Because of the unbelief of the Jews Gentiles are grafted in.

[jaybird88]

According to the Word that group would be mankind since all men have sinned...……….. I must confess, reading some of your posts I get thye impression you ae not truely caring about dialogue. God bless you always..

here are a few passages on those crowds, and this is just a few of them.

Luke 14:25
Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,

Mark 5:24
And He went off with him; and a large crowd was following Him and pressing in on Him.

Matthew 8:18
Now when Jesus saw a crowd around Him, He gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea.

Mark 10:1
Getting up, He went from there to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan; crowds gathered around Him again, and, according to His custom, He once more began to teach them.

Luke 5:1
Now it happened that while the crowd was pressing around Him and listening to the word of God, He was standing by the lake of Gennesaret;

Matthew 4:25
Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.

Matthew 8:1
When Jesus came down from the mountain, large crowds followed Him.

Matthew 14:13
Now when Jesus heard about John, He withdrew from there in a boat to a secluded place by Himself; and when the people heard of this, they followed Him on foot from the cities.

Matthew 19:2
and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.

Matthew 20:29
As they were leaving Jericho, a large crowd followed Him.

Mark 3:7-8
Jesus withdrew to the sea with His disciples; and a great multitude from Galilee followed; and also from Judea, and from Jerusalem, and from Idumea, and beyond the Jordan, and the vicinity of Tyre and Sidon, a great number of people heard of all that He was doing and came to Him.

 

[Quantrill]

You have a very different view of Jesus then...

So do you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Gospel went to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. (if that is what you are asking)

My point was that the Jews were not and are not grafted in. They are the natural branches. Only the Gentiles are grafted in. Correct?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

True. But Gentiles were grafted into the GOOD OLIVE TREE of believing Israel -- Hebrew Christians (see Romans 9-11). The first church -- the church of Jerusalem -- was strictly Jewish. Then the Samaritans were grafted in. Then the household of Cornelius was grafted in. But all Gentiles were from *the wild tree*.

The disobedience of Israel (in general) to the Gospel gave the Gentiles an opening into the Church, since they believed the Gospel more readily than the Jews. But there were thousands of Hebrew Christians before the Gentiles entered the Church.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41) ALL SAVED JEWS

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. (Acts 4:4) ALL SAVED JEWS

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (Acta 4:32) ALL SAVED JEWS

And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (Acts 5:14) ALL SAVED JEWS

I believe the Abrahamic Covenant is the tree and root, and Israel is the natural branches and Gentiles are grafted in.

Quantrill

 

[Lillywolf]

Oh and another point which completely turns everything about on
it’s head. The Jewish authorities of the day, had to reject Jesus.
If they had accepted Him. He would not have been crucified!

How about that for a turn of events. Unless the Jews had called for Him
to be crucified (remember Herod wanted to let Him go but the crowds
shouted crucify Him). The sacrifice on the cross would not have happened!

Would that mean then that God hardened the temple elders hearts as he did the Pharaoh's in Moses time? So that his will would be done in matters of his son dying on the cross for the worlds sins?

 

[Miri]

Would that mean then that God hardened the temple elders hearts as he did the Pharaoh's in Moses time? So that his will would be done in matters of his son dying on the cross for the worlds sins?

I think in the case of pharaoh, pharaoh hardened his own heart so many times
himself (via Satan) that God eventually said, He would harden it for him. (He rejected
God so many times that in the end, God rejected Him).

In the case of Jesus, I believe it was all Satan.
Satan knew who Jesus really was all along and set out to destroy Him
from the onset. Hence the decision to kill all children under two.
and the attempts to tempt Jesus to commit suicide. So when the chance to
crucify Him came along, I bet Satan was highly delighted.
Only Satan did not know God’s master plan, that Jesus would become
the sacrificial lamb. C S Lewis is master at explaining it in The Lion, The
Witch and The Wardrobe.

 

[jaybird88]

Would that mean then that God hardened the temple elders hearts as he did the Pharaoh's in Moses time? So that his will would be done in matters of his son dying on the cross for the worlds sins?

like miri said i dont think the temple elect would have needed their heart hardened. king herod had cleaned house with the temple leaders. people like Zechariah were out and replaced by those that would be more sympathetic to herod and rome.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

My point was that the Jews were not and are not grafted in. They are the natural branches. Only the Gentiles are grafted in. Correct?

Quantrill

yes Jews were original branch (the cultivated olive)

 

[garee]

True. But Gentiles were grafted into the GOOD OLIVE TREE of believing Israel -- Hebrew Christians (see Romans 9-11). The first church -- the church of Jerusalem -- was strictly Jewish. Then the Samaritans were grafted in. Then the household of Cornelius was grafted in. But all Gentiles were from *the wild tree*.

The disobedience of Israel (in general) to the Gospel gave the Gentiles an opening into the Church, since they believed the Gospel more readily than the Jews. But there were thousands of Hebrew Christians before the Gentiles entered the Church.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41) ALL SAVED JEWS

Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand. (Acts 4:4) ALL SAVED JEWS

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (Acta 4:32) ALL SAVED JEWS

And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women. (Acts 5:14) ALL SAVED JEWS

Yes God defining what a inward born again Jew is no different than a gentile .Her new name Christian.

 

[garee]

Only the Jews would not be grafted. Correct? They are the natural branches.

Quantrill

I think it would have much to do with how the word "graft" is used to understand its spiritual usage in the parables as well as the word "natural" the temporal as a shadow of the eternal . Keeping in the mind our prescription to aid in the parables below.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

The way it seems to be used is men use the literal flesh of a Jew as the standard to be grafted in. Or what the eyes see.

When they themselves they are simply used as shadows as a representative glory of God .His chaste virgin bride the church, that he re-named or gave another name "Christian" a word that denotes residents of the city of Christ as His eternal bride. She is shown coming down (Revelation21)

If we would put the literal flesh of Jew in the Holy place of God as the standard grafted into it would be no different than uses the flesh of a gentile as the standard and graft in a Jew.

Its never about the temporal shadow or veil in that way. We are not grafted into a shadow of the good thing to come but our promised new incorruptible bodies the good thing.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

God puts no difference between a Jew or a gentile. But by the work of His faith working in their hearts to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness) He converts one giving them new Spirit life in the same way as a another. purifying their hearts by His labor of love or called work of faith . You could say the one work of purifying is the grafting, that grafts both Jew and gentile, male and female into the one tree of Life Christ, unseen.

We are grafted in a unseen spiritual incorruptible seed Christ. Absolutely no difference, same clay of the same field

Acts 15:8-10 (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference "between us and them", purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

 

[JaumeJ]

All who reaqd the Word know there was no such thing ass Judaism previous to the advent of our Lor, Jesus, Yeshua.

Most who read teh Word yet do not realize all who believe are Jews by translation of the root of the word, Jew, for all who believe are praisers of Yahweh, GÇod, just as Leah fortold when she named Judah.

We are also the Kingdom of god, Israel, because our capital city is the New Jerusalem. Jerusalem was called previously Urushalaim. The previous name means city of Peace, while God renamed it CVity of Yahwy's (God=) Peace.

Simple, yet made very complicated by men.

Our faith is the Faith of Abraham, as Jesus teaches.

here are a few passages on those crowds, and this is just a few of them.

Luke 14:25
Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,

Mark 5:24
And He went off with him; and a large crowd was following Him and pressing in on Him.

Matthew 8:18
Now when Jesus saw a crowd around Him, He gave orders to depart to the other side of the sea.

Mark 10:1
Getting up, He went from there to the region of Judea and beyond the Jordan; crowds gathered around Him again, and, according to His custom, He once more began to teach them.

Luke 5:1
Now it happened that while the crowd was pressing around Him and listening to the word of God, He was standing by the lake of Gennesaret;

Matthew 4:25
Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.

Matthew 8:1
When Jesus came down from the mountain, large crowds followed Him.

Matthew 14:13
Now when Jesus heard about John, He withdrew from there in a boat to a secluded place by Himself; and when the people heard of this, they followed Him on foot from the cities.

Matthew 19:2
and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.

Matthew 20:29
As they were leaving Jericho, a large crowd followed Him.

Mark 3:7-8
Jesus withdrew to the sea with His disciples; and a great multitude from Galilee followed; and also from Judea, and from Jerusalem, and from Idumea, and beyond the Jordan, and the vicinity of Tyre and Sidon, a great number of people heard of all that He was doing and came to Him.

If all wish to continue separating the faithful from the kING OF THE jEWS, THAT IS TO SAY, THEIR OWN kING, i PITY THE RESULTING FUTURE OF MAY. gOD BLESS ALL WHO BELIEVE jESUS.-
It seems you are not paying attention. I responded to your comment on whho is responsible for the crucifixion of our Lord but you keep hammering on the fact that the Judeans are the ones who first believed Jesus, and I have alreaded responded to you on thast matter.

Again, if you cannot seriously dialogue, just stop, you keep turning into dead end streets.

 

[jaybird88]

All who reaqd the Word know there was no such thing ass Judaism previous to the advent of our Lor, Jesus, Yeshua.

Most who read teh Word yet do not realize all who believe are Jews by translation of the root of the word, Jew, for all who believe are praisers of Yahweh, GÇod, just as Leah fortold when she named Judah.

We are also the Kingdom of god, Israel, because our capital city is the New Jerusalem. Jerusalem was called previously Urushalaim. The previous name means city of Peace, while God renamed it CVity of Yahwy's (God=) Peace.

Simple, yet made very complicated by men.

Our faith is the Faith of Abraham, as Jesus teaches.



If all wish to continue separating the faithful from the kING OF THE jEWS, THAT IS TO SAY, THEIR OWN kING, i PITY THE RESULTING FUTURE OF MAY. gOD BLESS ALL WHO BELIEVE jESUS.-
It seems you are not paying attention. I responded to your comment on whho is responsible for the crucifixion of our Lord but you keep hammering on the fact that the Judeans are the ones who first believed Jesus, and I have alreaded responded to you on thast matter.

Again, if you cannot seriously dialogue, just stop, you keep turning into dead end streets.

i have no idea what your going on about. my post was about the Jews and the fact that many (IMO the majority) accepted Jesus. this is in response to the ideas of "the Jews reject Jesus/ the Jews killed Jesus.
i asked you several times about the crowds that followed Jesus and you keep avoiding/dodging it.

 

[JaumeJ]

i have no idea what your going on about. my post was about the Jews and the fact that many (IMO the majority) accepted Jesus. this is in response to the ideas of "the Jews reject Jesus/ the Jews killed Jesus.
i asked you several times about the crowds that followed Jesus and you keep avoiding/dodging it.

It seems you have not read my responses and also you are confusing the responses of others with mine, not that yu seem to undersand them either from what I have read...….reread my responses and comments on your posts; I have responded to all.

 

[jaybird88]

It seems you have not read my responses and also you are confusing the responses of others with mine, not that yu seem to undersand them either from what I have read...….reread my responses and comments on your posts; I have responded to all.

thats what i was thinking, i think you may have responded to the wrong person to begin with as your comments didnt seem to have anything to do with what i wrote. no worries jm.

 

[Quantrill]

I think it would have much to do with how the word "graft" is used to understand its spiritual usage in the parables as well as the word "natural" the temporal as a shadow of the eternal . Keeping in the mind our prescription to aid in the parables below.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

The way it seems to be used is men use the literal flesh of a Jew as the standard to be grafted in. Or what the eyes see.

When they themselves they are simply used as shadows as a representative glory of God .His chaste virgin bride the church, that he re-named or gave another name "Christian" a word that denotes residents of the city of Christ as His eternal bride. She is shown coming down (Revelation21)

If we would put the literal flesh of Jew in the Holy place of God as the standard grafted into it would be no different than uses the flesh of a gentile as the standard and graft in a Jew.

Its never about the temporal shadow or veil in that way. We are not grafted into a shadow of the good thing to come but our promised new incorruptible bodies the good thing.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

God puts no difference between a Jew or a gentile. But by the work of His faith working in their hearts to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness) He converts one giving them new Spirit life in the same way as a another. purifying their hearts by His labor of love or called work of faith . You could say the one work of purifying is the grafting, that grafts both Jew and gentile, male and female into the one tree of Life Christ, unseen.

We are grafted in a unseen spiritual incorruptible seed Christ. Absolutely no difference, same clay of the same field

Acts 15:8-10 (KJV) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference "between us and them", purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

You seem to want to explain away the distinction or difference Paul has given in (Rom. 11:13-25). You say no difference, same clay. Well, same clay as far as from Adam yes. Not the same clay from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.

As far as being saved it is always by faith. But the faith of the Jew was centered on Christ as their Messiah and King. The faith of the Gentile is centered on Christ as our Lord and Saviour. And also the repentance is different though it is repentance. The Jew repents from his rejection of the truth that he had about God and then turned away from God. The Gentile repents from his creation of and worship of other gods. It is God who made the distinction between Jew and Gentile.

When one is brought into the Body of Christ, the Church, then there is no difference between Jew and Gentile as far as their place and standing before God. But to the Jews and Gentiles as a people whom God is working out His salvation, there is distinction. And this distinction is what Paul is addressing in (Rom. 11). One is the natural branches. One is the wild branches.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

yes Jews were original branch (the cultivated olive)

You are correct, and I see I have made a mistake. In my post #(43) I indicated the natural branches were not grafted in, but I see now in (Rom. 11:24) that they are grafted in though they are natural branches. "...how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree."

Quantrill

 

[posthuman]

Sounds like Buddha, or Gandhi, or some old hippie.

Quantrill

these are wiser men than me. except i am not sure which old hippy you mean.

 

[Quantrill]

these are wiser men than me. except i am not sure which old hippy you mean.

Might want to keep that to yourself.

Quantrill

 

[posthuman]

No, not at all.

Quantrill

peace

2 Thessalonians 3:16
Now the Lord of peace Himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord [be] with you all.

love

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

compassion

Matthew 9:36
But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.



how can you say these qualities have nothing to do with Jesus Christ Son of God?

do you not know Him, not at all, Q?

 

[posthuman]

Might want to keep that to yourself.

Quantrill

He gives grace to the humble and sets His face against the proud.

might want to shout it from every rooftop