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maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#101
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
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#101
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
I propose changing the cult's name from Calvinism to Bizarroology.
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I'm not a Calvinist, and I don't agree with all of their views, however...
when I took the time to really study their views,
and the Biblical basis for their views,
and the depth of their reliance upon the scripture,
I came to have a great respect and appreciation for my Calvinist brothers.

I'm not at all sure they share the same respect and appreciation for me -
but although mutual respect may be necessary for a relationship,
mutual respect isn't necessary for me to have peace with God.

I have a deep respect for my Calvinist brothers.
I don't find it necessary to agree with someone on every point in order to appreciate them.

God Bless,
Max

...
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#102
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
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#102
trofimus said:
I have not seen any true representation of calvinism in your posts. Just mocking, pure speculations, your personal thinking how it is, misunderstanding of the basics etc.

I recommend you to learn about calvinism (from calvinistic sources), if you have so much desire to "debunk" it.
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You would think that, wouldn't you. It's just like talking to Mormons. Oh no, we don't teach that . . . you are just misinformed. Yep, it says it right in their literature--but I'm misinformed.

Oh, and John Calvin burned a guy at the stake for disagreeing with him about the Trinity.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#103
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
113
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#103
maxwel said:
I'm not a Calvinist, and I don't agree with all of their views, however...
when I took the time to really study their views,
and the Biblical basis for their views,
and the depth of their reliance upon the scripture,
I came to have a great respect and appreciation for my Calvinist brothers.

I'm not at all sure they share the same respect and appreciation for me -
but although mutual respect may be necessary for a relationship,
mutual respect isn't necessary for me to have peace with God.

I have a deep respect for my Calvinist brothers.
I don't find it necessary to agree with someone on every point in order to appreciate them.

God Bless,
Max

...
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Satan agrees with them also, anything that confuses simple childlike faith in a Jesus that saved to the uttermost. It they can make it difficult and make people question whether they are even called at all will have Satan's endorsement any time of the day.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#104
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#104
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
You would think that, wouldn't you. It's just like talking to Mormons. Oh no, we don't teach that . . . you are just misinformed. Yep, it says it right in their literature--but I'm misinformed.
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YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Calvinism is like a moving target. They always cry misrepresentation when their arguments are destroyed. Or "you just dont understand.". "have you read this book, or that book.?"

I think the most famous calvinist debater is James White, he got absolutely obliterated in his debate against Michael Brown.
I remember James White doing the usual "dialogue" with people of false religions and giving them compliments. Disgusting, his errand boys all act the same. Its a weird cult. Pseudo-intellectual would probably be the best word to describe it.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#105
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
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#105
Hevosmies said:
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Calvinism is like a moving target. They always cry misrepresentation when their arguments are destroyed. Or "you just dont understand.". "have you read this book, or that book.?"
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When you've been neck deep in a cult, it isn't hard to spot another. They are all strange bedfellows and tools of satanic confusion.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#106
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#106
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
You would think that, wouldn't you. It's just like talking to Mormons. Oh no, we don't teach that . . . you are just misinformed. Yep, it says it right in their literature--but I'm misinformed.
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I am waiting for the quotation from the literature of calvinists.
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Oh, and John Calvin burned a guy at the stake for disagreeing with him about the Trinity.
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Lol, no, your another misunderstanding and wrong facts.

And btw, calvinism is not based on character and perfection of Jean Calvin, but on 5 points of calvinism, explained by canons of Dort.

Then, continental calvinists created Second Helvetic Confession and Heidelberg catechism, Anglo-American calvinists use westminster confession of faith, but I am not familiar with this one.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#107
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#107
Hevosmies said:
I think the most famous calvinist debater is James White, he got absolutely obliterated in his debate against Michael Brown.
I remember James White doing the usual "dialogue" with people of false religions and giving them compliments. Disgusting, his errand boys all act the same. Its a weird cult. Pseudo-intellectual would probably be the best word to describe it.
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Ad hominem attacks cannot work.

Ben Hin is arminian, so... arminianism is wrong? It cannot work this way.

There are many, many people in both camps and you cannot judge the basic ideas by some individuals or by who won some debate of thousands debates. You should always go to basic, founding documents and official creeds to know what it teaches.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#108
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#108
I also think that James White lost a debate with Bart Ehrman on historicity of the NT, that does not mean that I must believe the NT is not historical. Calvinists can also lost some debates with better oponents, its normal.
 
T

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
#110
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
#110
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#111
#111
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#112
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
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#112
TheDivineWatermark said:
A supposed quote by Calvin:

"Scripture clearly proves that God by his eternal and immutable counsel determined once for all those whom it was his pleasure one day to admit to salvation, and those whom, on the other hand, it was his pleasure to doom to destruction."

-- John Calvin: Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 7, Sec. 2210
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Let's see . . .

Calvin says that it will be God's pleasure to doom to destruction.
God says . . .

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11).

Gosh, who to believer, who to believe . . . wow! that's tough.
 
BaptistBibleBeliever

BaptistBibleBeliever

Well-known member
#114
Sep 9, 2018
2,244
1,032
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#114
trofimus said:
I also think that James White lost a debate with Bart Ehrman on historicity of the NT, that does not mean that I must believe the NT is not historical. Calvinists can also lost some debates with better oponents, its normal.
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Can you answer this . . .

if a man is not elect can he still be saved?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#116
#116
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Can you answer this . . .

if a man is not elect can he still be saved?
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From the Calvinst perspective everyone deserves hell so that some are selected is God's right to do so and we cannot question His ways.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#117
#117
pottersclay said:
In the garden God clothed Adam and Eve. Not by them asking but by his grace and mercy. Finding them hidding and ashamed.
In retrospect he made provision for all man kind.
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Beautiful and true!! Amen!!
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#118
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#118
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
Can you answer this . . .

if a man is not elect can he still be saved?
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"If the Ethiopian shall change his skin, or the leopardess her spots, then shall ye be able to do good, having learnt evil."
Jer 13:23

"No one is able to come to Me unless the Father, the one having sent Me, draws him"
J 6:44

If by election you mean the effective work of God in the person, than no, you cannot be saved without it. Its unbiblical to think that way. We need God´s grace.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#120
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#120
BaptistBibleBeliever said:
So is a man responsible for something that is impossible for him to do?
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I have asked this question too. Dont hold your breath for a straight up consistent answer: YES.
That is what calvinism teaches.

MAN CANNOT/ WILL NOT DRAW NIGH TO GOD UNLESS GOD GRANTS HIM REGENERATION FAITH REPENTANCE WHATEVER, AND IS BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

That is consistent calvinism. Notice how this system is very similar to what happened to my brethren back in Egypt? They were told to MAKE BRICK but given NO STRAW and still were required to do the same work.
A.k.a being held responsible for something that was impossible for them to do!
 
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