Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[reneweddaybyday]

I agree with this. But God does this via the word, the gospel, that which saves people from their sins. No one is zapped and then later on they come to faith and repentance. As the gospel is being brought to the lost, God moves through it(the gospel) to bring them to saving faith in Christ.

Repentance and faith happen simultaneously, and this is done through the word of God as it is being used.

Yes!!! Heb 4:12 for the word of God is quick —

Quick = zaō which means life-giving, having vital power in itself and exerting the same upon the soul.

It is the Word of God which gives life to the hearer.

However, if the hearer rejects the Word of God, that person does not receive the benefit of that life-giving Word.

And that does not mean the Word of God is not life-giving. It just means the hearer will reap the consequences of his or her unbelief.

 

[preacher4truth]

I see no mention as to how the old testament saints had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and had never heard the gospel. You will never be able to harmonize the King James version of the scriptures with your lack of knowledge until you rightly divide the salvation scriptures. Most of them have reference to a deliverance here on earth and not on eternal deliverance. Acts 2:40 - An with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, SAVE yourselves from this untoward generation. Are you going to tell me that the word "save" has reference to eternal life? If so, then it would be eternal salvation (deliverance) by the works of man.

Wrong.

Repentance and belief are not the works of man, but the work of God. Calling it works shows your error and lack of understanding and harmonizing the Scriptures, this is why you go astray, you misunderstand Scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:14 and 2 Timothy 2:15 go hand in hand, but you need to begin with the former passage before you can properly implement the latter.

Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Belief, repentance are God's work in a man to eternal life via the Gospel; Romans 1:16 &c.

You do gravely err not knowing this.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The gospel is not the cause of eternal salvation.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I asked you a question. You do not want to answer until I go down some rabbit trail with you. Not interested in further discussion with you concerning this issue. Thank you.

Calvinists don't like to be backed into a corner . . . maybe the council of Dork doesn't have an answer.

You'll be called hateful in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

... your cop out ...

Quit your dishonest accusations.

I'm aware of the reason you won't answer.

Since there was no "cop out" on my part, it is apparent you are aware of only of that which you have made up in the tapestry of your own thoughts.

 

[preacher4truth]

Quit your dishonest accusations.




Since there was no "cop out" on my part, it is apparent you are aware of only of that which you have made up in the tapestry of your own thoughts.

OK.

There was no dishonesty on my part. I asked you a question, you've refused to answer it.

REFUSED to answer it.

I made you a kind offer, that if you would finally answer my question, I would then be more than glad to answer yours in kind.

You've refused to do this.

My offer stands as stated.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

OK.

There was no dishonesty on my part. I asked you a question, you've refused to answer it.

REFUSED to answer it.

I made you a kind offer, that if you would finally answer my question, I would then be more than glad to answer yours in kind.

You've refused to do this.

My offer stands as stated.

Happy Thanksgiving!

I have no desire to engage in discussion with you if you truly believe that your recall of the conversation is as you have stated.

Have a very nice Thanksgiving.


Psalm 100

1 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.

2 Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.

3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

5 For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.

 

[preacher4truth]

I have no desire to engage in discussion with you...

OK, but my offer still stands. Blessings to you!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

You need to ditch the version of bible you are referencing and compare it with the KJV. Nowhere in the old testament is the word gospel mentioned. The gospel = The narrative of the sayings, deeds, and death of Jesus Christ came to be called the gospel, or good tidings.

Gospel = good news.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.(Genesis 3:15) This is good news. Ermmm, hey, the King James Bible does not have the word ‘gospel’ here.

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;(Deuteronomy 18:15) This is where Moses was foretelling the coming Messiah, and this is good news. Ermmmm, hey, the King James Bible does not have the word ‘gospel here, either.

Then there is Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 7, etc.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.(Job 19:25-27)

Job called God His redeemer. To be redeemed means to be bought back, which is good news.

I used the King James Bible to satisfy you my friend. I do not need to ditch my versions for your version. The King James Bible is a version of God’s word my friend, nothing more nothing less. You need not make an idol of it my friend. God hates idols and idolatry. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.(1 Cor. 6:9)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

True. At the same time, we are told IN THE NEW TESTAMENT that the Gospel was preached to the Israelites in the wilderness, yet they did not believe.

HEBREWS 3 & 4
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached -- (εὐηγγελισμένοι = having had the Gospel preached) -- as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

We know of at least one incident referred to by Christ which would fit this:
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:14,15)

This once again refutes limited atonement. *Whosoever believeth* means anyone and everyone who believes the Gospel, not *whosoever is elect and believes*.

This does not refute limited atonement in the fact of 1 Cor 2:14 says the natural man until he is regenerated cannot discern spiritual things. Whosoever believeth (present tense) that leaves the natural man out. "although the works were finished FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD". John 6:39 - Jesus said that he would not lose any that he died for, but raise them up at the last day. Eph 1:4 - According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Gospel = good news.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.(Genesis 3:15) This is good news. Ermmm, hey, the King James Bible does not have the word ‘gospel’ here.

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;(Deuteronomy 18:15) This is where Moses was foretelling the coming Messiah, and this is good news. Ermmmm, hey, the King James Bible does not have the word ‘gospel here, either.

Then there is Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, Isaiah 7, etc.

For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.(Job 19:25-27)

Job called God His redeemer. To be redeemed means to be bought back, which is good news.

I used the King James Bible to satisfy you my friend. I do not need to ditch my versions for your version. The King James Bible is a version of God’s word my friend, nothing more nothing less. You need not make an idol of it my friend. God hates idols and idolatry. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.(1 Cor. 6:9)

1 Cor 6:9 has reference to "the kingdom of God" which is one name among many that the visible church is called. Paul, in his letter to the "church of God"(one of the other names the visible church is called by) addressing fornication, saying in verse 5 - To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, THAT THE SPIRIT MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes!!! Heb 4:12 for the word of God is quick —

Quick = zaō which means life-giving, having vital power in itself and exerting the same upon the soul.

It is the Word of God which gives life to the hearer.

However, if the hearer rejects the Word of God, that person does not receive the benefit of that life-giving Word.

And that does not mean the Word of God is not life-giving. It just means the hearer will reap the consequences of his or her unbelief.

The natural man will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he does not understand. Before he can believe in spiritual laws or repent of them he has to be regenerated (Eph 2:5).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

Salvation is "a deliverance". This scripture has reference to a deliverance , the child of God, receive here on earth as he comes unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel is not the cause of our eternal deliverance. Believing, repenting, obeying God's commandments are not the cause of our eternal deliverance, else, it would be eternal salvation by the works of man.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Salvation is "a deliverance". This scripture has reference to a deliverance , the child of God, receive here on earth as he comes unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel is not the cause of our eternal deliverance. Believing, repenting, obeying God's commandments are not the cause of our eternal deliverance, else, it would be eternal salvation by the works of man.

Deny all you want. Scripture is clear — the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom 1:16).

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

Deny all you want. Scripture is clear — the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom 1:16).

The sad part is he is mocking those who have died spreading the gospel to people in remote areas. Look at what the Apostles went through to proclaim it. And he says it is not necessary.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The sad part is he is mocking those who have died spreading the gospel to people in remote areas. Look at what the Apostles went through to proclaim it. And he says it is not necessary.

That as well as the unscriptural doctrine that God allows only the "elect" to "hear" the gospel and He does not allow those who find themselves cast into the lake of fire to "hear" the gospel.

In other words, those who are not "elect" engage in behavior that is abomination to God, yet God does not allow them to "hear", and then God casts them into the lake of fire for not "hearing" / "repenting".

 

[hunterpoet2531]

rightly divide the word, what is to the Jewish nation is for them, what is to the church is for Jews and Gentiles made one in Christ Jesus

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[preacher4truth]

Salvation is "a deliverance". This scripture has reference to a deliverance , the child of God, receive here on earth as he comes unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel is not the cause of our eternal deliverance. Believing, repenting, obeying God's commandments are not the cause of our eternal deliverance, else, it would be eternal salvation by the works of man.

More Gospel denying nonsense. You've been thoroughly hoodwinked!

 

[preacher4truth]

Salvation is "a deliverance". This scripture has reference to a deliverance , the child of God, receive here on earth as he comes unto a knowledge of the truth of the gospel. Believing the gospel is not the cause of our eternal deliverance. Believing, repenting, obeying God's commandments are not the cause of our eternal deliverance, else, it would be eternal salvation by the works of man.

Just want to clarify why the above is a false gospel. No person on this earth is a "child of God" prior to repentance and faith in the Gospel. This is what FGC is trying to say though, that they are a child of God. Already.

John 1:12 is clear on this that through believing we become the children of God "... to become the children of God, even to those who believe on his name" ("believe" present tense) though this salvation was not via decision or free will, blood line &c John 1:13. FGC also has those who do not believe in His name as children of God because "he can tell it's so" through mysticism and his false gospel.

The Gospel is not some temporary deliverance from the ills of this world. That is absolutely false.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

@preacher4truth ... not sure why you disagreed with Post #736. I have had discussions with those who believe exactly what I stated.