Do you pray for the lost? Then welcome to Calvinism

[NayborBear]

Do you therefore believe that predestination has anything to do with salvation? A prerequisite?

Like I stated in my reply? I'll try to explain to you what being "predestined" means. I also see by your reply to me, that I have failed, or your mind has already been made up concerning the Father's capability in His foreknowing, let alone predestinating, in these days! Yet, you probably believe that God USED to! Because, after all, the cases where He has, are "recorded in the book!"

But? Having reconciled yourselves to "the famine of the end times?" In the manner of "Gimme that 'ol Time RELIGION...It's Good ENOUGH, for me!" As is the case in all "cessessionists/God in a box" idolators? "If God, or Christ, AIN'T a speakin' to ya IN the WRITTEN Word?" "It AIN'T God, or Christ that's a speakin'!" Which has the "hard core INQUISTORS" of y'all runnin' around looking for the next victim, you can burn at the stake!

To answer your question though: Inasmuch as Salvation has to do with the 2nd death? YES!

Revelation 20
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests OF God, AND, of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (I dare you to note the DISTINCTIONS! ) The answer to your question? AGAIN? YES! Is what I "tried" to explain to you yesterday, concerning compliance.

Romans 10
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

>>>To answer your question though: Inasmuch as Salvation has to do with the 2nd death? YES! <<<

That's not what I asked. I asked if you think predestination is a prerequisite to salvation.

But you are right about one thing, yes, I have made my mind up.

I should have asked you if foreknowledge comes after predestination or before.

but based on the answer you did give, you were flying without a compass.

The only one in this discussion that I am aware of burning people at the stake was John Calvin. He didn't like some guys answer when it came to the Trinity.

 

[NayborBear]

>>>To answer your question though: Inasmuch as Salvation has to do with the 2nd death? YES! <<<

That's not what I asked. I asked if you think predestination is a prerequisite to salvation.

But you are right about one thing, yes, I have made my mind up.

I should have asked you if foreknowledge comes after predestination or before.

but based on the answer you did give, you were flying without a compass.

The only one in this discussion that I am aware of burning people at the stake was John Calvin. He didn't like some guys answer when it came to the Trinity.

I tried!

Ezekiel 13
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

Mocking and scoffing are all you are capable of? You are refusing to see? Shall I remind you of the words Christ spoke to the Disciple John?

Luke 9
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: For HE that is NOT AGAINST us is FOR US!

It truly saddens my heart you feel the way you do!

Yet? As long as you are still "sucking air?" There remains a "chance/choice!" After that? It's Game OVER!

"Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." - Uh oh! Methinks your "Freudian Slip" is showing, little girl!

 

[selfdissolving]

And since the Gospel is to be preached to EVERY CREATURE God expects every creature to hear the Gospel and then obey the Gospel. Which effectively destroys *unconditional election*.

But not everyone who hears it does obey. Most people reject it. People rejected it when Jesus himself preached it.

God is powerless to the will of the sinner?
Do you know what you just affirmed in that first statement? Do you really?

Yes I affirmed the false belief that Arminians hold to. That God cannot save someone if that person chooses to reject him.

 

[Lillywolf]

Yes I affirmed the false belief that Arminians hold to. That God cannot save someone if that person chooses to reject him.

Where in the Bible does God state his grace falls on those who reject it?
Arminians hold to prevenient grace .
John 12:48
"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day."

 

[Lillywolf]

And since the Gospel is to be preached to EVERY CREATURE God expects every creature to hear the Gospel and then obey the Gospel. Which effectively destroys *unconditional election*.

That errant claim cannot be let go go unaddressed.

That's not at all in scripture.
No one comes to Jesus except the Father draws, calls, them. Every person can hear the Gospel. But as we know, not every person on earth is a Christian. Because God calls whom he will to his Son.
That's scripture. Not particular to Calvinism. It is scripture that lived long before John Calvin used it to create a legacy for himself.

Isaiah 46

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

 

[Jackson123]

That errant claim cannot be let go go unaddressed.

That's not at all in scripture.
No one comes to Jesus except the Father draws, calls, them. Every person can hear the Gospel. But as we know, not every person on earth is a Christian. Because God calls whom he will to his Son.
That's scripture. Not particular to Calvinism. It is scripture that lived long before John Calvin used it to create a legacy for himself.

Isaiah 46

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Ephesians 1:4
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

1. Why the Father draw a and not b. There must be a reason.

The Bible say God is love. Loving God want to draw every body to heaven.

And up to people If he willing to be draw or not.

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This verse tell that God love the world, whosoever believe in Him Will be save

This mean God Will draw every body who believe in Him(Jesus)


2. Even he chose us before the foundation of the earth

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Before the foundation of the earth, God predestine Adam and eve and their ofspring reside in the pretty Garden of Eden, not to hell.

So every body predestine to go to heaven before the foundation of the earth. But some of us do not obey Him.

Say I am a millionaire. I plan to have 2 children. I make 2 palace for both of them before their born.

My first child refuse to accept the palace, he want to live some where in his choice.

My second child accept my plan and live in the palace. I say to my second child, this palace I prepare for you before you born. Is that mean I am not prepare a palace for my first son?

God prepare a huge palace enough for the whole human. An the bible say Hi love the world. If not enough space or room, He can make bigger room. He prepare It before the foundation of the earth.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Calvinists claim that the 'world' in John 3:16 means the elect . . . in other places it means the 'world.' God figure.

 

[MattforJesus]

The Bible does say God wants all people to repent, and come to the truth, and be saved, and commands all people everywhere to repent.

So why would God command all people to repent if it does not matter for the ones God did not choose.

Also Jesus lights every person born in this world, so all people have a chance to see the light of Jesus, and the Spirit and bride say anybody can have that salvation.

So if people are saying that not everybody can have that salvation for God did not choose some without their choice does that mean they are not part of the bride.

God's kingdom is love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth.

Many are called, but few are chosen, and that is the deal we have a choice in our salvation, but nobody would of gotten to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life, for no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit, and no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them, so God chose us we did not choose Him, but when we get to the door of truth we make the choice to walk through that door for God's kingdom is love.

The Bible says they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and it points out their sins, and that they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, for they love God, but they love the ways of the world more to enjoy the things of the world like the world enjoys those things, and then believe they are right with God.

The Bible says to withdraw yourselves from people like that for their hypocrisy is giving offense to the ministry, and causing people to say Christianity is hypocritical.

But we may sin after we receive the Spirit but those with the proper attitude will repent and keep moving forward knowing they have to get rid of the sins, but those that do not know the truth will hold unto sin and think they are right with God.

The Bible says awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some do not have the knowledge of God.

Which if they say they cannot abstain from sin then they are holding unto sin for they say they cannot abstain from sin, and if they cannot abstain from sin then how is their record ever clean.

But then the Bible says if they sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, hold unto sin, then there is no more sacrifice for their sin, so the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and when they hold unto sin they are considered a sinner, and their soul is the position of death, until they get rid of the sins and realize sin does affect their relationship with God.

The truth is if God chose who would be saved, and not saved, without their choice, then God would of not created the earth, but created them directly in glorified bodies to dwell with Him, for the result would be the same for they would have no action on their part towards salvation.

If they have no action on their part towards salvation then there would be no purpose for the earth, and God would of created them to dwell with Him without the earth, and cut out the suffering and pain that goes along with it, and no person would perish.

Concerning God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice.

If you program your computer to say I love you does the computer really love you, and is it true love, and if you program your computer to say I hate you will you get mad at your computer and smash it.

So why would God program some to be saved when it would not be true love, and program some not to be saved and then be mad at them.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world, although they were future events.

So when the Bible says that God predestined the saints to salvation it does not mean He chose who would be saved, and not saved, in the beginning without their choice, but that God already had the plan of salvation to give mankind before He laid down the foundation of the world, so it is the same as if the saints already have that salvation in the beginning, but that salvation is to whoever wants it when the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, then why would God be calling people that cannot be chosen.

No person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, but Jesus said not everyone that says Lord will be able to dwell in heaven, so they must of been called but not chosen, and Jesus said they did not do the will of the Father, and that they were workers of iniquity.

 

[Lillywolf]

1. Why the Father draw a and not b. There must be a reason.

The Bible say God is love. Loving God want to draw every body to heaven.

And up to people If he willing to be draw or not.

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This verse tell that God love the world, whosoever believe in Him Will be save

This mean God Will draw every body who believe in Him(Jesus)


2. Even he chose us before the foundation of the earth

Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Before the foundation of the earth, God predestine Adam and eve and their ofspring reside in the pretty Garden of Eden, not to hell.

So every body predestine to go to heaven before the foundation of the earth. But some of us do not obey Him.

Say I am a millionaire. I plan to have 2 children. I make 2 palace for both of them before their born.

My first child refuse to accept the palace, he want to live some where in his choice.

My second child accept my plan and live in the palace. I say to my second child, this palace I prepare for you before you born. Is that mean I am not prepare a palace for my first son?

God prepare a huge palace enough for the whole human. An the bible say Hi love the world. If not enough space or room, He can make bigger room. He prepare It before the foundation of the earth.

There is a term used frequently to describe those who are in Christ. "The Elect" or, "The Elect of God". This term arrives from a reformed doctrine known as "unconditional grace", and also "unconditional election".

There's a Wikipedia entry that fully details and with a Bibliography, this faith set. Though it needs some cleaning up to say the least. I reference that however so as to copy from that source the relevant scriptures that do support unconditional grace/election.

• John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
• John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
• Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
• Romans 9:15–16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
• Romans 9:22–24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
• Ephesians 1:4–5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
• Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
• Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"
• 1 Thessalonians 1:4–5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."
• 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
• 2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," (Source) *Note please that at the end of the Wiki list of scriptures there are a few that sustain the contrary belief set that is known as "Conditional grace/election". I didn't add those so as to avoid confusion on the issue being discussed.

Basically it all comes down to God's sovereignty. He foreknows all things being he is Omniscient. (all knowing). And he is the source of all that is. The Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of things. Even though he as holy spirit creator has no beginning and no end.

The scriptures that refer even in the old testament to God's predestination of all things for his glory and by his will and that say he does as he pleases, predate the new testament Calvinist TULIP doctrine. John Calvin, the father of Calvinism, simply took from the scriptures what they said and put forth a doctrine for his name sake.
We can set Calvin aside and simply read the scriptures themselves. They speak of God's predeterminism of humankind's destiny. After all, God planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden that made the entire paradigm of damnation and salvation begin.
And how would God's adversary, that which he allows to be "lord of this world" , Satan, have entered the garden so as to tempt Eve to eat of that tree's fruit had God not allowed it to be so?
We learned from reading the trials of poor Job that Satan operates under God's will. God let Satan go after Job so as to test Job's faith for God. God knew Job would not falter and Satan was allowed to act as he saw fit in his pursuit of hoping to get Job to deny or lose faith in God. However, Satan was precluded from killing Job, by God's decree.

Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Whomever believes. That's talking to us the reader. That's not saying we are in control of God's plan. We are in fact only saved by God's grace.

 

[Locutus]

Usually just my lost keys - gotta get a key shelf or rack or sumfin.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The Bible does say God wants all people to repent, and come to the truth, and be saved, and commands all people everywhere to repent.

So why would God command all people to repent if it does not matter for the ones God did not choose.

It's the difference between light vs. darkness, sanity vs. insanity.

Perhaps this is what Paul was talking about when he wrote, "much learning doth make thee mad."

I imagine reading the Institutes from the murderer would drive any one nuts!

 

[Jackson123]

There is a term used frequently to describe those who are in Christ. "The Elect" or, "The Elect of God". This term arrives from a reformed doctrine known as "unconditional grace", and also "unconditional election".

There's a Wikipedia entry that fully details and with a Bibliography, this faith set. Though it needs some cleaning up to say the least. I reference that however so as to copy from that source the relevant scriptures that do support unconditional grace/election.

• John 15:16: "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
• John 1:12,13: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
• Acts 13:48: "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
• Romans 9:15–16: "For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
• Romans 9:22–24: "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"
• Ephesians 1:4–5: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
• Ephesians 1:11: "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
• Philippians 1:29: "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;"
• 1 Thessalonians 1:4–5: "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake."
• 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:"
• 2 Timothy 1:9: "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," (Source) *Note please that at the end of the Wiki list of scriptures there are a few that sustain the contrary belief set that is known as "Conditional grace/election". I didn't add those so as to avoid confusion on the issue being discussed.

Basically it all comes down to God's sovereignty. He foreknows all things being he is Omniscient. (all knowing). And he is the source of all that is. The Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end of things. Even though he as holy spirit creator has no beginning and no end.

The scriptures that refer even in the old testament to God's predestination of all things for his glory and by his will and that say he does as he pleases, predate the new testament Calvinist TULIP doctrine. John Calvin, the father of Calvinism, simply took from the scriptures what they said and put forth a doctrine for his name sake.
We can set Calvin aside and simply read the scriptures themselves. They speak of God's predeterminism of humankind's destiny. After all, God planted the forbidden fruit tree in the garden that made the entire paradigm of damnation and salvation begin.
And how would God's adversary, that which he allows to be "lord of this world" , Satan, have entered the garden so as to tempt Eve to eat of that tree's fruit had God not allowed it to be so?
We learned from reading the trials of poor Job that Satan operates under God's will. God let Satan go after Job so as to test Job's faith for God. God knew Job would not falter and Satan was allowed to act as he saw fit in his pursuit of hoping to get Job to deny or lose faith in God. However, Satan was precluded from killing Job, by God's decree.

Whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Whomever believes. That's talking to us the reader. That's not saying we are in control of God's plan. We are in fact only saved by God's grace.

God word is consistent not contradict each other.

God say, that He love the world and do not want any body go to hell.

Yes God chose or elect, but the bible tell us the reason. The reason is whosoever believe in Him (Jesus) Will be save or elect.

 

[Jackson123]

The Bible does say God wants all people to repent, and come to the truth, and be saved, and commands all people everywhere to repent.

So why would God command all people to repent if it does not matter for the ones God did not choose.

Also Jesus lights every person born in this world, so all people have a chance to see the light of Jesus, and the Spirit and bride say anybody can have that salvation.

So if people are saying that not everybody can have that salvation for God did not choose some without their choice does that mean they are not part of the bride.

God's kingdom is love, and He is not evil to condemn people that have no choice but to reject truth.

Many are called, but few are chosen, and that is the deal we have a choice in our salvation, but nobody would of gotten to the door of truth unless God intervened in their life, for no person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit, and no person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them, so God chose us we did not choose Him, but when we get to the door of truth we make the choice to walk through that door for God's kingdom is love.

The Bible says they have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and it points out their sins, and that they are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, for they love God, but they love the ways of the world more to enjoy the things of the world like the world enjoys those things, and then believe they are right with God.

The Bible says to withdraw yourselves from people like that for their hypocrisy is giving offense to the ministry, and causing people to say Christianity is hypocritical.

But we may sin after we receive the Spirit but those with the proper attitude will repent and keep moving forward knowing they have to get rid of the sins, but those that do not know the truth will hold unto sin and think they are right with God.

The Bible says awake to righteousness, and sin not, but some do not have the knowledge of God.

Which if they say they cannot abstain from sin then they are holding unto sin for they say they cannot abstain from sin, and if they cannot abstain from sin then how is their record ever clean.

But then the Bible says if they sin wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, hold unto sin, then there is no more sacrifice for their sin, so the blood of Christ cannot wash it away, and when they hold unto sin they are considered a sinner, and their soul is the position of death, until they get rid of the sins and realize sin does affect their relationship with God.

The truth is if God chose who would be saved, and not saved, without their choice, then God would of not created the earth, but created them directly in glorified bodies to dwell with Him, for the result would be the same for they would have no action on their part towards salvation.

If they have no action on their part towards salvation then there would be no purpose for the earth, and God would of created them to dwell with Him without the earth, and cut out the suffering and pain that goes along with it, and no person would perish.

Concerning God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice.

If you program your computer to say I love you does the computer really love you, and is it true love, and if you program your computer to say I hate you will you get mad at your computer and smash it.

So why would God program some to be saved when it would not be true love, and program some not to be saved and then be mad at them.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world, although they were future events.

So when the Bible says that God predestined the saints to salvation it does not mean He chose who would be saved, and not saved, in the beginning without their choice, but that God already had the plan of salvation to give mankind before He laid down the foundation of the world, so it is the same as if the saints already have that salvation in the beginning, but that salvation is to whoever wants it when the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but we know it did not happen until 4000 years later.

Many are called, but few are chosen, so God does the calling and choosing on earth, and if God chooses who will be saved, and not saved, then why would God be calling people that cannot be chosen.

No person says Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost, but Jesus said not everyone that says Lord will be able to dwell in heaven, so they must of been called but not chosen, and Jesus said they did not do the will of the Father, and that they were workers of iniquity.

So, do you agree with Calvin or not?

 

[preacher4truth]

God word is consistent not contradict each other.

Of course, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you interpret it correctly. Which unfortunately you don't do, consistently.

God say, that He love the world and do not want any body go to hell.

He never said all that...

Yes God chose or elect,

Yep, before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1, based on nothing they've done, Romans 9.

but the bible tell us the reason.

Sure does, for his own glory and purpose, Romans 9, Ephesians 1 &c. But not according to the falsities you give next:

The reason is whosoever believe in Him (Jesus) Will be save or elect.

Nope, people don't elect themselves, God saves those whom he elected.

 

[dcontroversal]

Calvinists claim that the 'world' in John 3:16 means the elect . . . in other places it means the 'world.' God figure.

Yeah the word is KOSMOS.....but hey.............you know how it is......

 

[Lillywolf]

God word is consistent not contradict each other.

God say, that He love the world and do not want any body go to hell.

Yes God chose or elect, but the bible tell us the reason. The reason is whosoever believe in Him (Jesus) Will be save or elect.

That's a good interpretation of the elect and the reason for that title.

This is a great article if you have the time. Corporate Election
Here is a brief excerpt about the author of that articleaniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater. His Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament . (more reading)

 

[Jackson123]

Of course, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you interpret it correctly. Which unfortunately you don't do, consistently.



He never said all that...



Yep, before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1, based on nothing they've done, Romans 9.



Sure does, for his own glory and purpose, Romans 9, Ephesians 1 &c. But not according to the falsities you give next:



Nope, people don't elect themselves, God saves those whom he elected.

Of course, but that has nothing to do with whether or not you interpret it correctly. Which unfortunately you don't do, consistently.



He never said all that...



Yep, before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1, based on nothing they've done, Romans 9.



Sure does, for his own glory and purpose, Romans 9, Ephesians 1 &c. But not according to the falsities you give next:



Nope, people don't elect themselves, God saves those whom he elected.

God want all people save

1 Timothy 2
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Bible say there is reason for election

John 3:16


John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.



This verse say the reason is whosoever believe.

 

[Jackson123]

That's a good interpretation of the elect and the reason for that title.

This is a great article if you have the time. Corporate Election
Here is a brief excerpt about the author of that articleaniel B. Wallace has taught Greek and New Testament courses on a graduate school level since 1979. He has a Ph.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary, and is currently professor of New Testament Studies at his alma mater. His Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics: An Exegetical Syntax of the New Testament . (more reading)

Thanks, but I am not full understand what he talking about.

He talking about corporate election and individual election. That i do not understand.

 

[Lillywolf]

Thanks, but I am not full understand what he talking about.

He talking about corporate election and individual election. That i do not understand.

Maybe this will help. Soteriology 101 The Corporate View of Election