannot be said about the other.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have also heard many preachers say the kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are completely different things.... But then there is this:

Matthew 19:23-24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

BOOM!

The kingdom of God can encompass all creation, for God created and owns everything. However, the phrase "kingdom of heaven" is self explanatory. Unfortunately, there are those who insist on interpreting "the kingdom of heaven" as "the kingdom of heaven on earth," which is just a futile attempt at misinterpreting the meaning of the phrase in order to support their belief. For example, when Jesus responded to the faith of the Gentile centurion, He said,

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

Those who believe that the wedding feast will take place during the millennial kingdom, attempt to make the "kingdom of heaven" as referring to the kingdom of heaven on earth. However, the designation is self explanatory identifying the wedding feast taking place in heaven. They attempt this with other scriptures like "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise," saying that "the comma should be placed after the word "today" so that instead of the scripture demonstrating that the man would be in paradise with Jesus that very day, they change it to mean that Jesus was telling the man on that day that he would eventually be in paradise with him. They do the same with "this generation will not pass away," attempting to make "this generation" the one that Jesus was living in, in order to support their belief in preterism, instead of the generation being identified with all of those signs that Jesus mentions in Matt.24, which hasn't happened yet.

 

[Hevosmies]

The kingdom of God can encompass all creation, for God created and owns everything. However, the phrase "kingdom of heaven" is self explanatory. Unfortunately, there are those who insist on interpreting "the kingdom of heaven" as "the kingdom of heaven on earth," which is just a futile attempt at misinterpreting the meaning of the phrase in order to support their belief. For example, when Jesus responded to the faith of the Gentile centurion, He said,

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

Those who believe that the wedding feast will take place during the millennial kingdom, attempt to make the "kingdom of heaven" as referring to the kingdom of heaven on earth. However, the designation is self explanatory identifying the wedding feast taking place in heaven. They attempt this with other scriptures like "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise," saying that "the comma should be placed after the word "today" so that instead of the scripture demonstrating that the man would be in paradise with Jesus that very day, they change it to mean that Jesus was telling the man on that day that he would eventually be in paradise with him. They do the same with "this generation will not pass away," attempting to make "this generation" the one that Jesus was living in, in order to support their belief in preterism, instead of the generation being identified with all of those signs that Jesus mentions in Matt.24, which hasn't happened yet.

Hey Ahwatukee. Do you believe we go back to the Torah in the millennium? Or what will be the "Law of the Land" in that time? Will there be animal sacrifices? What will be the plan of salvation then?
Or will we follow NT there?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hey Ahwatukee. Do you believe we go back to the Torah in the millennium? Or what will be the "Law of the Land" in that time? Will there be animal sacrifices? What will be the plan of salvation then?
Or will we follow NT there?

WE (believers in Christ) will be in our immortal and glorified bodies prior to the tribulation period and during the millennium. The church which will have previously been resurrected will be ruling with Christ. Whatever the situation is on the earth regarding the law of the land during millennium or whether there will be animal sacrifices, will be specifically for Israel and those in their mortal bodies living during the millennial kingdom.

I do know that the millennial period will be a time of unprecedented peace:

The wolf will live with the lamb,

the leopard will lie down with the goat,

the calf and the lion and the yearling together;

and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear,

their young will lie down together,

and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

The infant will play near the cobra’s den,

and the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.

They will neither harm nor destroy

on all my holy mountain,

for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord

as the waters cover the sea.

 

[Absolutely]

Hello Nehemiah6,

Your claim above is one of my pet peeves. The "one taken" of the "one will be taken and the other left" parable is not about the gathering of the church! Let's look at the actual scripture:

"For the coming of the Son of Man (second coming) will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40“Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. 41“Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left."

The "one taken" is being compared to those "taken" in the flood. Therefore, the comparison is wicked to wicked.

Luke's version is a little more revealing:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When Jesus says, "one will be taken" the disciples ask "where, Lord?" i.e. where are they going to be taken. The Lord responds with "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

Jesus' response regarding "where there is a dead body, there the vultures/birds will gather," is in reference to an event which takes place as Jesus is returning to the earth to end the age:

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” - Rev.19:17-18

Those of the "one taken" group, will be those wicked who will have made it alive through the time of God's wrath until Christ comes. Then, according to the parable found in Matt.13:24-29, 37-43, at the end of the age, the angels will go throughout the earth and "first" gather the weeds, i.e. the "one taken." The angels will take them to where Jesus descends at Armageddon and they will all be killed by the double-edged sword (word of God) and the birds/vultures that will have been gathered by the angel, will eat their flesh.

Those who will be taken of the "one taken" group are not the righteous, nor does their being taken have anything to do with the gathering of the church. It is the wicked who are in view and will be taken.

Does not fit.
Firstly setting does not fit.
Secondly every one taken is with someone. So you are parring righteous with wicked. ( a righteous and wicked in same bed)
Thirdly the weeds are burned,not eaten by vultures.
Fourth the only ones thrown into fire is after the mil at the GWTJ.
Think about it. If indeed the wicked are gathered FIRST,as you say,that means there are roughly millions of righteous living with millions of wicked. So millions of righteous survive the gt, and basically are in a nomans land in the kingdom. A in between state. No glorified body,no resurrection,no wedding supper, and yet the martyrs,the firstfruits,the main rapture,the dead in christ risen ones, the 144k, and the jewish remnant, have everything.

No, the ones taken are the bride,which is evedently half the church.

And as you say,noah was used as a picture. Which we see the righteous taken first.

The 2 in a bed is 2 christians. One wise,one foolish.
Housetop,working in a mil,in a field.
None of those are apocolyptic scenes.

We are seeing the rapture in the one taken.
If you remove "vultures and corpses" the one taken being wicked has no merit.
Vultures and corpses is an expression, not a place.
" where there is smoke,there is fire"
Just a description...,not a place.

 

[Absolutely]

Not even the math works. The wicked outnumber us what...10 to 1?...100 to 1?

the church is raptured,and millions are martyred, so that leaves what....millions to 1???

Lets play this out. The one left behind is righteous. Half earths population. That also means half of earth population DOES NOT HAVE THE MARK,and are working jobs!!!
Plus you have one christian in a bed with someone that has the mark,of the beast!!!!
No way is it one righteous that is left....no way

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not even the math works. The wicked outnumber us what...10 to 1?...100 to 1?

the church is raptured,and millions are martyred, so that leaves what....millions to 1???

Lets play this out. The one left behind is righteous. Half earths population. That also means half of earth population DOES NOT HAVE THE MARK,and are working jobs!!!
Plus you have one christian in a bed with someone that has the mark,of the beast!!!!
No way is it one righteous that is left....no way

"‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.”

The weeds are collected first by the angels (one taken) to be killed when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. And the wheat (great tribulation saints) are gathered and brought into the millennial kingdom.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No way is it one righteous that is left....no way

The "righteous" are LEFT on the earth, for it [the CONTEXT here] is the commencing of the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom [comp. Dan2:35 with Gen9:1 - Noah was "left" to continue on the earth and "[ACTIVELY] FILL" it, "FILL the earth"/"FILLED the whole earth"]

The text in Matthew 24:39 "And they knew not until the flood came and took them all away"; It's not that the unbelievers had never heard judgment was coming [Noah knew this and prepared!, by the way (and was a preacher of righteousness, no less)], it's that they disregarded God's word via Noah, and thus perished in the flood judgment.


By the way, "took them ALL away" and "destroyed them ALL" refer to the time of His Second Coming to the earth (NOT our Rapture)

 

[Absolutely]

"‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At the proper time I will tell the harvesters, “First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.”

The weeds are collected first by the angels (one taken) to be killed when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. And the wheat (great tribulation saints) are gathered and brought into the millennial kingdom.

It says they are burned. That is the gwtj.

In mat 24 they ask 3 questions.
Reread that. Jesus is addressing multiple issues.

The wheat is harvested with the tares. It is impossible to cut them separately.
This further depicts a double gathering at the gwtj.
Reread that. You will see

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It says they are burned. That is the gwtj.

In mat 24 they ask 3 questions.
Reread that. Jesus is addressing multiple issues.

The wheat is harvested with the tares. It is impossible to cut them separately.
This further depicts a double gathering at the gwtj.
Reread that. You will see

Just because it says they are "burned" (to burn) doesn't necessarily mean "GWTj," does it? (I think it might say "furnace OF the fire," by the way, vv.42,50).

Let me ask you this, when do you think this sentence was referring to, when the guy said, "I am tormented in this FLAME"? [Lk16:24] (his brothers hadn't yet arrived, and apparently still had "opportunity/time" to keep from going there also)…



[Rev19:19/16:14-16/Armageddon = Isa24:21-22 "punished/prison/pit... and after many days [the MK], shall they be punished" (the GWTj is the final carrying out of the sentence [for all of the "dead [unsaved]" of all times])]