Amen, they do not. They negate the widely used interpretation of them though.
What is the widely used interpretation of them? It's obvious what those verses are saying. They do not teach that only unbelievers have sinned, but believers never sin.
Sin is a noun in verse eight. It does not say we are sinning it says we have sin; there is difference. We can have sin in us that needs to be confessed (assented to).
If we say we have no sin (present tense). We are not sinless 100% of the time, but that does not mean that we sin 100% of the time either. (1 John 1:8-2:1).
But just because we have the propensity to sin throughout our life doesn't mean we will.
We are not forced to sin, yet the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. The struggle is real! You did not answer my question from my last post - "Do you claim to live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% (exactly as Jesus lived)?"
In verse 10 sin is a verb in is being stated in the past tense.
Yes, past tense and verse 8 is in the present tense.
We have the power through GOD through Christ not to sin, but to say that we have not sinned or that we will not always have the propensity to sin; is to say GOD is a liar; for have sinned (Rom. 3:22) and need Christ.
The power to not sin is through Christ, yet the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. (Galatians 5:17) The struggle is real! Even for those who deny it. Did any of the apostles claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time?
But now a righteousness of God has been revealed apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith of Jesus Christ into all and upon all those believing; for there is no difference,
Amen! Righteousness "apart from the Law" through faith in Jesus Christ.
Then do we make law of no effect through faith? Let it not be! But we establish law.
We establish, that Christ fulfilled the law. We establish, the law and it’s righteous requirements are fulfilled in us through Christ. We establish, that Christ is the fulfillment of the types and shadows and signs. Therefore: we establish, that Christ ESTABLISHES the FULL revelation of the law, "its in HIM". If one reads the following verses after Romans 3:31 in context, Paul shows that Abraham was accounted as righteous through faith before circumcision and that righteousness in not for Abraham alone but for also those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 4:21-25). Jesus Christ is the revelation of the promise "seed." John 1:17 - The law came through Moses but Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ".
The righteousness of faith says this: "Do not say in your heart, Who will go up into Heaven?" (that is, to bring down Christ (the Word; the Law; GOD'S Commandments); or, "Who will go down into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the Law; GOD'S Commandments) up from the dead.) But what does it say? "The word (Christ ; the Law; GOD'S Commandments) is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we proclaim) .
For (the faith in which we proclaim; Christ (the word; the Law in the heart and mouth) is the end of (written) law for righteousness to everyone that believes.
(Rom 3:21-22, 31; 10:6-8; Deut. 30:12-14; Heb 8:10 Rom 10:4 )
You can never seem to discuss faith and Christ without mixing law and grace.
Romans 10:5 - For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." 6
But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that
if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For
with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says,
"Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." *Also see (Romans 3:22-28; 4:2-6; Galatians 2:16; 3:10-14).
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. (Php 3:12-15 KJV)
This sounds like a contradiction at first glance. Verse 12 -
"..not that I have already become perfect.." Verse 15 -
"..as many as are perfect.."
In verse 12, Greek scholar AT Robertson comments - "Or am already made perfect. Perfect passive indicative (state of completion) of teleios, old verb from teleio and that from telo (end). Paul pointedly denies that he has reached a spiritual impasse of non-development." In verse 15, he comments - "Here the term teleioi means
relative perfection, not the absolute perfection."
So depending on the context, "perfect" may mean "absolute perfection" or "relative perfection," which is in regards to maturity or completeness and not necessarily absolute perfection/sinless perfection.
So do you believe that Paul is using the word "perfect" in the sense of absolute perfection in verse 12 and relative perfection in verse 15? People who teach sinless perfection try to say that verse 12 and verse 15 both refer to absolute perfection.
Amen and that is what Eccl. 7:20 speaks. Man without the Wisdom of GOD (Christ in the heart and mouth) can not live without sinning. Eccl 7:19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty which are in the city.
Eccl 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
Verse 20 is being stated in reference to verse 19 the naturally wise man who is without the Wisdom which is of GOD. Without that Wisdom which is through HIS Spirit through Christ we are without the strength and will fail. But through Christ; the Wisdom which is from above we are strengthen more than ten of the naturally righteous.
Yet even man with the Wisdom of God can still stumble and sin. The apostle Peter certainly did. (Matthew 26:30-35; Luke 22:54-60; Galatians 2:11-14). So much for sinless perfection.
Amen! Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead (separated from) sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:
(1Pe 2:24-25)
So at least we agree that believers do find Wisdom and strength in Christ, yet that does not mean believers will never stumble at all. Especially babes in Christ. (1 Corinthians 3:1-3) Believers begin as babes in Christ and growing to maturity is a process.
Chapter 6- 8 in Romans is very profound. Most read chapter seven and rip it out of context and or do not have proper understanding of the text
Chapter 6-8 in Romans is very profound indeed! Those who teach sinless perfection rip chapter 7 out of context and do not have proper understanding of the text.
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