Predestination vs Freewill - Possible Solution to argument

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#41
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
#41
trofimus said:
Your view is about predestination of paths, but Bible talks about predestination of people, like:

"And all, who were destined for eternal life, believed". (Notice, it doesn't say PREdestined.)

You read it like "And all, who chose to believe, were destined for eternal life", which is in the opposite order.

Also, predestination does not make us robots.
Click to expand...


Acts 13:48 Amplified Bible (AMP)
48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying [praising and giving thanks for] the word of the Lord; and all those who had been appointed (designated, ordained) to eternal life [by God] believed [in Jesus as the Christ and their Savior].

Notice, it doesn't say PREappointed, PREdesignated or PREordained or even PREdestined. I think it's because this scripture is referring to those that were "called" and then "chosen."

Look in Romans 8:28-30:

Romans 8:28-30 King James Version (KJV)

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom (The Word) he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (This verse is about The Word becoming the image of His Son - Yeshua/Jesus, the firstborn of many brethren.)

30 Moreover whom (Yeshua/Jesus) he did predestinate, them (whosoever will) he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (This verse is about us being called to partake of Christ and being chosen to become the many brethren that would be born in Christ. By being "in Christ" we become "predestined" because He was and is "predestined." Yeshua/Jesus Christ is the ONLY one that was predestined before the foundation of the world because He is the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. The rest of us are "called" and "chosen.")

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know we all want to think we were predestined, but only Christ was predestined. We need to make a choice - life or death.
 
Lafftur

Lafftur

Senior Member
#42
Apr 18, 2017
6,895
3,634
113
#42
Romans and Ephesians are the only scriptures I can find in regards to predestination. As I pour over them, to me, it is Yeshua/Jesus Christ that is the ONLY ONE predestined and only those IN CHRIST or IN HIM that are predestined.

So, here's a thought.....

Were we somehow IN HIM/IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world? Hmmmmm....... :unsure:

God's ways are soooooo much higher than ours.......we cannot know them, except He tell us. :love:

Ephesians 1:1-14 Amplified Bible (AMP)
The Blessings of Redemption
1 Paul, an apostle (special messenger, personally chosen representative) of Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed), by the will of God [that is, by His purpose and choice],

To the [a]saints (God’s people) [b]who are at Ephesus and are faithful and loyal and steadfast in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace [inner calm and spiritual well-being] from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 [c]Blessed and worthy of praise be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ, 4 just as [in His love] He chose us in Christ [actually selected us for Himself as His own] before the foundation of the world, so that we would be holy [that is, consecrated, set apart for Him, purpose-driven] and blameless in His sight. In love 5 He predestined and lovingly planned for us to be adopted to Himself as [His own] children through Jesus Christ, in accordance with the kind intention and good pleasure of His will— 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor, which He so freely bestowed on us in the Beloved [His Son, Jesus Christ]. 7 In Him we have redemption [that is, our deliverance and salvation] through His blood, [which paid the penalty for our sin and resulted in] the forgiveness and complete pardon of our sin, in accordance with the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and understanding [with practical insight] 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ, 10 with regard to the fulfillment of the times [that is, the end of history, the climax of the ages]—to bring all things together in Christ, [both] things in the heavens and things on the earth. 11 In Him also we have [d]received an inheritance [a destiny—we were claimed by God as His own], having been predestined (chosen, appointed beforehand) according to the purpose of Him who works everything in agreement with the counsel and design of His will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ [who first put our confidence in Him as our Lord and Savior] would exist to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned andprotected [by God]. 14 The Spirit is the [e]guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#43
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#43
eternally-gratefull said:
And your WRONG

Jesus said it is Gods will that whoever believes. Not whoever he regenerates. Those are YOUR WORDS

You keep saying that this is not true.

So either stand by your position, or continue to prove me right.
Click to expand...
But the natural man before he is regenerated cannot believe in spiritual things, when are you going to admit that is what 1 Cor 2:14 says?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#44
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#44
eternally-gratefull said:
God actually saw who would follow his will and recieve his gift of salvatipn. And CHOSE to save these people before the foundation of the world.

God does according to his will. His will is all who believe will never perish, Live forever. Has eternal life. And will never be lost (john 6)
Click to expand...
Is that what God actually saw according to Ps53:2-3, Who would follow him? When he actually said NONE WOULD SEEK HIM.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#45
#45
ForestGreenCook said:
But the natural man before he is regenerated cannot believe in spiritual things, when are you going to admit that is what 1 Cor 2:14 says?
Click to expand...
But Jesus said whoever believes.

Which means Jesus somehow has to make it so the natural man CAN understand the GOSPEL. (Which he does, according to roman 1 by the natural creation. And according to jesus, the act of the Holy Spirit covicting (teaching) the world..

You can not take one verse and make a doctrine out of it. No matter how hard you try.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#46
#46
ForestGreenCook said:
Is that what God actually saw according to Ps53:2-3, Who would follow him? When he actually said NONE WOULD SEEK HIM.
Click to expand...
Your stuck on a verse dude, The bible is more than one or two verses.

Again, JESUS SAID.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#47
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#47
Galatians and Ephesians-Philippians, ect.-

we, hub and I, urge others to research with an humble heart,
and if this is true for you, then your Heavenly Father will give you a link
to follow which will continually give you yet another 'link' to bring you further
along and along in your most precious journey of Godly
intentions...
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#48
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#48
eternally-gratefull said:
But Jesus said whoever believes.

Which means Jesus somehow has to make it so the natural man CAN understand the GOSPEL. (Which he does, according to roman 1 by the natural creation. And according to jesus, the act of the Holy Spirit covicting (teaching) the world..

You can not take one verse and make a doctrine out of it. No matter how hard you try.
Click to expand...
Whosoever does not mean all mankind unless he has been regenerated. You are the one that ignores certain scriptures. ALL scriptures must harmonize to have the truth of Jesus's doctrine.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#51
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#51
eternally-gratefull said:
But Jesus said whoever believes.

Which means Jesus somehow has to make it so the natural man CAN understand the GOSPEL. (Which he does, according to roman 1 by the natural creation. And according to jesus, the act of the Holy Spirit covicting (teaching) the world..

You can not take one verse and make a doctrine out of it. No matter how hard you try.
Click to expand...
You also cannot ignore any of them either.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#52
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#52
eternally-gratefull said:
But Jesus said whoever believes.

Which means Jesus somehow has to make it so the natural man CAN understand the GOSPEL. (Which he does, according to roman 1 by the natural creation. And according to jesus, the act of the Holy Spirit covicting (teaching) the world..

You can not take one verse and make a doctrine out of it. No matter how hard you try.
Click to expand...
You fail to understand how depraved we are by our fleshly nature. I have explained Romans 1 already and it is not referring to the natural man. Go ask a person who does not believe there is a God what he thinks about a beautiful sunrise.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.