Temple of God - Christians or a physical building in Jerusalem?

[trofimus]

Usage of "the temple of God" in the New Testament:

"This man has been saying, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.'"
Mt 26:61 (Christ meant his body, so this use is probably irrelevant)

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in your midst? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy that person; for God's temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
1 Cor 3:16

What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
2 Cor 6:16

He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thessalonians 2:4

I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.
Rev 11:1 (many similar uses in the book of Relevation, always about the temple in heaven)

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Facts:

1. Paul always uses "temple of God" as a name for Christians.
2. There is no relevant use in the NT that would be about the temple in Jerusalem.

Questions:

1. If Paul meant that the final Antichrist will set himself in the church, why did he not just use "in the church" and made such mysterious statement instead?

2. If Paul meant some kind of 3rd temple, why would he not tell this to his readers (who had the 2nd temple still standing) and why would he use the term never used for physical temple in the NT?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Here's how I understand it:

--Paul, when speaking of us (believers/"the Church which is His body"), he never uses the definite article (as in, "THE temple")

--in other places where the word temple is used, specifically "THE temple," it is showing that "the temple" (and specifically "the temple of God" in this example) is a distinct entity from "them that worship THEREIN" (Rev11:1)

--"the man of sin" will "sit in the temple of God" (and I believe the context of 2Th2 shows the SEQUENCE to be: 2Th2:9a at the BEGINNING of the 7-yrs, 2:4 at the MIDDLE of the 7-yrs, 2:8 at the END of the 7-yrs [paralleling the "for ONE WEEK [7yrs]" of same (also showing "BEGINNING, MIDDLE, END"), in Dan9:27(26); and the event that must happen "FIRST" before the man of sin's "come/arrive/advent/presence/parousia " (v.9a), that is, how the two relate to each other time-wise; IOW, I do not believe "the Church which is His body" will be present on the earth when "the man of sin" ARRIVES at the BEGINNING of the 7-yrs, much less at the time he does the verse 4 "sitteth in the temple of God" thing (at the MIDDLE of the 7-yrs)]

 

[Hevosmies]

Questions:

1. If Paul meant that the final Antichrist will set himself in the church, why did he not just use "in the church" and made such mysterious statement instead?

2. If Paul meant some kind of 3rd temple, why would he not tell this to his readers (who had the 2nd temple still standing) and why would he use the term never used for physical temple in the NT?

Great questions bro.

1. Dont know. Wish it said church if thats what he meant.

2. Thats a great way to look at it, clearly the people who had the second temple still around assumed THAT would be the temple in which the antichrist will claim to be God. BUT keep in mind: The verses go on to say that Jesus will then destroy that antichrist with His breath so clearly that did NOT happen in AD70, because no emperor died during the destruction of Jerusalem or its siege in 70AD.

To answer your question: In light of the NEW TESTAMENT witness, The Christians are NO DOUBT the temple of God. (Lets keep this in mind when reading O.T: prophecy)

 

[Quantrill]

Both temples are being addressed. In (2 Thess. 2:4) it is the physical temple that will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. In (1 Cor. 3:16) and (2 Cor. 6:16), it is temple present on earth today, which is the Church.

Before the Church you had the temple in Israel. During the Church age we are the temple. After we are taken out at the rapture the temple will again be in Israel, a physical temple.

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

The more I study eschatology, the less I understand it.

 

[Hevosmies]

The more I study eschatology, the less I understand it.

LOL. I love you bro

Here is how it is for me: I could listen to a debate on eschatology, one guy comes on and im going "Yeah this guy is right, thats clear as day!". Then the other guy comes on and im like "No this guy got it, he totally debunked the guy before him." and on and on.

Its crazy. No wonder the jews couldnt make heads or tails of the FIRST advent of Jesus, even His apostles had no idea what was going on.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Both temples are being addressed. In (2 Thess. 2:4) it is the physical temple that will be rebuilt in Jerusalem. In (1 Cor. 3:16) and (2 Cor. 6:16), it is temple present on earth today, which is the Church.

Before the Church you had the temple in Israel. During the Church age we are the temple. After we are taken out at the rapture the temple will again be in Israel, a physical temple.

Quantrill

Right. All three usages are "G3485" (example: Matt27:51 same word as 2Th2:4 and same word as 1Cor3:16 [but without the definite article, here in this one])

 

[Hevosmies]

Lets say its the church, the temple, right? And Paul just didnt say the church for some reason, maybe his audience knew what he was talking about:

Do you guys know WHICH MOVEMENT within christianity claims to be God? Try the hyper-charismatic word of faith name it claim it deceivers. Kenneth Copeland or was it Hagin, I saw them on stage screaming "IM GOD". Many of these guys do it, and teach it, Creflo Dollar as well, all these guys really. Its part of their "little gods" doctrine.

Thats something to take note of.

 

[trofimus]

For those of you, who think it will be a physical building built by Jews:

What will make this building to be "of God"?

 

[trofimus]

Lets say its the church, the temple, right? And Paul just didnt say the church for some reason, maybe his audience knew what he was talking about:

Do you guys know WHICH MOVEMENT within christianity claims to be God? Try the hyper-charismatic word of faith name it claim it deceivers. Kenneth Copeland or was it Hagin, I saw them on stage screaming "IM GOD". Many of these guys do it, and teach it, Creflo Dollar as well, all these guys really. Its part of their "little gods" doctrine.

Thats something to take note of.

The standard reformation explanation is the pope. On the other hand, even though the pope has some blasphemious titles, he never called himself to be God.

Preterist explanation is Nero, who did call himself to be God, but it has never been recorded that he was ever in jerusalem not to say sat in the temple.

 

[Hevosmies]

The standard reformation explanation is the pope. On the other hand, even though the pope has some blasphemious titles, he never called himself to be God.

Pope would fit well in the sense that it makes Jesus' return imminent. Meaning: There is always "a pope". One goes another one comes. He is always in position so to speak.

I think you could say he claims to be god by saying he is the vicar of Christ. And if you go back in catholic church history, there are documents that claim he has all authority on earth and EVERYONE is subject to him etc.

Were any reformers premill?

 

[trofimus]

Pope would fit well in the sense that it makes Jesus' return imminent. Meaning: There is always "a pope". One goes another one comes. He is always in position so to speak.

I think you could say he claims to be god by saying he is the vicar of Christ. And if you go back in catholic church history, there are documents that claim he has all authority on earth and EVERYONE is subject to him etc.

If we will look for antichrist in our today's world or recent history, I think that pope or Mohammed fits the best.

On the other hand, there is still something important missing. So I do not know...

 

[Quantrill]

For those of you, who think it will be a physical building built by Jews:

What will make this building to be "of God"?

Are you talking about (2 Thess. 2:4)?

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

Are you talking about (2 Thess. 2:4)?

Quantrill

More about futurist theology (there will be the 3rd temple in Jerusalem). Why would Paul call this temple to be the temple OF GOD?

Because God does not want to have a temple (in the sense of physical building) anymore.

 

[Quantrill]

More about futurist theology (there will be the 3rd temple in Jerusalem). Why would Paul call this temple to be the temple OF GOD?

Because God does not want to have a temple (in the sense of physical building) anymore.

(2 Thess. 2:4) is future.

The third Temple which is the Temple built during the Tribulation period by orthodox Jews, is used by the Tribulation saints later to worship God. (Rev. 11:1-2)

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

In all cases, we can be sure that we are not in the last days.

If Paul meant the church, there is no united church in the world, today.
If Paul meant a physical temple, there is not physical temple in Jerusalem, today.

 

[trofimus]

(2 Thess. 2:4) is future.

The third Temple which is the Temple built during the Tribulation period by orthodox Jews, is used by the Tribulation saints later to worship God. (Rev. 11:1-2)

Quantrill

Orthodox Jews are not people of God, so how does it fit?

 

[trofimus]

LOL. I love you bro

Here is how it is for me: I could listen to a debate on eschatology, one guy comes on and im going "Yeah this guy is right, thats clear as day!". Then the other guy comes on and im like "No this guy got it, he totally debunked the guy before him." and on and on.

Its crazy. No wonder the jews couldnt make heads or tails of the FIRST advent of Jesus, even His apostles had no idea what was going on.

I hope that at least apostles knew what is going on... but I can see in the New Testament a clear belief of the imminent end of everything, nobody probably had a thought it will last 2000 years more and still no end in sight...

 

[Quantrill]

In all cases, we can be sure that we are not in the last days.

If Paul meant the church, there is no united church in the world, today.
If Paul meant a physical temple, there is not physical temple in Jerusalem, today.

I don't know what you mean. How can you be sure we are not in the last days?

The true Church of Christ is always existent on the earth till it is removed. It doesn't matter how united by or divided they are by doctrine. The true Church is united by the Holy Spirit.

Paul in (2 Thess. 2:4) did mean a physical temple. That is why it will be rebuilt.

Quantrill

 

[trofimus]

I don't know what you mean. How can you be sure we are not in the last days?

The true Church of Christ is always existent on the earth till it is removed. It doesn't matter how united by or divided they are by doctrine. The true Church is united by the Holy Spirit.

Paul in (2 Thess. 2:4) did mean a physical temple. That is why it will be rebuilt.

Quantrill

There is no united church in the world where antichrist could seat himself over all Christians.

There is no temple in jerusalem and no situation for it to be built (islam mosque on the place etc.).

So nothing seems to be close to the prophecy, today.