Temple of God - Christians or a physical building in Jerusalem?
- Thread starter trofimus
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
trofimus what about the euphrates river drying up in Revelation?
That hasnt happened yet. And its to make way for the kings of the east, clearly going towards ISRAEL. So something is going on with that region during the end times.
I wonder how did the early church take those verses, considering many of them believed in replacement theology. If you are going to spiritualize the euphrates river, I think you are in serious error lol
That hasnt happened yet. And its to make way for the kings of the east, clearly going towards ISRAEL. So something is going on with that region during the end times.
I wonder how did the early church take those verses, considering many of them believed in replacement theology. If you are going to spiritualize the euphrates river, I think you are in serious error lol
I have some logical problems with this.
a) Orthodox Jews do not believe in jesus Christ and are therefore antichrists, as the apostle John says. Hardly anything built by them can be considered to be "the temple of God.".
b) If they will convert to Christianity and be therefore Christians, they will have no desire to built a physical, old testament temple, because Christianity is about the Spirit.
They will be like: "Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father."
J 4:21
---
So, I am confused with this dispensationalist theology.
a) Orthodox Jews do not believe in jesus Christ and are therefore antichrists, as the apostle John says. Hardly anything built by them can be considered to be "the temple of God.".
b) If they will convert to Christianity and be therefore Christians, they will have no desire to built a physical, old testament temple, because Christianity is about the Spirit.
They will be like: "Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father."
J 4:21
---
So, I am confused with this dispensationalist theology.
-
1
- Show all
Just because they may be anti-Christian at present, doesn't mean many won't turn to Christ in the Tribulation. Remember many Pharisees turned to Christ later also.
In that day, the Church is gone. They are not converting to Christianity. They are returning to their Messiah, Jesus Christ, their King.
Israel always wants and needs a temple. They won't be Christians, they will be saved Israel. Just because they are right with God doesn't mean they don't need a temple.
Quantrill
In that day, the Church is gone. They are not converting to Christianity. They are returning to their Messiah, Jesus Christ, their King.
Israel always wants and needs a temple. They won't be Christians, they will be saved Israel. Just because they are right with God doesn't mean they don't need a temple.
Quantrill
I was just reading Tertullian and his idea is very uncommon today:
"But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem,3445 “let down from heaven,"
He is basically saying, that in the MILLENNIUM already the new jerusalem descends? Thats odd. I always read it that it only descends at the new heaven and new earth, NOT in the millennium.
"But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem,3445 “let down from heaven,"
He is basically saying, that in the MILLENNIUM already the new jerusalem descends? Thats odd. I always read it that it only descends at the new heaven and new earth, NOT in the millennium.
Yes, I read this too. I made a post about it in another thread, you probably did not read it.
Here it is: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-of-desolation.179643/page-7#post-3724290
Here it is: https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...tion-of-desolation.179643/page-7#post-3724290
Irenaeus is writing here AFTER 70AD and says there will be a future temple still, check it out @trofimus
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”4709"
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”4709"
-
1
- Show all
No. That's a popular understanding of that text, but not what is actually being conveyed by Paul.
In verse 2, he's basically saying, don't let anyone convince you that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (which is an extended period of time and includes judgment and "darkness"--it's understandable for them to be convinced that it "IS PRESENT" due to their present ongoing and negative circumstances, per chpt 1, esp v.4 I think it is, but Paul is telling why it ISN'T). See v.15 along with v.2. (basically, don't believe THEM, believe US--what WE taught you)
In verse 3, he's saying, "that day [the extended time period] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE FIRST [ONE THING (ONE EVENT) *first* (the one just spoken of in verse 1)] AND the man of sin be revealed..." (this is after the one event *FIRST* happens). Other places where "the day of the Lord" phrase is used along with "IN THAT DAY," show that this is more than a singular 24-hr day (as these two phrases are also used in THIS context as well).
In verse 2, he's basically saying, don't let anyone convince you that "the day of the Lord IS PRESENT" (which is an extended period of time and includes judgment and "darkness"--it's understandable for them to be convinced that it "IS PRESENT" due to their present ongoing and negative circumstances, per chpt 1, esp v.4 I think it is, but Paul is telling why it ISN'T). See v.15 along with v.2. (basically, don't believe THEM, believe US--what WE taught you)
In verse 3, he's saying, "that day [the extended time period] will not be present if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE FIRST [ONE THING (ONE EVENT) *first* (the one just spoken of in verse 1)] AND the man of sin be revealed..." (this is after the one event *FIRST* happens). Other places where "the day of the Lord" phrase is used along with "IN THAT DAY," show that this is more than a singular 24-hr day (as these two phrases are also used in THIS context as well).
My KJV version, says: "shewing himself that he is God."
As God is love; the Antichrist shewing himself that he is God/love represents him recognizing his system that will have the whole faithless world in love with it, including a place (sitting) in the hearts of the faithful/the Lords temple, where it should not be.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
As God is love; the Antichrist shewing himself that he is God/love represents him recognizing his system that will have the whole faithless world in love with it, including a place (sitting) in the hearts of the faithful/the Lords temple, where it should not be.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This is also interesting what Ireneus says about antichrist:
"Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fullness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein. Jeremiah 8:16 This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved."
Ireneus, Against heresies, book 5, chapter 30, article 2
"Jeremiah does not merely point out his sudden coming, but he even indicates the tribe from which he shall come, where he says, We shall hear the voice of his swift horses from Dan; the whole earth shall be moved by the voice of the neighing of his galloping horses: he shall also come and devour the earth, and the fullness thereof, the city also, and they that dwell therein. Jeremiah 8:16 This, too, is the reason that this tribe is not reckoned in the Apocalypse along with those which are saved."
Ireneus, Against heresies, book 5, chapter 30, article 2