Revelation 17:8

[eternally-gratefull]

Well it’s possible that a derivative of the Roman Empire will exist at this time in the future, if it doesn’t already exist (Roman Catholic)

I believe the roman empire (europe) will again take power. (The leader may not be from roma proper. And not sure that is required)

If they would truly unite (the european union or nations states) they would have the potential to be one of the most powerful nations ever seen.

I do not believe Catholic system is the final beast, I believe they may be the false prophet. Or maybe even babylon the great.

 

[Quantrill]

1. I told you, all beasts were men, They were the leaders of the kingdom with which they sat on the throne (babylon was th ebeast, Nebachadnezzar was the man)
2. It is in the passage, The 8th beast had not yet come..

9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to [f]perdition.

Who are the seven kings? They are the kings which have ruled Over Isreal

1. Egypt
2. Syria
3. babylon
4. Media persia
5. Greece

These 5 had fallen

1 is (rome was in power)

1 is yet to come (future rome, the beast who was, and is not, and is yet to come) looking from the perspctive of the time when John was looking.


The beast will be the antichrist. Who is also called the son of perdition. (Judas was the only other I know who was called this,) Who will be defeated by Jesus himself. And cast out.

You didn't adddress 'is not'. Had John been writing as if the angel was speaking from the future, the angel would have said 'was not'. But he didn't. He said 'is not'. Because the reference was from the time of John.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Is it possible the the phrase ‘who was, and is not’ is a description of something that existed at the time of John and will also exist at that time in the future?

The phrase 'is not' is a description of something that 'is not'. It does not exist in John's day. He did exist. He doesn't now. He will exist in the future.

Quantrill

 

[louis]

At the time(year) this was written who or what rose or will rise from the pit/abyss?

The bottomless pit (an unlimited resource), is another metaphor for the sea from which the beast will rise.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't adddress 'is not'. Had John been writing as if the angel was speaking from the future, the angel would have said 'was not'. But he didn't. He said 'is not'. Because the reference was from the time of John.

Quantrill

1. I did address it.
2. The fact you did not respond to the rest of what I wrote I must assume you agree with me
3. If you agree with me, You would kow I addressed it.

 

[louis]

I sincerely believe it blesses all. Please read what preceded that post and to which it is addressed and why.

I used to always read it and Daniel back-to-back because they speak of the same events. I am blessed, but at present, like Daniel, I hav yet been given to understand the inticancies of the books, however because of faith I believe them, and all of the Word. Thank you. God bless you for sharig.

Many shall run to and fro, and our understanding of what is written in Daniel and Revelation shall be increased when the end of the current age is upon us (Daniel 12:4 & 9).
When I look at the world around me today, I recognize the environmental degradation of the earth beginning to resemble what Revelation 8 describes.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

 

[Locutus]

Bottomless Pit - is that like the US treasury?

 

[JaumeJ]

God often gives prophecy in the passt tense stressing it is a sure occurrance.

 

[Embankment]

So when God prophesys, it is poetry, not God saying somethigh will happen to prove he is the one true God.

Who is God to you? What proof is there that he exists?

Messages can be relayed through poetry........
There are lots of great commentaries about this.

 

[garee]

"]JamielJ Rev 1:3 states ‘blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear...’ Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to the readers and hearers

That's interesting other Books provide the promise but do not validate it as it is written like Revelation 1:3. Seems to be about having a ear to hear.

Revelation1:1 is also set aside for a certain purpose( possibly.) Like the first commandment with a promise to the children if they obey their mother and father it may be well with them, and they may live long on the earth. Possibly a special kind of blessing

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified" it by his angel unto his servant John:

I would offer yes and that kind of reading "and they that hear" you offered in verse 3. in Revelation 1:1 it is the only one that informs us what kind of reading as...………. God gives us ears to hear. That hearing would appear to be in respect to and not only was it sent or inspired by God but is also "signified" Which is I believe using the temporal things seen to signify and give us the spiritual unseen eternal hearing or understanding , as a parable. According to 2 Corinthians 4:18 Christians are instructed how to understand the signified language of Revelation or any parable from any book.

While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

In that way without parables Christ spoke not. It would seem to be the poetic language of God as His signature. Taking metaphors from throughout the whole Bible so that His bride the church can find the hidden spiritual understanding as they reveal the good news called the hidden manna in Rev 2:17.

17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

 

[Embankment]

Embankment, if that’s true then why has no culture recorded 1/3 of the grass being burnt, or all of the sea life dying, or a slew of other events mentioned in the book? Revelation seems more like a historical account, not poetry at all...

Jesus himself told many stories through allegory.
Revelations is an artist presentation of the Roman Empire at the time of John as well as the current and future victory of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Messages can be relayed through poetry........
There are lots of great commentaries about this.

Messages can

Prophesy can not

The angel said he would show things which will come to pass

Thats prophesy, Not poetry

If people interpret things like poetry or symbolically. They will not understand what the angel is telling John, and us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus himself told many stories through allegory.
Revelations is an artist presentation of the Roman Empire at the time of John as well as the current and future victory of Christ.

Yep

But He also gave prophesy.

We need to learn the difference. Because they are two different forms of communication. And must be interpreted in different ways.

 

[Ahwatukee]

At the time(year) this was written who or what rose or will rise from the pit/abyss?

Good day iamsoandso,

Many people miss this, but at the sounding of the 5th trumpet/3rd woe, a star/angel falls from heaven to the earth having the key to the Abyss which he opens. Out of the Abyss comes those demonic beings that resemble locusts as well as other features, who will torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months having tails and stingers like that of scorpions. It is then mentioned in v.11 that these demons have a king over them, who is the angel of the Abyss, called Abaddon/Apollyon (destroyer). He is that beast who, once was, now is not and yet will come up from the Abyss. This angel/beast is the one who comes up from the Abyss and kills the two witnesses. This angel is not Satan, but another powerful fallen angel who I believe will be the power behind the antichrist.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Thank you for your reply Noose,,,

So that would mean satin was at that time bound in the pit? If so and he ascends out of the pit after the mill. then the 7th head and the ten horns recieve their kingdoms during the mill.?

Satan has not yet been bound, as he is not bound in the Abyss until after Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, where he will remain for a literal thousand years. To be clear, Satan currently has access to heaven and is still the god of this world, the principality of the air, the one who roams around like a lion seeking whom he may devour. Make no mistake, Satan is not currently locked up.

As I said in a previous post, this angel in the Abyss is not Satan, but another fallen angel.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I believe it is clear that it speaks to a person and not just the anti-christian government. (Rev. 17:11) And of this one it is said, 1.) he was. 2.) he is not. 3.) he comes from a place called perdition. 4.) shall ascend later out of perdition. 5.) shall return to perdition. (Rev. 17:8)

So he has existed before. He doesn't exist now as he is in perdition. But he will return to be empowered and indwelt by satan to do the work of satan.

I believe it could possibly be Judas Iscariot. This is not a new view, but most don't hold to it today. Yet I think there is sufficient Scripture to support it. Have you ever heard of this view?

Quantrill

Hello Quantrill,

The meanings are as follows:

Once was = this angel used to be out in the world, most likely as a power behind some other earthly leader(s)

Now is not = He is no longer in the world, but is in the Abyss

And yet will come = He is currently in the Abyss and at the appointed time will be released and come out

This beast is the same angel who is currently in the Abyss and who will come out at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, when that angel opens the Abyss to let those demonic locust beings out, who this angel has authority over.

"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Beast is not a leader but a leadership dedicated to Lucifer. The woman who rides is the Church of Rome. The Catholic Church has operated under the guise of Christianity but have killed true believers. That is why she is drunk on the blood of the saints. The Church of Rome has been behind the throne controlling kings since the beginning. The Beast is a Luciferian Leadership that overthrows the Catholic Church. My guess, possibly the Jesuits. They have Luciferian roots and are now in power. The Pope isn’t Catholic. The ten horns are ten kings not in power. My guess is nations who adopt the Luciferian way. Read the whole chapter. The seven heads are seven hills:
Seven hills of Rome

• Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
• Caelian Hill (Cælius, Celio)
• Capitoline Hill (Capitolinus, Campidoglio)
• Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
• Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
• Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
• Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

Hello Hungry,

I would also add that the beast is also a being, a fallen angel who will be the power behind the antichrist. For in Revelation 19:20, both the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire, which would infer that they are actual beings. I do whoever agree with the Catholic Church as being the woman who rides the beast. In fact, I believe that one of the future pope's will play the part of the false prophet. By doing so and performing those miracles, signs and wonders, he will have all of those who are dedicated to the pope and Roman Catholicism, deceived.

 

[JaumeJ]

I thought you were following the example of Mary and keeping to yourself. A wise decision on your part I would say. If you don't want to know anything about (Revelation) then keep silent. Others may.

Quantrill

You know you are misrepresenting what I posted previously about Mary keeping things in her heart, to herself.

Then after I post something that is written not only in Revelation but in the Old Testaament you, with your monumental understanding of aqll you read tell me to do what Mary did and leave. Have you see the error of your way in so doing? pERHAPS gOD WILL SHOW YOU......iF hE DOES IT WILL NOT BE UNFAIR...LET ME KNOW HOW THINGS ARE GOING FOR YOU, BUT PLEAQSE DO NOT ANSWER TO MY POSTS WHEN THEY ARE NOT DIRECTDO TO YOU, ESPECIALLY WHEN YU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE ARE SHARING IN THE SIGHT OF gOD.

 

[Embankment]

Messages can

Prophesy can not

The angel said he would show things which will come to pass

Thats prophesy, Not poetry

If people interpret things like poetry or symbolically. They will not understand what the angel is telling John, and us.

I agree people do not know how to interpret John. One should do some praying and studying instead of towing the line.

 

[Hungry]

Hello Hungry,

I would also add that the beast is also a being, a fallen angel who will be the power behind the antichrist. For in Revelation 19:20, both the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire, which would infer that they are actual beings. I do whoever agree with the Catholic Church as being the woman who rides the beast. In fact, I believe that one of the future pope's will play the part of the false prophet. By doing so and performing those miracles, signs and wonders, he will have all of those who are dedicated to the pope and Roman Catholicism, deceived.

I disagree with you partially. As we are the Body of Christ, but not Christ, I would say the beast of chapter 17 is the body of the individual. It states she was riding a beast with seven heads and ten horns. Then it clearly describes this as seven hills and ten kings. It’s a leadership, in the name of the beast.