Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine

[dcontroversal]

What do you make of this?

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

This verse in context states clearly that it is impossible to lose salvation and be re-saved <---in a nut shell......the letter was written to Hebrew believers who wanted to go back under the inferior way...under the Old System they had to come once a year and offer a sacrifice for sins.....the above he is telling them that under the NEW there is no more sacrifice for sin for ever, no more earthly system, earthly priesthood etc......every time they sacrifice they put Jesus to public shame and obviously were teaching a O.T./ N.T. blended religion<---He is saying it is impossible to fall away, need to be re-saved and re-sacrifice Christ.....

and think about it....if the above is what some make it out to be..the loss of salvation because of sin...and then impossible to be renewed..who is saved?

WHERE sin ABOUNDS<--GRACE abounds the more....

 

[UnderGrace]

What do you make of this?

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

A person cannot be born again more than once.

Under the law there was the need for ongoing sacrifice......in the new covenant if someone should fall away (sin) they cannot recrucify Jesus.

One sacrifice for all sins.

Christ's ONE sacrifice is sufficient to cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness. We are born of the spirit ONE time, not multiple times.

This scripture is showing how impossible it is to be saved, then unsaved, then saved again.... because that ONE sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us the first time!! So to suggest our salvation can be "undone" would be putting Christ to open shame, suggesting that His sacrifice was not sufficient!!! So in other words, "crucifying him afresh" each time by suggesting that He was not able to save us completely the first time, that He must be crucified a second and third time.

It's impossible to renew them again (because we were already renewed) so how can it possibly happen again, because salvation happens ONE time. It cannot happen a second time. Christ was crucified ONCE and it was sufficient.

This is confirming the security of the believer, not suggesting that salvation is undone in any way!

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away,[b] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

 

[Sketch]

It looks like I need to re-examine much of what I thought about OSAS, @dcontroversal and @UnderGrace.

I saw "OSAS" as a derogatory term not even having ownership in those who believe in eternal security.
And that those labeled as OSAS did not believe a person could not lose their salvation.
Wrong on both counts, apparently.

I don't seem to fit in either camp. Somewhere in between. More OSAS than not, I suppose.

 

[dcontroversal]

It looks like I need to re-examine much of what I thought about OSAS, @dcontroversal and @UnderGrace.

I saw "OSAS" as a derogatory term not even having ownership in those who believe in eternal security.
And that those labeled as OSAS did not believe a person could not lose their salvation.
Wrong on both counts, apparently.

I don't seem to fit in either camp. Somewhere in between. More OSAS than not, I suppose.

AMEN......keep searching and for sure...context, verb tense, verbiage and did I say CONTEXT

 

[preacher4truth]

Where is the contradiction?

Right here:

In the case of Apostacy, God may choose to revoke it.
We cannot undo what only God can do in the first place.

There is no Scripture that supports your theory, and the above 2 statements are contradictory.

 

[preacher4truth]

I must be lost then.

You are saying we cannot lose salvation, then saying we can (God may revoke it.) You're contradicting yourself, and the revocation thing is unbiblical.

 

[preacher4truth]

I saw "OSAS" as a derogatory term

It is a term of derogation, which is why the OP used it so he could slam others right off the bat. He set out to slander, and then attempted to prove that OSAS preaches license to sin, by conflating what Free Grace Theology teaches with this Biblical doctrine.

I'd call the FGT version of OSAS "Hyper-OSAS." It is in error, that is for certain.

 

[UnderGrace]

It looks like I need to re-examine much of what I thought about OSAS, @dcontroversal and @UnderGrace.

I saw "OSAS" as a derogatory term not even having ownership in those who believe in eternal security.
And that those labeled as OSAS did not believe a person could not lose their salvation.
Wrong on both counts, apparently.

I don't seem to fit in either camp. Somewhere in between. More OSAS than not, I suppose.

Spend some time on it and search in earnest I know it will be revealed to you.

There is only one way to be in the new covenant "saved" ...... and saved means saved.

 

[Sketch]

You are saying we cannot lose salvation, then saying we can (God may revoke it.) You're contradicting yourself, and the revocation thing is unbiblical.

Just to be clear, I'm saying there is nothing WE can do to lose our salvation.
But in the case of apostacy, God may revoke it.

Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

[preacher4truth]

Just to be clear, I'm saying there is nothing WE can do to lose our salvation.
But in the case of apostacy, God may revoke it.

I know, which is completely contradictory.

Who's fault is it if the person apostatizes? Since it is their fault then there would be something they did to lose it. Therefore it would be something WE do to have it revoked, which is to lose it.

But you're not purely biblical here, you're hypothesizing and therefore are in error. Why not just stick with Scripture and that salvation cannot be lost?

 

[rlm68]

Newsflash: You don't.





What exactly did the blood of Christ do and how are sins dealt with? Also, what role does the High Priest serve? These are questions that once you find the answer to you come to realize the total forgiveness of sin that you have through the shed blood of Christ, and His role as our High Priest/Mediator.

You'll find out that the forgiveness of sin (or rather, remission of sin) happens through bloodshed (His sacrifice) and Jesus as our High Priest intercedes on our behalf forever, being a mediator between man and God. He is the propitiation for our sins, the appeasement. You'll also find out that Jesus doesn't do daily sacrifices to deal with daily sin like the priests of old, but having an eternal priesthood did one sacrifice for sin for all time.

Consider how the sins of new converts are dealt with. Through the blood of Christ, the shedding of His blood. His eternally sufficient sacrifice for sin. Now think, if sin is dealt with through bloodshed, how is your sin dealt with? Your answer is found in Christ, and His role as our High Priest.

Read the book of Hebrews to find all of this out, and more.

We ALL sin!!

So, when you sin, do you ask our heavenly Father to forgive you?

If so, why when you claim there is no need for it.

And yes, the Blood of Yeshua cleanses our sins and purifies us to be in the presence of Almighty God. But we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven.

David in Psalms asked God to FORGIVE THE SINS that he was unaware of that he had committed...SURELY...we also have sins we are unaware of (specifically)...we have example after example of people asking God for forgiveness throughout the scriptures...So, why would we be able to just sin and not ask to be forgiven?

The term past, present, and future sins is vindicated on asking for forgiveness.

Are you claiming since God knows everything, He should just know to forgive your future sins because you claim His GRACE?

 

[rlm68]

Should it? (nope)
Eternal security is not a license to sin.

The term "OSAS" is derogatory. And therefore an offensive label.
The slanderous label was created by those who claim salvation is by works.

Those who believe in eternal security do not go by that label.
They believe that God, and only God, can nullify salvation on the grounds of apostacy.
This is in God's hands. There is NOTHING we can do to undo what ONLY God can do.

The "OSAS" hysteria is just that.
A divisive false accusation against your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Are you sure you want any part of that?

Apostasy is what we commit, not what God commits.

So, are you clarifying that apostasy is real?

If so, isn't that proof you can loose your salvation because you can chose to walk away from God?

And you are correct, the term OSAS is an idea that was not well thought out pertaining to what OSAS literally means.

 

[rlm68]

No it doesn't mean you don't have to ask for forgiveness.

It means God won't toss you out of His family but will lovingly show you a better way when you repent.

This is proof then we should/must ask for forgiveness of our sins, in my opinion.

 

[rlm68]

Wrong.......do not conflate SONSHIP with FELLOWSHIP.......<----ONE is an irrevocable gift based upon grace/faith......the other is subject to walking in the light as he is in the light......

.....

And yet, THE ONLY BIBLE some people will ever read is how we who claim to be believers actually act and condone ourselves. But, if we sin in front of unbelievers, surely we ARE NOT AN EXAMPLE of 1. God, 2. a follower of God.

Why would I want to accept Christ when I can continue doing as I have been if once I am saved I can basically keep sinning?
Of course, you will respond by saying, you cannot keep sinning or you try to sin less once you are saved.
But I am saying, we are the only example of WHO GOD is to literally billions of people out there. When they see us (and know we believe/follow God) they feel they are looking at how God acts. And if you think you can sin, especially before an unbeliever, you might be the only link to God that person will ever know. You don't think God is displeased by how many sinners we keep from being saved by our own actions/interpretations of scripture/causing sinners to be turned off to God?

There is NO CONFLATION!!

If you claim to follow God, you are God's example to others. So, if you are not walking in the LIGHT, you are definitely dwelling in the darkness!!

 

[dcontroversal]

And yet, THE ONLY BIBLE some people will ever read is how we who claim to be believers actually act and condone ourselves. But, if we sin in front of unbelievers, surely we ARE NOT AN EXAMPLE of 1. God, 2. a follower of God.

Why would I want to accept Christ when I can continue doing as I have been if once I am saved I can basically keep sinning?
Of course, you will respond by saying, you cannot keep sinning or you try to sin less once you are saved.
But I am saying, we are the only example of WHO GOD is to literally billions of people out there. When they see us (and know we believe/follow God) they feel they are looking at how God acts. And if you think you can sin, especially before an unbeliever, you might be the only link to God that person will ever know. You don't think God is displeased by how many sinners we keep from being saved by our own actions/interpretations of scripture/causing sinners to be turned off to God?

There is NO CONFLATION!!

If you claim to follow God, you are God's example to others. So, if you are not walking in the LIGHT, you are definitely dwelling in the darkness!!

Wrong.......do not conflate SONSHIP with FELLOWSHIP.......<----ONE is an irrevocable gift based upon grace/faith......the other is subject to walking in the light as he is in the light......

 

[Argueless]

Wrong.......do not conflate SONSHIP with FELLOWSHIP.......<----ONE is an irrevocable gift based upon grace/faith......the other is subject to walking in the light as he is in the light......

My son is a son by BIRTH....NOTHING will ever be able to change that fact, however, SOMETIMES my KID fires me up by not doing what I tell him to do...that temporarily breaks our fellowship, but he remains my SON BY BIRTH...

You guys conflate so many issues into a religious quagmire soup of error.....

Do you LOVE God?

Do you LOVE Jesus Christ our LORD?

If you do, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS. john 14:15

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to ENTER LIFE, obey the commandments.” Matthew 19:16-17

Are you TEACHING obedience to God?

Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:18-20

Children of God
And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming. If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him. 1 John 2:28-29

The Children of the Devil
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, YOU WOULD LOVE ME, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”John 8:42-47

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did1 John 2:3-6

Are you IN Jesus and WALKING as He did?

And this is love: that we WALK in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Those who do not obey God's commandments do not love God and are therefore not children of God but enemies of Him.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

 

[rlm68]

Wrong.......do not conflate SONSHIP with FELLOWSHIP.......<----ONE is an irrevocable gift based upon grace/faith......the other is subject to walking in the light as he is in the light......

God is MY FATHER, I am God's son!!

Our Father who art in heaven... = God is our FATHER!!

I am able to go BOLDLY to the throne of MY FATHER!!

You go right ahead and just be a free loader by GRACE (what a lousy excuse)(like an alcoholic saying, it was just only 1 sip), I am a child of God and therefore am ACCOUNTABLE!!

 

[Sketch]

It is a term of derogation, which is why the OP used it so he could slam others right off the bat. He set out to slander, and then attempted to prove that OSAS preaches license to sin, by conflating what Free Grace Theology teaches with this Biblical doctrine.

I'd call the FGT version of OSAS "Hyper-OSAS." It is in error, that is for certain.

Thanks.
Sorry, too many acronyms. What does FGT stand for?

 

[preacher4truth]

Thanks.
Sorry, too many acronyms. What does FGT stand for?

Free Grace Theology.

 

[Sketch]

I know, which is completely contradictory.

Who's fault is it if the person apostatizes? Since it is their fault then there would be something they did to lose it. Therefore it would be something WE do to have it revoked, which is to lose it.

But you're not purely biblical here, you're hypothesizing and therefore are in error. Why not just stick with Scripture and that salvation cannot be lost?

Not every hypothesis is wrong. They point to something that might be right.

Are you agreeing that salvation can be lost due to apostacy?

I think Hebrews 6:4-6 says that God has the final say.
I agree that no one (but God) can take away our salvation. Nothing we can do to lose it.
And this only under the worst circumstance. And it's God's call, not ours. In some cases it is
impossible for those who have fallen away to be brought back to repentance. Thus lost.