Question(s) to those who believe salvation can be lost

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Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Scripture Key:

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
Problem is that you fail to ignore what lies before your bold words. Which is what we do mostly anymore; ignore some parts and focus on the parts that line up with our theology. Let me post it to you the way it says as well:

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Now I can see more clearly! Yeah, that sounds like a Christian? Christians don't have a heart of unbelieving do they? Everything after that is VOID when it is discussed about a Christian because of that. This is not referring to children of God.

  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Jesus is warning about falling away, which means “departing” from Him while under persecution.
Again, the devils 'believe'... right? I guess the devils saved? Hopefully point is made clearly!

Here is Matthews version of the sower -

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20
Let me rebold your scripture again:

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Let's look at what was said before Jesus explains it:

Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

This is a different kind of heart and person. If two people owned fields, those fields would be separated by rocks so that the fields could be separated from one another. There will be some earth on these stones but not much, so when the seed is thrown out there liberally, some of the seed will land on these stony dividers. So when it’s sown, and the sun comes out, it kills what had sprouted because there is no depth in their growth.

A plant will grow roots, and when the roots hit something hard like a rock, the roots are actually pushing the plant upwards. So the plant above ground looks really healthy. The issue is that the roots can’t go any further, so they are unable to get to the nutrients and soil that they need to grow properly. So, on the outside they look great, but on the inside they are not. Doesn’t this sound just like the description Christ told the Pharisees? To see this a bit further, let’s look at the Greek for deepness (they had no deepness).

bath'-os

From the same as G901; profundity, that is, (by implication) extent; (figuratively) mystery: - deep (-ness, things), depth.

These people had no insight or great depth of knowledge or thought. That is exactly what profundity means. This means that they heard the Word of God, got excited about it, and for a little while was on fire, but without a deep insight or a depth of knowledge, they never got the Word deeply ingrained in their heart. They have the nutrients they do need, but they don’t get them because their heart is not into getting them, and when the trials and tribulations come, they give up. They don't get the nutrients they need: CHRIST, which leads to eternal salvation.

How many times have we seen someone claim to come to the Lord and they have all the outward signs that they are just on fire for the Lord. They witness, share their testimony and appear to just be loving life now. Then when something happens in their life, they whither up and don’t stay with the Lord.

They hear it, have knowledge of it, but not a deep rooted knowledge, or they would have stayed with the Lord. These people never allowed what knowledge they had to take them into saving faith. They have made an OUTWARD decision, but never made an INWARD commitment. They are excited, but when things don’t go their way, trials come, tribulation arises, they expect God to be the Genie in the book they can rub, and He’s going to just make it all better. They think that, well, I’ve been doing this and doing that, so why is THIS happening? Why is THAT happening? Don’t you love me Jesus? Then they leave, without ever coming to the saving faith in Christ Jesus.

Jesus explains this in verse 21:

Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Says it all…
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Problem is that you fail to ignore what lies before your bold words. Which is what we do mostly anymore; ignore some parts and focus on the parts that line up with our theology. Let me post it to you the way it says as well:

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

Now I can see more clearly! Yeah, that sounds like a Christian? Christians don't have a heart of unbelieving do they? Everything after that is VOID when it is discussed about a Christian because of that. This is not referring to children of God.
That's it right there brother!
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
They don’t have to say once saved always saved, people who were saved understood that it was God who saved us, and God who keeps us saved. (Except for jews, and some gentiles who still thought religion is what makes us right with God)

The warnings are always to make sure we have or had real faith in Christ, and it was not just for show (even demons believe)
Right

2Co_13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If you sinning and you are LOVING it... LIVING it... SLEEPING with it... And call yourself a brother... which again, when Paul says, "one who is called a brother" doesn't make them a brother... well if they are doing that? They need to examine themselves? How? By the Word of God....

Those are warning to people to make sure they ARE TRULY saved; not warnings of losing our salvation :D
 
Sep 9, 2018
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Read the last verse... I think it tells us exactly if the person was saved or not. He was not, and that it why it is stated previously kick him out so that he MAY BE saved.
Your used of "I think" says that you are not sure. At any rate, the man was a 'brother' per verse 11.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (I Corinthians 5:11-13).
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Your used of "I think" says that you are not sure. At any rate, the man was a 'brother' per verse 11.

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (I Corinthians 5:11-13).
I've already explained this.... "I THINK" you would of read it. :D
 
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If any man is CALLED a brother... Hmmm.... I can call myself a brother all day long, but does that make me one? I can act like I'm a Christian, just so I can appease my family from irritating me with their preaching. I might even go to Church on holidays to make it even look like I'm a brother. Yeah.... anyone can call and be called a brother; doesn't make them one.
"Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God" (Romans 2:17).

Then I guess this guy isn't really a Jew . . .
 
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Nope, sorry friend. You're saying he was a brother, and a Christian, yet Paul never said that. The implication is "so-called brother,"
"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:23).

Of course, Jesus was never really a Nazarene . . .
 
Dec 28, 2016
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"Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God" (Romans 2:17).

Then I guess this guy isn't really a Jew . . .
Wow, talk about not dealing with the text, and jumping to another. Very poor and invalid argument. It proves nothing.

Next!
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
"Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God" (Romans 2:17).

Then I guess this guy isn't really a Jew . . .
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
 
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If any man is CALLED a brother... Hmmm.... I can call myself a brother all day long, but does that make me one? I can act like I'm a Christian, just so I can appease my family from irritating me with their preaching. I might even go to Church on holidays to make it even look like I'm a brother. Yeah.... anyone can call and be called a brother; doesn't make them one.
"He that deviseth to do evil shall be called a mischievous person" (Proverbs 24:8).

I'm sure this guy will be glad to know that he is really a nice guy.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene" (Matthew 2:23).

Of course, Jesus was never really a Nazarene . . .
And yet another poor and invalid argument.

With all due respect you are showing as to why you have such poor understanding of texts!
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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So you believe murderer every day go to heaven, but you say you sin every day, but not murderer

Sin every day go to heaven

Murder every day go to heaven, because we are under grace.

But you also believe the Wage of sin is death/spiritual death or hell

Seem to me you not agree with yourself
What is your issue with murder? :D I am with the rest of them, not sure where you are going with all this. First u're freaked out on polygamy, and now murder. You realize you do sins ALL THE TIME? Forget Murder. As yourself if you keep on sinning, are YOU burning in Hell? Sometimes we beat around the bush and don't even look at our own lives in perspective. Sin IS Sin; no matter how little or big. There is no such thing as good sin.
 

Epiales

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Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Repenting and confessing our sin to God, to be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness is the to continue with the Lord; to abide in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1 John 3:24




If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6



This is the principle, Jesus was teaching in the parable of the lost sheep.


Being forgiven.



Matthew shows us how to regain someone who sins against us.





How can someone be joined to Christ without believing?



JLB
How can people go to Church without believing?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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What is your issue with murder? :D I am with the rest of them, not sure where you are going with all this. First u're freaked out on polygamy, and now murder. You realize you do sins ALL THE TIME? Forget Murder. As yourself if you keep on sinning, are YOU burning in Hell? Sometimes we beat around the bush and don't even look at our own lives in perspective. Sin IS Sin; no matter how little or big. There is no such thing as good sin.
Rev 21

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

King James Version (KJV)

I do not have problem with murder or adulterer that is their business.

But to say that murder or adulterer untill die go to heaven, acuused God liar.

I believe rev 21:18 is God word and He never lie
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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Church members?

I asked how a person can be joined to Christ, “in Christ”, unless the believe?

The scripture refers to those who are in Christ, then removed from Christ.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
JLB
"If a man abide not in me,.... Christ does not say, "if ye abide not in me"; he would not suppose this of his true disciples; Judas now being removed, to whom he may have some respect in this verse; though it may be applied to anyone who has made a profession of Christ, and denies the truths of the Gospel, neglects the ordinances of it, or walks unworthy of his profession: of whom the following things may be truly said,

he is cast forth as a branch; that is unfruitful, and is therefore taken away from the vine, and cast forth out of the vineyard. This signifies the ejection of worthless and fruitless professors out of the churches; for such who are either unsound in their principles, or are remiss and negligent in their attendance on the worship of God, with the church, or are loose and vain in their lives and conversations, are to be removed from communion with the people of God. "

Again, perfect example. Person that is "CALLED" a brother in the Corinthian Church, but they get the boot because they are wicket and unfruitful.

"If a man, abide not in me - If a man is not truly united to him by faith, and does not live with a continual sense of his dependence on him. This doubtless refers to those who are professors of religion, but who have never known anything of true and real connection with him."

"Is withered - Is dried up. A branch cut off withers. So of a soul unconnected with Christ, however fair it may have appeared. and however flourishing when a profession of religion was first made, yet when it is tried, and it is seen that there was no true grace, everything withers and dies. The zeal languishes, the professed love is gone, prayer is neglected, the sanctuary is forsaken, and the soul becomes like a withered branch reserved for the fire of the last great day. "
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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1 John 3:
Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

There is your answer. Move on.
This is the perfect truth of our spiritual position in Christ Jesus! Plan and simple and easily understood. Can't take this out of context.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Even if they decided to kick you out. Their blood and dna is still in your body. You would still be their daughter. Nothing can break that.
Yeah, change your name, color your hair, tattoo your body with I have no parents, disown them, say you don't have parent.... Move to another country... Can't change the fact that your DNA will always match with theirs. Spiritual DNA also applies. :D
 
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This is the perfect truth of our spiritual position in Christ Jesus! Plan and simple and easily understood. Can't take this out of context.
It depends on what you are trying to say with quoting the verse. Are you saying that you are sinlessly perfect? or are you saying that a Christian is incapable of sinning in their spirit--the inner sanctum where God dwells?

What appears to be simple and easily understood is not always so.