Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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It is sad that these peoples say they have faith in Jesus, trust Him for eternal life, do not believe in works for salvation. but then add that they must keep trusting, keep the faith, without understanding that those two statements contradict each other.
It must be one or the other. It cannot be both.
It must be one or the other. It cannot be both.
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True biblical salvation is Colossians 1: 27. Christ in you, the hope of glory. It is to be fully sanctified and perfected at the resurrection.
We partake of that salvation in this life by faith in Christ as He works in our life but it is not complete until the resurrection.
So, in one sense, salvation is complete sanctification. It is being saved completely from your sins and perfected by Christ Himself when he raises you at the resurrection with your incorruptible and sinless body.
We partake of that salvation in this life by faith in Christ as He works in our life but it is not complete until the resurrection.
So, in one sense, salvation is complete sanctification. It is being saved completely from your sins and perfected by Christ Himself when he raises you at the resurrection with your incorruptible and sinless body.
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Your faith is not entirely on Him when you state that I CLING.
You have moved your eternal salvation out of the hands of Jesus placed it in your hands.
You may not understand that, but that is what you are doing.
You need to understand that there is nothing, let me repeat, nothing you can do to keep yourself saved.
"ALL YOUR WORKS ARE FILTHY RAGS", and your clinging is filthy works.
You have moved your eternal salvation out of the hands of Jesus placed it in your hands.
You may not understand that, but that is what you are doing.
You need to understand that there is nothing, let me repeat, nothing you can do to keep yourself saved.
"ALL YOUR WORKS ARE FILTHY RAGS", and your clinging is filthy works.
Now I know why Ralph~ went off about "Calvinism" in this thread when it was never mentioned. Old Ralph~ used to go after it in the past with me and remembered this, which is why he went off about it again.
lolzzz...
And he's beating the same old tired drum of losing salvation and having to keep on trying real hard to make sure he believes every nano second of the day. If these false teachers would only learn to discern descriptive texts, then they'd chill out and really believe the Gospel.
lolzzz...
And he's beating the same old tired drum of losing salvation and having to keep on trying real hard to make sure he believes every nano second of the day. If these false teachers would only learn to discern descriptive texts, then they'd chill out and really believe the Gospel.
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It's not us holding on to God but God holding onto us that saves.
Isaiah 41:13 ESV /
For I, the Lord your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, “Fear not, I am the one who helps you.”
John 10:29 ESV /
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 10:28 ESV /
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Psalm 139:10 ESV /
Even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.
Isaiah 41:13 ESV /
For I, the Lord your God, hold your right hand; it is I who say to you, “Fear not, I am the one who helps you.”
John 10:29 ESV /
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 10:28 ESV /
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Psalm 139:10 ESV /
Even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me.
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Colossians 1
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
*****
If you don't continue you don't lose your salvation you get chastened by your Heavenly Father.
How many earthly father tosses a kid out of the house for making a single mistake?
Why then I God made to be meaner than earthly fathers?
21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
*****
If you don't continue you don't lose your salvation you get chastened by your Heavenly Father.
How many earthly father tosses a kid out of the house for making a single mistake?
Why then I God made to be meaner than earthly fathers?
A
1 Corinthians 15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
*"""""
Paul says it's NOT HIM WHO LABORS OR WORKS BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WITHIN HIM
IF GOD BEGINS A GOOD WORK WITHIN YOU THEN HE WILL FINISH IT. ITS NOT IN VAIN.
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by [a]Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have [b]fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
*"""""
Paul says it's NOT HIM WHO LABORS OR WORKS BUT THE GRACE OF GOD WITHIN HIM
IF GOD BEGINS A GOOD WORK WITHIN YOU THEN HE WILL FINISH IT. ITS NOT IN VAIN.
Ephesians 2:8
Anti-ES proponents conflate those who's behaviors prove they're not Christian regardless of their claim, with Christians whom the scripture identifies as being such because they had nothing to do with making that so in the first place. God knows them, God calls them, and no one comes to Christ unless that happens. And God's gifts and calling are irrevocable.Romans 11:29. Because those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Those who do never were saved and never knew God.
Anti-ES proponents point is one that implies human will is the foundation point for salvation. And that's how we can lose it and that then tells them ES isn't true.
What they don't get is, the only part we played in our salvation is heeding the call it was intended for us, this eternal irrevocable calling and gift of God. Those who sin like the devil when claiming Christ aren't that. They evidence they can lose their salvation to the anti-ES crowd, who uses that as proof ES is false, because they were never saved in the first place.
Anti-ES proponents conflate those who's behaviors prove they're not Christian regardless of their claim, with Christians whom the scripture identifies as being such because they had nothing to do with making that so in the first place. God knows them, God calls them, and no one comes to Christ unless that happens. And God's gifts and calling are irrevocable.Romans 11:29. Because those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. Those who do never were saved and never knew God.
Anti-ES proponents point is one that implies human will is the foundation point for salvation. And that's how we can lose it and that then tells them ES isn't true.
What they don't get is, the only part we played in our salvation is heeding the call it was intended for us, this eternal irrevocable calling and gift of God. Those who sin like the devil when claiming Christ aren't that. They evidence they can lose their salvation to the anti-ES crowd, who uses that as proof ES is false, because they were never saved in the first place.
E
So hebrews and john disagree and contradict each other.
If this is the case, burn your bible. It is useless.
Heb 10 is about returning to law. If you say your believe in chris,t and that is your trust, then sin willfully by returning to law. There is no more sacrifice for sin.
A person who has true faith would never return to law. That is the point.
If this is the case, burn your bible. It is useless.
Heb 10 is about returning to law. If you say your believe in chris,t and that is your trust, then sin willfully by returning to law. There is no more sacrifice for sin.
A person who has true faith would never return to law. That is the point.
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^ ...and speaking of "the law," there's this:
Romans 7:1-4 -
7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by [means of] the body of Christ; that ye should be married [joined] to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:1-4 -
7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by [means of] the body of Christ; that ye should be married [joined] to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
^ V.4 - G2289 - ethanatōthēte - "have been put to death" [aorist indicative passive]
Here we have it.
Salvation by works. By polluting the word "faith" with your false definition you hope to prove your point.
I will let the scriptures you quoted be your accuser.
"... whoever believes in Him..." - John 3:16
"... believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life..." - John 5: 24
"... he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” - John 6: 47
Eternal life as a present possession. Saved in the here and now.
This refutes your salvation by works claims.
Salvation by works. By polluting the word "faith" with your false definition you hope to prove your point.
I will let the scriptures you quoted be your accuser.
"... whoever believes in Him..." - John 3:16
"... believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life..." - John 5: 24
"... he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” - John 6: 47
Eternal life as a present possession. Saved in the here and now.
This refutes your salvation by works claims.
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Someone has obviously misrepresented the eternal security of the believer to you.
Every person must repent (turn away from their sins and idols) and every person must genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Therefore everyone must be born again in order to enter and see the Kingdom of God. And this only happens when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life.
The eternal security of the believer is grounded in (1) the grace of God, (2) the finished work of Christ and (3) the regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Every person must repent (turn away from their sins and idols) and every person must genuinely believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receive Him as Lord and Savior. Therefore everyone must be born again in order to enter and see the Kingdom of God. And this only happens when they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and the gift of eternal life.
The eternal security of the believer is grounded in (1) the grace of God, (2) the finished work of Christ and (3) the regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
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