Does scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles?
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Scripture tells us that through faith in Christ we are accepted in Israel. That is Jewish. In fact, true Israel is made up of people with faith.
Scripture speaks of Israel in two ways. One is the ethnic Israel made up of believers, the other is national Israel that is a physical country. In this thread we are speaking of ethnic Israel.
At no time, according to scripture, has God given salvation for law obedience. Moses was told that there were blessings for obedience but there is no scripture saying God gives salvation for obedience. God is holy, man is not. Man cannot make himself holy, it is impossible, always was.
The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.
Paul was accused in court of speaking of a God who changed and it was proven that Paul didn't do that.
Scripture speaks of Israel in two ways. One is the ethnic Israel made up of believers, the other is national Israel that is a physical country. In this thread we are speaking of ethnic Israel.
At no time, according to scripture, has God given salvation for law obedience. Moses was told that there were blessings for obedience but there is no scripture saying God gives salvation for obedience. God is holy, man is not. Man cannot make himself holy, it is impossible, always was.
The idea that there is one God with one way before Christ and another God with different ways after Christ is false. Christ said so. The NT is filled with quotes from the OT given as proof of what the NT says. What the apostles said was only accepted when it agreed with the OT scriptures. God is eternal, the same always.
Paul was accused in court of speaking of a God who changed and it was proven that Paul didn't do that.
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I did say it.........AND, from reading your follow up comments, I was spot on with my assessment........
As far as Scripture goes.......I'll do as you did...........
Matthew 1:1........................thru................ Jude 1:25
Under the First Covenant, The Law, Gods chosen people were a Nation. The Nation of Israel
Under the New Covenant, Grace, Gods chosen people are the Church.
The majority of the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the Church. Dietary and Ceremonial to be specific. The Moral Laws still do. They being the 10 Commandments............as well, the Law of Faith that Jesus established also apply to the Church.
Just read the Scripture I suggested you read............and, with understanding.
As far as Scripture goes.......I'll do as you did...........
Matthew 1:1........................thru................ Jude 1:25
Under the First Covenant, The Law, Gods chosen people were a Nation. The Nation of Israel
Under the New Covenant, Grace, Gods chosen people are the Church.
The majority of the Mosaic Laws do not apply to the Church. Dietary and Ceremonial to be specific. The Moral Laws still do. They being the 10 Commandments............as well, the Law of Faith that Jesus established also apply to the Church.
Just read the Scripture I suggested you read............and, with understanding.
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Romans 2:28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is thatcircumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
That's all you really need to know...........
And, the Church IS the New Jerusalem.......if one is not a part of the New Jerusalem, they are not a child of God.
29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
That's all you really need to know...........
And, the Church IS the New Jerusalem.......if one is not a part of the New Jerusalem, they are not a child of God.
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I would agree but I would say the outward Jew in respect to the flesh as that seen no longer a special blessing that they saw no profit in . The promised time of reformation has come when the outward Jews were used as a parable for the time previous.(Kings) No longer is the flesh of a Jew used as shadows and types. The genealogy of generation of Christ was made complete when the Son of man did come. Making useless a record keeping of genealogy that went past the time of reformation.
SOME Scripture given to Israel apply to saved gentiles.
The problem most people have is, we speak of OT and NT, and that causes some to believe there are only two covenants in the Bible. Well many of the covenants in the OT are still going and valid to gentile believers.
Heresy you say? Nay, hear me out. The covenant God made with NOAH is still in effect, and applies to everyone alive today, want proof? Check out a rainbow. Noah was given permission to eat all animals, yet later on Moses was forbidden from eating this and that animal, both are in the OT, is that a contradiction????? NO! Its a different covenant. The Mosaic covenant is different from the covenant of Noah, despite both being in what we call the O.T.!
Its important to know this.
Then we have in Leviticus many rules and regulations about ritual purity, guidelines to Levitical priests, but THESE scriptures given to Israel do NOT apply today. Why? Because Hebrews tells us that there has been a change in priesthood, therefore of necessity also a change in the law! We went from Levites to Melchizedek priesthood. Christ is the high-priest now.
Do the TenCommandments apply to us? Well, the NT lists ALL OF THEM to Christian gentile believers, EXCEPT for one, the sabbath day.
Basically, its not as hard to discern and divide WHAT scriptures given to Israel apply to us.
When Jesus says to His disciples to do EVERYTHING the pharisees ask, because they are in the seat of Moses, should we do that? NO. Should we sacrifice turtledoves? NO! But should we love our neighbor, and love God? YES!
I hope everyone gets my point, its easy to discern. If you read a scripture about Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, believe the book, dont do like commentators of yesterday and say "Here we have the Gospel church surrounded by papists" or something ridicilous to force it to apply to us today!
The problem most people have is, we speak of OT and NT, and that causes some to believe there are only two covenants in the Bible. Well many of the covenants in the OT are still going and valid to gentile believers.
Heresy you say? Nay, hear me out. The covenant God made with NOAH is still in effect, and applies to everyone alive today, want proof? Check out a rainbow. Noah was given permission to eat all animals, yet later on Moses was forbidden from eating this and that animal, both are in the OT, is that a contradiction????? NO! Its a different covenant. The Mosaic covenant is different from the covenant of Noah, despite both being in what we call the O.T.!
Its important to know this.
Then we have in Leviticus many rules and regulations about ritual purity, guidelines to Levitical priests, but THESE scriptures given to Israel do NOT apply today. Why? Because Hebrews tells us that there has been a change in priesthood, therefore of necessity also a change in the law! We went from Levites to Melchizedek priesthood. Christ is the high-priest now.
Do the TenCommandments apply to us? Well, the NT lists ALL OF THEM to Christian gentile believers, EXCEPT for one, the sabbath day.
Basically, its not as hard to discern and divide WHAT scriptures given to Israel apply to us.
When Jesus says to His disciples to do EVERYTHING the pharisees ask, because they are in the seat of Moses, should we do that? NO. Should we sacrifice turtledoves? NO! But should we love our neighbor, and love God? YES!
I hope everyone gets my point, its easy to discern. If you read a scripture about Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, believe the book, dont do like commentators of yesterday and say "Here we have the Gospel church surrounded by papists" or something ridicilous to force it to apply to us today!
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please provide that EXACT scripture or even something close
your less than stellar understanding of the testaments provides a mixed bag of your personal interpretation that is not ground for anyone to stand on and less, to comprehend the actual wonderful plan of God for our salvation
that's interesting. but who is the recipient of the above quote? I certainly said nothing remotely indicating anything to engender such a response. are you just winging it here?
who said God has changed? God is not the problem here. what is the problem, is your revolving door understanding of the testaments and the mashup presentation of law, Jews and Gentiles and salvation
you cannot nail down the NT by applying the OT on top of it like some kind of veneer
the OT points to the new and is not and never was, meant as a caveat the way you present it
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By the way, to everyone using the "no jew nor greek in Christ Jesus" verse to prove this idea that Israel is done for, never to return is not only discounting prophecy but is also MISAPPLYING the verse.
The verse also says in Christ there is no MALE or FEMALE. Now does that mean that there is no more gender? Seriously? No distinction whatsoever? Of course not, and I doubt anyone is dumb enough to believe that (then again its 2018 and gender confusion is getting more common).
The same thing applies to no jew nor greek. People dont stop being Jews after they get saved, or from being gentiles after they get saved. I am still a Jew, whether im saved or not. If you are african, you will remain african, saved or unsaved.
This isnt just some idea that I have: Paul, AFTER being saved said that he is the hebrew of hebrews, from the TRIBE of Benjamin.
This same idea continues on in the book of James, written to the TRIBES of Israel. And again in the book of Revelation where the 144 000 are mentioned from each TRIBE (excluding Dan, interesting study there, I believe antichrist comes from that tribe, in the OT tribe of Dan is often connected to wickedness and idolatry)
The verse also says in Christ there is no MALE or FEMALE. Now does that mean that there is no more gender? Seriously? No distinction whatsoever? Of course not, and I doubt anyone is dumb enough to believe that (then again its 2018 and gender confusion is getting more common).
The same thing applies to no jew nor greek. People dont stop being Jews after they get saved, or from being gentiles after they get saved. I am still a Jew, whether im saved or not. If you are african, you will remain african, saved or unsaved.
This isnt just some idea that I have: Paul, AFTER being saved said that he is the hebrew of hebrews, from the TRIBE of Benjamin.
This same idea continues on in the book of James, written to the TRIBES of Israel. And again in the book of Revelation where the 144 000 are mentioned from each TRIBE (excluding Dan, interesting study there, I believe antichrist comes from that tribe, in the OT tribe of Dan is often connected to wickedness and idolatry)
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yuh know, I have seen enough in this forum to actually think that would be the understanding of certain people
it simply means we are equal before God in Christ Jesus and no, Israel is not forgotten by God but that is also the stand of a good many believers in this forum..and the world it seems
it simply means we are equal before God in Christ Jesus and no, Israel is not forgotten by God but that is also the stand of a good many believers in this forum..and the world it seems
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Have you studied 'covenant". It isn't something that is cancelled, God takes the covenants He gives seriously. If you mean the covenant given through Moses, please read the covenant. It isn't a covenant given to tell us how to please God, it is given to us for our blessing. We are saved through grace, and the law has nothing to do with it. The law is how we can be blessed apart from the blessing of salvation.
We are not under the Law of Moses in that we have died to the law through Christ and we accept the spirit of God. God's spirit does not disobey the law, it obeys it in spirit and truth. It does not murder, does not lie, doesn't gossip maliciously etc. but it is not a legalistic obedience but obedience through the spirit.
We do not obey law or are under law for salvation for it is through God's grace we receive salvation. Old and New testaments tell us so. But we are under law for blessings.
We are not under the Law of Moses in that we have died to the law through Christ and we accept the spirit of God. God's spirit does not disobey the law, it obeys it in spirit and truth. It does not murder, does not lie, doesn't gossip maliciously etc. but it is not a legalistic obedience but obedience through the spirit.
We do not obey law or are under law for salvation for it is through God's grace we receive salvation. Old and New testaments tell us so. But we are under law for blessings.
Of course the scriptures given to Israel apply to saved Gentiles, for all the word of God was given to the Jews, which they had the advantage above the Gentiles for the oracles of God was given to them, and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.
The Bible says when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and belong to the commonwealth of Israel, for Israel is the Church, that is why the new earth is called the New Jerusalem, and the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are written in the New Jerusalem.
It is all about Israel for they are God's chosen people all the time, but because of their rejection of truth they do not have the kingdom on earth, but it will be restored to them in the future.
The Bible says when a Gentile is saved they are a Jew inward, and belong to the commonwealth of Israel, for Israel is the Church, that is why the new earth is called the New Jerusalem, and the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb, are written in the New Jerusalem.
It is all about Israel for they are God's chosen people all the time, but because of their rejection of truth they do not have the kingdom on earth, but it will be restored to them in the future.
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Either we are under the Law or we are not. Paul made that clear to the Galatians. "Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?" Further, as he explained to the Ephesians, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Jesus Christ"... not in the law!
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This corresponds to 2 Timothy 3:16 which tells us that ALL SCRIPTURE (Genesis to Revelation) is profitable for Christians.
This question should be reworded to say "Does the Old Covenant found in the Old Testament (OT) apply to Christians?" And the answer is "NO" (other than for a few commandments mentioned in Acts 15).
The whole of the Hebrew Tanakh (our Old Testament) was given to Israel. But it was not exclusively for Israel. At the same time the OT is foundational for the NT. And the whole Bible is for all Christians.
This question should be reworded to say "Does the Old Covenant found in the Old Testament (OT) apply to Christians?" And the answer is "NO" (other than for a few commandments mentioned in Acts 15).
The whole of the Hebrew Tanakh (our Old Testament) was given to Israel. But it was not exclusively for Israel. At the same time the OT is foundational for the NT. And the whole Bible is for all Christians.