Sabotaging Relationships

[LittleMermaid]

There is a specific man that I want to marry. He is a Christian, he is sweet, tall, friendly, always nice, decent looking, and makes me feel good about myself. He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions especially around me! I'm sure we each have a specific man or woman we want in our minds, right?

The boys I have liked or dated before were missing some of these traits. Maybe they weren't as tall as I would have hoped for. Maybe they weren't that nice. But I dated them anyways...because I don't want to be alone. However, when it was over...I was always relieved (sometimes I was sad...but relieved too). I usually felt great when it was over and it has never taken me more than a week to get over someone.

Whenever a past relationship breaks, I get this almost euphoric feeling that I can do or be anything I want to be without any man holding me back. A lot of the time, those guys just wanted me to fit into their box of a specific woman they had in mind. When the breakup happens...I usually feel happy because it is a chance to find the specific man that I want. It just makes me feel good that I don't have to settle for someone who doesn't fit my idea of what I'm looking for.

But lately, I wonder if maybe I was the one sabotaging those relationships because my heart really wasn't in it. For example, my first boyfriend was a guy I knew online and although he was super sweet...he wasn't a Christian and I wasn't attracted to him either. So I said things that I wasn't sorry for and we eventually called it quits. Did I say these things because I wasn't into him? I think so.

Another example would be a guy I dated years ago...we'll call him James. James was tall and attractive...but he was mean and lived dangerously. He was not what I had in mind either. So when he expected me to apologize for petty things...I told him no. He broke up with me that day and I was relieved.

And this has happened with many boys that I sometimes feel like I would like to get to know better. However, deep down inside, I know they are not what I'm looking for. If I married one of them...I would be settling.

So a couple of things to point out...

I think a lot of people have a specific person they are looking for. It's almost like a box and if you don't fit into the box...my theory is that usually one or both parties will sabotage the relationship so that they could leave and eventually find the one that does fit into the box.

The problem is that no one fits into the box because usually our expectations exceed reality.

What I'm saying is that I'm not upset or hurt that I've been broken up with in the past...because those guys didn't fit my box anyways. I'm just wondering if anyone does...

What are your thoughts? Do you have a box? Have you ever met someone that fits into your box? Or if there is anything you might like to add to this discussion, I'd be very curious to hear it.

Also, I realize that I might sound like someone who is expecting too much from a man...and maybe I am. But at least I'm being honest. It's not that I wouldn't give, for example, a short man a chance...it's just that if he is missing many of the things that I am looking for then I would feel like I'm settling. Does that make sense? I hope it does...and I hope ya'll don't think I'm picky or stuck up. That's not what I'm saying here at all. Just trying to be real.

 

[Lynx]

Almost everything you said made sense to me.

Of course there is a fine line between unreasonable expectations and sensible boundaries. It takes somebody at least moderately self-aware to see the line in one's own life and stay on the right side of it, but sensible boundaries should NOT be compromised. If you have to compromise a boundary or pretend something doesn't matter to get a person, you will have to compromise and pretend to keep the person, and I don't know many people worth compromising and pretending a whole lifetime to keep.

Whether something is an unreasonable expectation or a sensible boundary is of course up to the person, but I think the easiest way to determine which it is would be to ask "Why do I want this factor?" If you can trace your reason for wanting it you can usually figure out whether it makes sense or not.

I was going to cover the part that didn't make sense to me in this post, but then I realized it was a whole other post, so I'll cover it in the next post.

 

[Lynx]

This is the part I don't understand:

But I dated them anyways...because I don't want to be alone.

This is something I have seen a lot, and I mean a LOT! People try to find people to date, people put up with people's faults and shortcomings, people complain a lot about their boyfriends and girlfriends, but they keep at it because "Well it's better than being alone." Really? All this crap is better than being alone? What is so terrible about being alone that people will do anything to avoid it?

And therein lies the problem. People are not running TO other people. People are running AWAY from being alone. This is an important distinction and the root of a lot of failures so I'm going to use a computer analogy here to explain it.

Here lately a lot of people have been switching from Windows to Linux for computer operating systems. The problem is they are not trying to get Linux because they like the idea of Linux. They are just trying to find something besides Windows. They don't like the viruses, the updates you can't turn off, how Windows reports what you do on the computer to other people... so they are trying to find something else, anything else that will work. But they are not running TO Linux, they are running AWAY from Windows.

So what do they do when they get Linux installed on their computers? They start complaining. Linux should look like this, Linux should play these video games, Linux should use this Windows-only program... Linux has programs that work, but they don't look quite right, we are used to programs working like THIS... Because in their hearts what they really want is Windows without all the faults of Windows. They don't really want Linux.

And that is why I think a lot of matches don't work. People aren't trying to find a date for the sake of finding somebody. They are just trying to do something, ANYTHING, to avoid being alone. They aren't running TO a date, they are running AWAY from loneliness.

Personally I don't see what people think is so bad about themselves that they can't stand to be alone with themselves.

 

[Tommy379]

This is the part I don't understand:

This is something I have seen a lot, and I mean a LOT! People try to find people to date, people put up with people's faults and shortcomings, people complain a lot about their boyfriends and girlfriends, but they keep at it because "Well it's better than being alone." Really? All this crap is better than being alone? What is so terrible about being alone that people will do anything to avoid it?

And therein lies the problem. People are not running TO other people. People are running AWAY from being alone. This is an important distinction and the root of a lot of failures so I'm going to use a computer analogy here to explain it.

Here lately a lot of people have been switching from Windows to Linux for computer operating systems. The problem is they are not trying to get Linux because they like the idea of Linux. They are just trying to find something besides Windows. They don't like the viruses, the updates you can't turn off, how Windows reports what you do on the computer to other people... so they are trying to find something else, anything else that will work. But they are not running TO Linux, they are running AWAY from Windows.

So what do they do when they get Linux installed on their computers? They start complaining. Linux should look like this, Linux should play these video games, Linux should use this Windows-only program... Linux has programs that work, but they don't look quite right, we are used to programs working like THIS... Because in their hearts what they really want is Windows without all the faults of Windows. They don't really want Linux.

And that is why I think a lot of matches don't work. People aren't trying to find a date for the sake of finding somebody. They are just trying to do something, ANYTHING, to avoid being alone. They aren't running TO a date, they are running AWAY from loneliness.

Personally I don't see what people think is so bad about themselves that they can't stand to be alone with themselves.

C'mon Lynx.

If people didn't put up with someone's faults, rather be alone, humans would be extinct.

 

[Lynx]

C'mon Lynx.

If people didn't put up with someone's faults, rather be alone, humans would be extinct.

Forming a relationship with a person because you like that person, this I can see.

Desperately searching for a person, any person, sifting through a whole crap load of possible matches, putting up with a lot of junk you really don't want... Just to be avoid being alone? This I cannot see.

 

[Dino246]

There is a specific man that I want to marry. He is a Christian, he is sweet, tall, friendly, always nice, decent looking, and makes me feel good about myself. He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions especially around me! I'm sure we each have a specific man or woman we want in our minds, right?

The boys I have liked or dated before were missing some of these traits. Maybe they weren't as tall as I would have hoped for. Maybe they weren't that nice. But I dated them anyways...because I don't want to be alone. However, when it was over...I was always relieved (sometimes I was sad...but relieved too). I usually felt great when it was over and it has never taken me more than a week to get over someone.

Whenever a past relationship breaks, I get this almost euphoric feeling that I can do or be anything I want to be without any man holding me back. A lot of the time, those guys just wanted me to fit into their box of a specific woman they had in mind. When the breakup happens...I usually feel happy because it is a chance to find the specific man that I want. It just makes me feel good that I don't have to settle for someone who doesn't fit my idea of what I'm looking for.

But lately, I wonder if maybe I was the one sabotaging those relationships because my heart really wasn't in it. For example, my first boyfriend was a guy I knew online and although he was super sweet...he wasn't a Christian and I wasn't attracted to him either. So I said things that I wasn't sorry for and we eventually called it quits. Did I say these things because I wasn't into him? I think so.

Another example would be a guy I dated years ago...we'll call him James. James was tall and attractive...but he was mean and lived dangerously. He was not what I had in mind either. So when he expected me to apologize for petty things...I told him no. He broke up with me that day and I was relieved.

And this has happened with many boys that I sometimes feel like I would like to get to know better. However, deep down inside, I know they are not what I'm looking for. If I married one of them...I would be settling.

So a couple of things to point out...

I think a lot of people have a specific person they are looking for. It's almost like a box and if you don't fit into the box...my theory is that usually one or both parties will sabotage the relationship so that they could leave and eventually find the one that does fit into the box.

The problem is that no one fits into the box because usually our expectations exceed reality.

What I'm saying is that I'm not upset or hurt that I've been broken up with in the past...because those guys didn't fit my box anyways. I'm just wondering if anyone does...

What are your thoughts? Do you have a box? Have you ever met someone that fits into your box? Or if there is anything you might like to add to this discussion, I'd be very curious to hear it.

Also, I realize that I might sound like someone who is expecting too much from a man...and maybe I am. But at least I'm being honest. It's not that I wouldn't give, for example, a short man a chance...it's just that if he is missing many of the things that I am looking for then I would feel like I'm settling. Does that make sense? I hope it does...and I hope ya'll don't think I'm picky or stuck up. That's not what I'm saying here at all. Just trying to be real.

It is unlikely that any one person is going to fit perfectly with your (anyone's) parameters for the ideal mate. It is good to have non-negotiables, but also to have a related category of "desirable but not critical" preferences. Don't accept someone who meets none of these secondaries, even if they fit all of the primaries, but also don't reject someone for being otherwise fitting who misses on a couple of minor issues.

I think your conclusion is correct: you undermined your relationships because they weren't what you wanted. Unfortunately, that is an unhealthy way of dealing with disappointment... and we're all guilty of it. Instead of being up-front and saying, "Having gotten to know you, I realize that you aren't the person I'm choosing to be with forever", we go with passive aggression. It's easier and allows us to avoid the supposedly ugly truth.

There is a flaw in our (Christian) understanding and practice of dating: we don't use that time to examine the other person as we should. We jump in with heart open and eyes closed, when we should have eyes wide open and heart well-guarded. We should not be afraid to say, "This isn't working".

By the way, I noticed your statement, "He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions..." as though being in touch with one's emotions is somehow separate from being masculine. It isn't.

 

[Miri]

If you found the perfect partner, chances are you would not be their
perfect partner and they would find some fault with you.

If you are looking for perfection, better make sure you are perfect too.

 

[Solemateleft]

There is a specific man that I want to marry. He is a Christian, he is sweet, tall, friendly, always nice, decent looking, and makes me feel good about myself. He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions especially around me! I'm sure we each have a specific man or woman we want in our minds, right?

The boys I have liked or dated before were missing some of these traits. Maybe they weren't as tall as I would have hoped for. Maybe they weren't that nice. But I dated them anyways...because I don't want to be alone. However, when it was over...I was always relieved (sometimes I was sad...but relieved too). I usually felt great when it was over and it has never taken me more than a week to get over someone.
Whenever a past relationship breaks, I get this almost euphoric feeling that I can do or be anything I want to be without any man holding me back. A lot of the time, those guys just wanted me to fit into their box of a specific woman they had in mind. When the breakup happens...I usually feel happy because it is a chance to find the specific man that I want. It just makes me feel good that I don't have to settle for someone who doesn't fit my idea of what I'm looking for.
But lately, I wonder if maybe I was the one sabotaging those relationships because my heart really wasn't in it. For example, my first boyfriend was a guy I knew online and although he was super sweet...he wasn't a Christian and I wasn't attracted to him either. So I said things that I wasn't sorry for and we eventually called it quits. Did I say these things because I wasn't into him? I think so.
Another example would be a guy I dated years ago...we'll call him James. James was tall and attractive...but he was mean and lived dangerously. He was not what I had in mind either. So when he expected me to apologize for petty things...I told him no. He broke up with me that day and I was relieved.
And this has happened with many boys that I sometimes feel like I would like to get to know better. However, deep down inside, I know they are not what I'm looking for. If I married one of them...I would be settling.
So a couple of things to point out...
I think a lot of people have a specific person they are looking for. It's almost like a box and if you don't fit into the box...my theory is that usually one or both parties will sabotage the relationship so that they could leave and eventually find the one that does fit into the box.
The problem is that no one fits into the box because usually our expectations exceed reality.
What I'm saying is that I'm not upset or hurt that I've been broken up with in the past...because those guys didn't fit my box anyways. I'm just wondering if anyone does...
What are your thoughts? Do you have a box? Have you ever met someone that fits into your box? Or if there is anything you might like to add to this discussion, I'd be very curious to hear it.
Also, I realize that I might sound like someone who is expecting too much from a man...and maybe I am. But at least I'm being honest. It's not that I wouldn't give, for example, a short man a chance...it's just that if he is missing many of the things that I am looking for then I would feel like I'm settling. Does that make sense? I hope it does...and I hope ya'll don't think I'm picky or stuck up. That's not what I'm saying here at all. Just trying to be real.

I can completely understand where you are coming from regarding your 'box' analogy and the uncertainty of not wanting to settle for anything less than your 'optimal partner.'

I am very careful not to use the term 'perfect' partner - you are correct... We are all guilty of having the idealistic notion of what our 'perfect-union' might be like - only to realize that if not grounded in reality and manage our expectations accordingly - we will inevitably become woefully disappointed.
It is important to remember 'that there is no such thing as a perfect union - just two imperfect people who refuse to give up upon each other!'

That being said there is something to be said for not wanting to 'settle' as you say...
In order to attain an 'optimal partner' - it is essential that you are aware of your own worth and how highly you value yourself...
That is why I refer to this as an 'optimal partner' - knowing that the reality is that a 'sub-optimal' partner is just as likely to provide the foundation for a happy loving lasting relationship - as long as both parties are equally committed to the notion of 'unconditional love.'

For my two older kids (keep in mind I am an analyst and an INFJ personality type) I converted the 'Value Focused Thinking' algorithm that we used for their college selection to help them both to realize - that their 'Choice' in a partner is also out there...
At the time both were dating someone who pursued them - they were the other persons 'Gold-Fish' in a big pond of Fish...

While it was flattering that someone 'Chose' them - they needed to understand that they too have a choice - and then when you rack and stack the collection of things that are important to them - the ones that they happened to be with just happened to be well below the 'sub-optimal' mark. Meaning, anything below the 'sub-optimal' line would amount to them 'settling.'

Whereas - if they valued themselves, and they valued the qualities of a future spouse, parent, partner, provider and spiritual 'crutch' they needed to recognize that their 'Gold-Fish' - 'their Choice' is likely still out there...
Both of them have moved on to better choices for themselves...
Good Luck and God Bless

 

[Solemateleft]

oops 5 minute edit rule expired... meant to inlcude:
There is also something to be said for the old saying "if it seems to good to be true - well - it probably is!"

 

[Tommy379]

Forming a relationship with a person because you like that person, this I can see.

Desperately searching for a person, any person, sifting through a whole crap load of possible matches, putting up with a lot of junk you really don't want... Just to be avoid being alone? This I cannot see.

Yeah, and I'm sure you don't have any "junk."

 

[Pipp]

There is a specific man that I want to marry. He is a Christian, he is sweet, tall, friendly, always nice, decent looking, and makes me feel good about myself. He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions especially around me! I'm sure we each have a specific man or woman we want in our minds, right?

The boys I have liked or dated before were missing some of these traits. Maybe they weren't as tall as I would have hoped for. Maybe they weren't that nice. But I dated them anyways...because I don't want to be alone. However, when it was over...I was always relieved (sometimes I was sad...but relieved too). I usually felt great when it was over and it has never taken me more than a week to get over someone.

Whenever a past relationship breaks, I get this almost euphoric feeling that I can do or be anything I want to be without any man holding me back. A lot of the time, those guys just wanted me to fit into their box of a specific woman they had in mind. When the breakup happens...I usually feel happy because it is a chance to find the specific man that I want. It just makes me feel good that I don't have to settle for someone who doesn't fit my idea of what I'm looking for.

But lately, I wonder if maybe I was the one sabotaging those relationships because my heart really wasn't in it. For example, my first boyfriend was a guy I knew online and although he was super sweet...he wasn't a Christian and I wasn't attracted to him either. So I said things that I wasn't sorry for and we eventually called it quits. Did I say these things because I wasn't into him? I think so.

Another example would be a guy I dated years ago...we'll call him James. James was tall and attractive...but he was mean and lived dangerously. He was not what I had in mind either. So when he expected me to apologize for petty things...I told him no. He broke up with me that day and I was relieved.

And this has happened with many boys that I sometimes feel like I would like to get to know better. However, deep down inside, I know they are not what I'm looking for. If I married one of them...I would be settling.

So a couple of things to point out...

I think a lot of people have a specific person they are looking for. It's almost like a box and if you don't fit into the box...my theory is that usually one or both parties will sabotage the relationship so that they could leave and eventually find the one that does fit into the box.

The problem is that no one fits into the box because usually our expectations exceed reality.

What I'm saying is that I'm not upset or hurt that I've been broken up with in the past...because those guys didn't fit my box anyways. I'm just wondering if anyone does...

What are your thoughts? Do you have a box? Have you ever met someone that fits into your box? Or if there is anything you might like to add to this discussion, I'd be very curious to hear it.

Also, I realize that I might sound like someone who is expecting too much from a man...and maybe I am. But at least I'm being honest. It's not that I wouldn't give, for example, a short man a chance...it's just that if he is missing many of the things that I am looking for then I would feel like I'm settling. Does that make sense? I hope it does...and I hope ya'll don't think I'm picky or stuck up. That's not what I'm saying here at all. Just trying to be real.

One guy a hand full of years ago asked to start calling me in hopes of building a relationship.... we started talking a few times a week and I began praying. This guy fit into my box nicely, but I could not get peace about dating him. He was a preacher with his own home and a nice job , he was interested in me first and approached me very politely.... but I never got peace about him. Every time I prayed about it my heart was troubled strongly. So after a bit of time I prayed for God to open the door to tell him and the exact thing I prayed about God let happen that day... before I even finished praying it. So he and I talked about it and agreed that we shouldn't take it any further. I've not regretted it for one second and he is now married and happy with his decision. Later on God let me see why this guy wasn't for me.

Moral of the story... I no longer have a box, last time I did it didn't matter in the long run .

 

[LittleMermaid]

I have had a couple of people on here (even before this thread) tell me that I'm picky. But I really don't think I am. Miri, I am not looking for perfection as I know it doesn't exist except in our Lord Jesus Christ.
I mean look at my list...wouldn't any Christian want a partner who is a also a believer, nice, friendly, decent looking, etc.? It's not like I am saying I want a 6 foot tall guy or someone who makes 6 figures. Not at all.

Which leads me to my next question...
Do ya'll ever feel like you have all these preferences or a list of qualities that you want but when someone does come up...you throw the list out?
This is exactly what has happened to me in the past! I wasn't interested enough in any of the three boys that I've dated before. The only reason I went out with them was because I was afraid of being alone. Like Misty said, I would pray about it and I felt very uneasy. Clearly, they were not the one for me. With the last one...I prayed to God "Lord, if he is not for me take him away." Later that day he cussed me out and I knew I had to let him go.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's good to have a list...as long as it's not really exclusive.

Dino, if you look up the word "masculine" in the dictionary, it doesn't suggest anything emotional. So that is why I felt the need to include them both.

 

[toinena]

I don't know what I was looking for, and my expectations were not that high... it was more like i could settle with a guy if he was fairly intelligent, had a sense of humor and wasn't ashamed of being seen in public with me. I was sure I was going to end up being dumped, anyway.

And that mindset made me get involved with some really nasty types for two reasons. 1. I knew I didn't deserve to be loved. 2. I would be dumped soon enough anyway.

That way I think I didn't only sabotage the relationship but also were sought out by the wrong guys

Still I had some well kept secret preferences. And I did pray for a man of faith that saw me as God did. And God did answer those prayers and dreams beyond any expectations. So girl. Keep on dreaming! Eric might come sooner rather than later....

 

[toinena]

It is unlikely that any one person is going to fit perfectly with your (anyone's) parameters for the ideal mate. It is good to have non-negotiables, but also to have a related category of "desirable but not critical" preferences. Don't accept someone who meets none of these secondaries, even if they fit all of the primaries, but also don't reject someone for being otherwise fitting who misses on a couple of minor issues.

I think your conclusion is correct: you undermined your relationships because they weren't what you wanted. Unfortunately, that is an unhealthy way of dealing with disappointment... and we're all guilty of it. Instead of being up-front and saying, "Having gotten to know you, I realize that you aren't the person I'm choosing to be with forever", we go with passive aggression. It's easier and allows us to avoid the supposedly ugly truth.

There is a flaw in our (Christian) understanding and practice of dating: we don't use that time to examine the other person as we should. We jump in with heart open and eyes closed, when we should have eyes wide open and heart well-guarded. We should not be afraid to say, "This isn't working".

By the way, I noticed your statement, "He works hard, is masculine, but also gets in touch with his emotions..." as though being in touch with one's emotions is somehow separate from being masculine. It isn't.

Littlemermaid!!!!

See????

The man of your dreams is here!!!!

 

[LittleMermaid]

Littlemermaid!!!!

See????

The man of your dreams is here!!!!

Do you mean Dino? He is seeing someone and she is very lovely.

 

[Lynx]

*Lynx blandly loans littlemermaid his matchmaker flamethrower.

 

[Dino246]

Do you mean Dino? He is seeing someone and she is very lovely.

He's far too old for you anyway.

 

[CandieM]

(keep in mind I am an analyst and an INFJ personality type)

Another INFJ. I'm one too. Neat.

What are your thoughts? Do you have a box? Have you ever met someone that fits into your box? Or if there is anything you might like to add to this discussion, I'd be very curious to hear it.

No. Sexual relationships bother me in general. I only care for pets/cats.

If I say this a couple of times in other posts on the Singles forum, is it polite of me to keep it at that and not keep saying it in future posts, or does it matter if I keep saying that part up there in future comment replies? ☝🤨😳 Does everyone really need to know?

 

[zeroturbulence]

Another INFJ. I'm one too. Neat.


No. Sexual relationships bother me in general. I only care for pets/cats.

If I say this a couple of times in other posts on the Singles forum, is it polite of me to keep it at that and not keep saying it in future posts, or does it matter if I keep saying that part up there in future comment replies? ☝🤨😳 Does everyone really need to know?

I'm INFJ too, with 95% Introvert score. Sorry to keep buggin you, but I'm just really surprised to see someone with similar traits. I know they're not anything to be proud of, but it's still nice to know that there's someone out there who might actually feel the same way about things.

 

[CandieM]

I'm INFJ too, with 95% Introvert score. Sorry to keep buggin you, but I'm just really surprised to see someone with similar traits. I know they're not anything to be proud of, but it's still nice to know that there's someone out there who might actually feel the same way about things.

You're not bugging me. It's cool when I meet another INFJ. It's said that they're rare, I suppose.