adoption by God

[ForestGreenCook]

We all know what Christ did on the cross. Likewise, we all know that the Lord will come back to gather they that are His.
These basic tenets, however, do nothing in eliminating the required overcoming of our fleshly desires in order to be among the spiritually inclined and not the fleshly inclined.
The fleshly inclined shall most certainly die, and will not be among Gods children (Romans 8:13).
You have to rectify all scriptures into a single clear picture, otherwise you have conflicting data in Gods Word, which makes God an author of confusion, which cannot be.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship. We should continually try to mortify the deeds of the body, but only Jesus was sin free.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You pretty much laid it all out here. It is okay to call ourselves saved but we realize there is a finishing component to take place, our immortality. God calls the future, and so should we. That is how He can call things that are not as though they were. If we have the Holy Spirit we will not seek to live in sin, and the fruits of the spirit will show in our lives. It all still rests on faith that God will perform His finishing task, at the resurrection.

The finishing task was finished on the cross when Jesus paid the price for our adoption and he said "it is finished". God judges his adopted children as they live their lives here on earth by his chastening, and they will not be judged at the last day, just those who are not adopted.

 

[Dino246]

Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship. We should continually try to mortify the deeds of the body, but only Jesus was sin free.

Please back up your assertion with Scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

God judges his adopted children...

Christians are not "adopted children" but children who are "born of God" and "born of the Spirit". Big difference.

But God goes "one step further" (if you will) by giving all His children the position of heirs of God and Joint-heirs with Christ. That is what adoption is all about -- the rights and privileges of genuine children of God, not orphans adopted into a strange family. Then He goes *another step further* and places them all into a Royal Priesthood.

Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead...

That is totally incorrect. You can say "he has sinned" and needs to confess his sins and repent.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That is because the New Birth -- being born again -- is a result of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (John 1:11-13)
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Adoption in Scripture is not the same as adoption in human terms, where children who are from other parents are adopted into a family with no blood relationship.

Adoption according to Scripture means those who are children of God are given all the rights and privileges of HEIRS. Normally the eldest son was the heir, but in God's family every child of God is an heir of God, and a joint-heir with Christ, and receives an eternal heavenly inheritance purely by God's grace.

Strong's Concordance
huiothesia: adoption
Original Word: υἱοθεσία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: huiothesia
Phonetic Spelling: (hwee-oth-es-ee'-ah)
Definition: adoption
Usage: adoption, as a son into the divine family.

Vine's Expository Dictionary
...God does not "adopt" believers as children; they are begotten as such by His Holy Spirit through faith. "Adoption" is a term involving the dignity of the relationship of believers as sons; it is not a putting into the family by spiritual birth, but a putting into the position of sons...

So, what are you saying that is different than what I said? Same meaning with different words, or are you disagreeing with me? Are you saying that you are begotten through YOUR faith?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please back up your assertion with Scripture.

Death is ("a separation- Strong's". literally or figuratively) James 1:14-15, Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man; But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death - figuratively, a separation from God's fellowship. When man repents of a sin he has committed and God forgives him, he has been saved (delivered) and restored to God's fellowship.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Christians are not "adopted children" but children who are "born of God" and "born of the Spirit". Big difference.

But God goes "one step further" (if you will) by giving all His children the position of heirs of God and Joint-heirs with Christ. That is what adoption is all about -- the rights and privileges of genuine children of God, not orphans adopted into a strange family. Then He goes *another step further* and places them all into a Royal Priesthood.

That is totally incorrect. You can say "he has sinned" and needs to confess his sins and repent.

Death, according to Strong's means a separation, either figuratively or literally, In James 1:15 it is used figuratively. Eph1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, Christ is God's only begotten Son of God, we are his adopted sons. After Jesus's finished work on the cross, God said, not only, that we are a Royal Priesthood, but also, a chosen generation, an Holy nation, and a peculiar people.

 

[luigi]

The finishing task was finished on the cross when Jesus paid the price for our adoption and he said "it is finished". God judges his adopted children as they live their lives here on earth by his chastening, and they will not be judged at the last day, just those who are not adopted.

Yes, the finishing price was the Lord on the cross for they who would want to become children of God.
What wanting to become children of God means to me is they who want to overcome their carnal natures and be spiritual as God is Spirit/ual.
They who decide they do not want to become Spiritual, but instead have their bellies (carnal natures) as their god/love, will then not become saved from their carnal natures, and will not become children of God.

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.

 

[Dino246]

Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship. We should continually try to mortify the deeds of the body, but only Jesus was sin free.

Death is ("a separation- Strong's". literally or figuratively) James 1:14-15, Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil neither tempteth he any man; But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin; and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death - figuratively, a separation from God's fellowship. When man repents of a sin he has committed and God forgives him, he has been saved (delivered) and restored to God's fellowship.

James 1:15 says, " Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." It seems that you are assuming every sin is "fully-grown" and death is only figurative. That is two extrapolations required to make your point valid. Respectfully, that's a stretch.

The reality is that we are inherently sinful, and that many of our actions and motivations are sinful though we may not realize it. God sometimes waits years before convicting someone of certain sins, but that person is not blocked from fellowship with Him during that time. As David writes in Psalm 103,

8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Our sins have consequences which God does not necessarily mitigate, but our fellowship with Him is based on the finished work of Christ, not on whether we have repented of the latest specific sin, of which we may be completely unaware.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

James 1:15 says, " Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." It seems that you are assuming every sin is "fully-grown" and death is only figurative. That is two extrapolations required to make your point valid. Respectfully, that's a stretch.

The reality is that we are inherently sinful, and that many of our actions and motivations are sinful though we may not realize it. God sometimes waits years before convicting someone of certain sins, but that person is not blocked from fellowship with Him during that time. As David writes in Psalm 103,

8 The Lord is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.
9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;
10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Our sins have consequences which God does not necessarily mitigate, but our fellowship with Him is based on the finished work of Christ, not on whether we have repented of the latest specific sin, of which we may be completely unaware.

Our security is based on the finished work of Christ. Our fellowship with God is when we are actively walking with God. God has no fellowship with sin. When we are actively walking in an un-repented sin, we have no fellowship (separated from God) with God until we repent. We still have our eternal security even though we are actively sinning.

 

[Dino246]

Our security is based on the finished work of Christ. Our fellowship with God is when we are actively walking with God. God has no fellowship with sin. When we are actively walking in an un-repented sin, we have no fellowship (separated from God) with God until we repent. We still have our eternal security even though we are actively sinning.

Please provide scriptural support for the bolded parts. Please explain the relationship between "sins" as used in your post #41, and "actively walking in an un-repented sin" as used here.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, the finishing price was the Lord on the cross for they who would want to become children of God.
What wanting to become children of God means to me is they who want to overcome their carnal natures and be spiritual as God is Spirit/ual.
They who decide they do not want to become Spiritual, but instead have their bellies (carnal natures) as their god/love, will then not become saved from their carnal natures, and will not become children of God.

Philippians 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.

John 6:39 says all that Christ died for will live in heaven, without the lose of even one. Christ's sacrifice was not offered to man for man's acceptance, but it was offered to God for God acceptance, which he did. He died for those who WERE children of God, not, who would want to be children of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please provide scriptural support for the bolded parts. Please explain the relationship between "sins" as used in your post #41, and "actively walking in an un-repented sin" as used here.

James 4:17 - To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. When you are actively participating in a sin, you are walking in sin. If I failed to answer your question, let me know.

 

[Dino246]

James 4:17 - To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. When you are actively participating in a sin, you are walking in sin. If I failed to answer your question, let me know.

In your post #41, you stated, "Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship." More directly, every time he sins, he is separated from fellowship with God until he repents. I don't see that in Scripture.

Then in post #47 you stated, "Our fellowship with God is when we are actively walking with God. ... When we are actively walking in an un-repented sin, we have no fellowship (separated from God) with God until we repent." I don't see that in Scripture either.

Seeing as I'm not aware of Scripture that supports your position, I have requested that support.

Perhaps it would help if you clarified your terminology: is having committing "sins" as you used the term in #41 the same thing as "actively walking in un-repented sin"?

Here's how I read your position: When we are in a perfect state of sinlessness, having repented of absolutely every sin ever committed, then and only then we are in fellowship with God. Any sin, no matter how small, inadvertent, or unrecognized, completely severs us from fellowship with God until we repent of that sin. I just don't see that in Scripture.

What I do see is that continual resistance to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, consciously engaging in sinful activity in spite of God, is a demonstration that relationship with Him is unimportant to us. "If we are faithless, He will remain faithful" (2 Timothy 2:13).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In your post #41, you stated, "Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship." More directly, every time he sins, he is separated from fellowship with God until he repents. I don't see that in Scripture.

Then in post #47 you stated, "Our fellowship with God is when we are actively walking with God. ... When we are actively walking in an un-repented sin, we have no fellowship (separated from God) with God until we repent." I don't see that in Scripture either.

Seeing as I'm not aware of Scripture that supports your position, I have requested that support.

Perhaps it would help if you clarified your terminology: is having committing "sins" as you used the term in #41 the same thing as "actively walking in un-repented sin"?

Here's how I read your position: When we are in a perfect state of sinlessness, having repented of absolutely every sin ever committed, then and only then we are in fellowship with God. Any sin, no matter how small, inadvertent, or unrecognized, completely severs us from fellowship with God until we repent of that sin. I just don't see that in Scripture.

What I do see is that continual resistance to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, consciously engaging in sinful activity in spite of God, is a demonstration that relationship with Him is unimportant to us. "If we are faithless, He will remain faithful" (2 Timothy 2:13).

1 John 1:6-10 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth; But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,

 

[Dino246]

1 John 1:6-10 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth; But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,

Instead of throwing proof-texts at me, how about explaining your position and responding intelligently to the questions I have put to you.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Instead of throwing proof-texts at me, how about explaining your position and responding intelligently to the questions I have put to you.

Sorry Dino, I am not sure what you are asking for. I thought you wanted scriptures pertaining to my comments. Let me put it this way; God sent the nation of Israel to war and told them to not bring back any spoils of the war. Akin brought back some things and buried them in the floor of his tent. God was angry and withdrew his favor from Israel until sin in the camp was removed. God will not have fellowship when sin is active. God says, if we deny him, he will deny us. This idea runs through out the scriptures with God telling his disobedient children to repent, confess, believe etc. If this response is not intelligent enough for you, then I guess I am not up to your level of intelligence.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In your post #41, you stated, "Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship." More directly, every time he sins, he is separated from fellowship with God until he repents. I don't see that in Scripture.

Then in post #47 you stated, "Our fellowship with God is when we are actively walking with God. ... When we are actively walking in an un-repented sin, we have no fellowship (separated from God) with God until we repent." I don't see that in Scripture either.

Seeing as I'm not aware of Scripture that supports your position, I have requested that support.

Perhaps it would help if you clarified your terminology: is having committing "sins" as you used the term in #41 the same thing as "actively walking in un-repented sin"?

Here's how I read your position: When we are in a perfect state of sinlessness, having repented of absolutely every sin ever committed, then and only then we are in fellowship with God. Any sin, no matter how small, inadvertent, or unrecognized, completely severs us from fellowship with God until we repent of that sin. I just don't see that in Scripture.

What I do see is that continual resistance to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, consciously engaging in sinful activity in spite of God, is a demonstration that relationship with Him is unimportant to us. "If we are faithless, He will remain faithful" (2 Timothy 2:13).

When Christ died on the cross for the sin of all of those that God gave him they are heaven bound. When we are disobedient to God's commands, we sin, and are separated from God's fellowship until we repent, but that sin, in no way separates us from our eternal destination,

 

[luigi]

John 6:39 says all that Christ died for will live in heaven, without the lose of even one. Christ's sacrifice was not offered to man for man's acceptance, but it was offered to God for God acceptance, which he did. He died for those who WERE children of God, not, who would want to be children of God.

Yes, the Lord died for those who were and are the children of God. And with God being love, the Lord died for the children of love.
They who believe in love, in loving their neighbor, are whom the Lord died for.
These who believe in love (God) and loving their neighbor, are they whom the Lord will not loose one of.

 

[Dino246]

Sorry Dino, I am not sure what you are asking for. I thought you wanted scriptures pertaining to my comments. Let me put it this way; God sent the nation of Israel to war and told them to not bring back any spoils of the war. Akin brought back some things and buried them in the floor of his tent. God was angry and withdrew his favor from Israel until sin in the camp was removed. God will not have fellowship when sin is active. God says, if we deny him, he will deny us. This idea runs through out the scriptures with God telling his disobedient children to repent, confess, believe etc. If this response is not intelligent enough for you, then I guess I am not up to your level of intelligence.

Hey FGC...
What I'm looking for is speific scriptural support for your specific statements, not general support for the idea that sin has consequences. You stated, "Every time the regenerated child of God yields to his fleshly desires and sins, he is dead (separated from fellowship with God) until he repents and God welcomes him back in his fellowship." Please support that specific statement with Scripture--especially the part about "separated from fellowship with God"--and please explain how the verses you give support it. Consequences for sin are not the same thing as separation from fellowship.