Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

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Dec 28, 2016
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Take my challenge and go to one of the top level protestant denominations and see if you hear the gospel message. Presbyterian USA is the top level Presbyterian denomination. Go to one of those churches and prove me wrong then report back here about what you heard. Prove your assertion. I have talked to several that heard the gospel message only after going to one of the sub denominations. Prove me wrong with evidence not conjecture!!
Everyone knows, or should know that PCUSA is apostate. Your example fails the test to prove your huge swath of condemnation.
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Everyone knows, or should know that PCUSA is apostate. Your example fails the test to prove your huge swath of condemnation.
Like I stated prove me wrong by going to the top level denominations and see if they preach the gospel message. For the last 31 years of working I was in customer support and traveled all over the US and world, my mother-in-law gave me a humorous plaque that said "When My Ship Comes in I Will l be at the Airport". If I was home for the week I was not doing any work. I would many times be on site for weeks. Therefore I attended many different churches. In South Africa I went with a customer to a Catholic church and was shocked that the service was conducted much like Baptist churches here. Gone was all of the formal method and vestments the priests here use. They plainly preached the gospel message. In the US I sometimes went to a Presbyterian USA church and never heard the gospel message thus confirming Gary Norths assertions. I investiged and found that book factual. Started investigating the top level denomination churches and found the same thing.

Been there, done that, found it accurate.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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Either you are the weirdest person I know, or you are just out to cause disruptions here.

AND

Apparently, YOU do not know the definition of your own SN dude

HERE............Two different sources

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=uQROV62eyYMOWxik5iCG72KfwaA-

During an upper endoscopy, an endoscope is easily passed through the mouth and throat and into the esophagus, allowing the doctor to view the esophagus, stomach, and upper part of the small intestine.






https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=n7i44heQC9zoG64t.VCkuXojruc-

endoscopy (looking inside) is used in medicine to look inside the body.[1] The endoscopy procedure uses an endoscope to examine the interior of a hollow organ or cavity of the body. Unlike many other medical imaging techniques, endoscopes are inserted directly into the organ.

There are many types of endoscopes. Depending on the site in the body and type of procedure an endoscopy may be performed either by a doctor or a surgeon. A patient may be fully conscious or anaesthetised during the procedure. Most often the term endoscopy is used to refer to an examination of the upper part of the gastrointestinal tract, known as an esophagogastroduodenoscopy.[2]

For non-medical use, similar instruments are called borescopes.




I was simply commenting on the oddity of your choice for SN's.......NOT ACCUSING you of anydarnthing

geesssshhhhh

as for your attitude


viola.png
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Like I stated prove me wrong by going to the top level denominations and see if they preach the gospel message. For the last 31 years of working I was in customer support and traveled all over the US and world, my mother-in-law gave me a humorous plaque that said "When My Ship Comes in I Will l be at the Airport". If I was home for the week I was not doing any work. I would many times be on site for weeks. Therefore I attended many different churches. In South Africa I went with a customer to a Catholic church and was shocked that the service was conducted much like Baptist churches here. Gone was all of the formal method and vestments the priests here use. They plainly preached the gospel message. In the US I sometimes went to a Presbyterian USA church and never heard the gospel message thus confirming Gary Norths assertions. I investiged and found that book factual. Started investigating the top level denomination churches and found the same thing.

Been there, done that, found it accurate.
With all due respect, way too many "I's" up there sir...
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
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Either you are the weirdest person I know, or you are just out to cause disruptions here.

AND

Apparently, YOU do not know the definition of your own SN dude

HERE............Two different sources

https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=uQROV62eyYMOWxik5iCG72KfwaA-

During an upper endoscopy, an endoscope is easily passed through the mouth and throat and into the esophagus, allowing the doctor to view the esophagus, stomach, and upper part of the small intestine.






https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...ndoscopy/RK=2/RS=n7i44heQC9zoG64t.VCkuXojruc-

endoscopy (looking inside) is used in medicine to look inside the body.[1] The endoscopy procedure uses an endoscope to examine the interior of a hollow organ or cavity of the body. Unlike many other medical imaging techniques, endoscopes are inserted directly into the organ.

There are many types of endoscopes. Depending on the site in the body and type of procedure an endoscopy may be performed either by a doctor or a surgeon. A patient may be fully conscious or anaesthetised during the procedure. Most often the term endoscopy is used to refer to an examination of the upper part of the gastrointestinal tract, known as an esophagogastroduodenoscopy.[2]

For non-medical use, similar instruments are called borescopes.




I was simply commenting on the oddity of your choice for SN's.......NOT ACCUSING you of anydarnthing

geesssshhhhh

as for your attitude


View attachment 190215
I don't care what that definition states. I had a proctascope examination done to find what was causing me pain. I had polups which the surgeon removed. Here is a medical site definition of a proctoscope. It includes the definition of endoscopy and endoscope.

Proctoscopy is a common medical procedure in which an instrument called a proctoscope (also known as a rectoscope, although the latter may be a bit longer) is used to examine the anal cavity, rectum, or sigmoid colon.
What is Endoscopic Surgery?
Endoscopic surgery uses scopes going through small incisions or natural body openings in order to diagnose and treat disease. Another popular term is minimally invasive surgery (MIS), which emphasizes that diagnosis and treatments can be done with reduced body cavity invasion.

Terminology
Some terms refer to the body region being examined or treated:

Laparoscopy (laparoscopic surgery)
Arthroscopy (arthroscopic surgery)
Thoracoscopy (thoracoscopic surgery)
Rhinoscopy
Otoscopy
Cystoscopy
Endosurgery
Minimal access surgery
Less invasive surgery
Endoscopic microsurgery
Video assisted surgery
Videoendoscopic surgery
Telescopic surgery
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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With all due respect, way too many "I's" up there sir...
When you give evidence of what you have seen and experienced the word I has to be used. I investigated and now when I state what I saw and heard you nitpick it for using the first person for what I saw and heard. Like I stated prove me wrong by going to a Presbyterian USA church and report back!!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I have had a proctoscope used for surgery and also an endoscope used in stomach and small intestine surgery done. They removed the first part of the small intestine from having food pass through it. That cured my of being diabetic. I had heard of that possibility and found it happened to me. Therefore I had proctoscope surgery as well as endoscope surgery. I get very tired of all the misinformation being going on about those procedures and being called misinformed about them when I have had first person procedures performed on me by both technologies.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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With all due respect that's a local church problem sir, not a conspiracy of denomination and money takeover.
To the contrary it is a denomination problem. The Presbyterian PCA church made itself immune by making the pastor only have a small amount of money available to them for use as a mercy use. Larger sums of money are distributed by the mercy committee and never give the money to the person. Instead they buy what the person needs. Those in need are grateful but those out for money get upset, rant obscenities and stomp off. As a member of the committee I saw this in action.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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When you give evidence of what you have seen and experienced the word I has to be used. I investigated and now when I state what I saw and heard you nitpick it for using the first person for what I saw and heard. Like I stated prove me wrong by going to a Presbyterian USA church and report back!!
Sir, going to a PCUSA church and witnessing apostasy therein will not prove your swath of accusations on all major denominations. You've talked yourself into a corner. Maybe you should post this in the conspiracy forum?

Did you accept the correction that laparoscopy v endoscopy? You're incorrect there as well. :whistle:
 
Dec 28, 2016
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To the contrary it is a denomination problem. The Presbyterian PCA church made itself immune by making the pastor only have a small amount of money available to them for use as a mercy use. Larger sums of money are distributed by the mercy committee and never give the money to the person. Instead they buy what the person needs. Those in need are grateful but those out for money get upset, rant obscenities and stomp off. As a member of the committee I saw this in action.
Endoscopy you've done this to this thread:



 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Endoscopy you've done this to this thread:



I was disagreeing with those who state the opposite of what I saw, heard, and experienced as an elder and deacon on the committees I was part of. That person said it was a church problem when the denomination I was part of made itself immune with the financial restrictions placed on the local churches!!

Take that whip to your ignorance!!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I was disagreeing with those who state the opposite of what I saw, heard, and experienced as a deacon on the committees I was part of. That person said it was a church problem when the denomination I was part of made itself immune with the financial restrictions placed on the local churches!!

Take that whip to your ignorance!!


 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Why aren't you using Acts 2:38 like a good Campbellite?
Because I am Reformed/Calvinist in my beliefs. Don't even know what a Campbelite is!!! I am thus in total disagreement with Arminians but since neither is covered by the creeds that makes it an agree to disagree not heretical.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Because I am Reformed/Calvinist in my beliefs. Don't even know what a Campbelite is!!!
They believe you need to be baptized in water to be saved. You inferred that you believe that . . . oh, are you talking about being sprinkled as a baby?
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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Stupid 5 minute rule
I view Arminians as my brothers and sisters in Christ even though we disagree on the Quinquarticular Controversy of Calvinism vs Arminianism.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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They believe you need to be baptized in water to be saved. You inferred that you believe that . . . oh, are you talking about being sprinkled as a baby?
I never mentioned the method of baptism. I quoted the great commission. There are 3 modes and I don't get involved in that controversy. If you live in a desert climate it becomes difficult and expensive to use Immersion. Also I avoid the issue that if you are not baptised before dying that you are not saved. That is why some denominations have clothes for a new convert to wear when accepting Christ in a church service so they can be baptised immediately. That precludes them getting accidentally killed before being baptised. Thus in their view the persons salvation is at risk. These are issues that are agree to disagree since they are not covered by the creeds.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Okay, if God through foreknowledge knew that the majority of the world would be lost what need has He to 'pick' (elect) the ones that He already knows will be saved? He doesn't need to do anything other than watch them come to Christ.

The whole concept of election has to do with what a believer will do or be after He comes to Christ.

But see, Calvinists take it beyond reason when they start trying to add stuff to somehow make their view seem more plausible. It is ridiculous therefore to suggest that God gives them the faith to believe, that first they are sealed by the Holy Spirit AND THEN do they believe.

The whole error of Calvinism has to do with a faulty view of foreknowledge even to the point where they redefine the word to mean a decree. It is simply that God already knows what will happen. He observes the course of human history - but takes no active role is forcing a man to do this or that in relation to salvation, though He certainly does do so in the case of those He chooses for service.

I have no problem believing that God prepares a man for his Christian life through experiences - even when he is still lost. He takes some through cults, for example, to give them a deeper love and respect for His Word.
Adam became spiritually dead (separated from God) when God put him out of the garden. Because of Adam's sin, all mankind when they are born a natural birth into this world they are born totally depraved and spiritually separated from God. 1 Cor 2:14 explains the condition of all mankind when they are born into this world, unable to discern anything of a spiritual nature. We stay in this condition until God regenerates his elect from this condition (Eph 2, especially verse 5). After we have been given the Holy Spirit in regeneration we are able to start to discern spiritual things. Those who have not been regenerated will never be able to discern anything of a spiritual nature, such as repenting of a spiritual law that he cannot understand and thinks it is foolishness. He will never seek a spiritual God or feel any guilt for his depravity. He has no spiritual faith because he does not have the Holy Spirit, which faith is a fruit of the Spirit. No Spirit = no spiritual faith. Man's spiritual metamorphosis follows these steps: step 1; total depravity step 2: regeneration step 3: indwelling of the Holy Spirit step 4: becoming able to discern spiritual things step 5: conscience being pricked, repenting, accepting Jesus, believing the gospel, faith in Jesus's work on the cross, witnessing to other regenerated people, doing good works, praise and honor G etc.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Adam became spiritually dead (separated from God) when God put him out of the garden. Nope, it happened the instant he bit of the forbidden fruit.

Because of Adam's sin, all mankind when they are born a natural birth into this world they are born totally depraved and spiritually separated from God. 1/2 right . . . they are spiritually separated, or dead == totally depraved, not so much - they have the capacity of conscience as we see in Romans.

1 Cor 2:14 explains the condition of all mankind when they are born into this world, unable to discern anything of a spiritual nature. No - see Romans 1:18ff

We stay in this condition until God regenerates his elect from this condition (Eph 2, especially verse 5). WRONG - but how many times do I need to 'splain that. It is in the OP of Biblical Examination of Calvinism.

After we have been given the Holy Spirit in regeneration we are able to start to discern spiritual things. TRUE, but not in the way you believe.

Those who have not been regenerated will never be able to discern anything of a spiritual nature, such as repenting of a spiritual law that he cannot understand and thinks it is foolishness. NOPE - wrong answer.

He will never seek a spiritual God or feel any guilt for his depravity. He has no spiritual faith because he does not have the Holy Spirit, which faith is a fruit of the Spirit. No Spirit = no spiritual faith. Man's spiritual metamorphosis follows these steps: step 1; total depravity step 2: regeneration step 3: indwelling of the Holy Spirit step 4: becoming able to discern spiritual things step 5: conscience being pricked, repenting, accepting Jesus, believing the gospel, faith in Jesus's work on the cross, witnessing to other regenerated people, doing good works, praise and honor G etc. TOTALLY FALSE. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. A bum in a gutter can pick up a Gospel tract and be saved.

CLASS OVER
 

Endoscopy

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Oct 13, 2017
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