Revelation 17:8

[Ahwatukee]

I disagree with you partially. As we are the Body of Christ, but not Christ, I would say the beast of chapter 17 is the body of the individual. It states she was riding a beast with seven heads and ten horns. Then it clearly describes this as seven hills and ten kings. It’s a leadership, in the name of the beast.

Well, I would remind you that the beast is in the Abyss, which is the same place that those demons collectively called Legion begged Jesus not to send them into (Luke 8:31)

The term "beast" is used to represent Satan, the last day kingdom and the angel who resides in the Abyss. You need to differentiate between these meanings.

Regarding the seven heads, we know that they are symbolic representing seven hills/mountains which the woman/city sits on, which is speaking of her headquarters. The beast/angel who comes up from the Abyss is an eighth king which is represented by one of those heads. In fact the head that receives the fatal wound and survives is that beast who comes up from the Abyss. As I said in an earlier post, the beast is also an individual as revealed below:

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown [alive] into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

That fact that the beast and the false prophet are referred to as "the two of them" and are both thrown alive into the lake of fire, would demonstrate that they are individuals.

Regarding those ten kings, scripture states the following:

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast."

Therefore, the horns represent those ten future kings who will rule concurrently along with the beast and will give their authority to him.

 

[Nehemiah6]

At the time(year) this was written who or what rose or will rise from the pit/abyss?

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This was prophetic and pointed to the future. It has nothing to do when it was written.

Satan is called Apollyon or Abaddon in Rev 9:11, and is the ruler of the demons in the bottomless pit. He will take possession of the Beast (the Antichrist) and thus he is fully identified as the Beast who ascends out of the bottomless pit. This pertains to the future reign of Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years during the 70th week of Daniel, when they are allowed to take absolute control of the inhabitants of the earth.

As to going into perdition (Hell), that applies to the Devil, the Beast, and the False Prophet being cast into the Lake of Fire, the last two after Armageddon, and Satan after the battle of Gog and Magog.

"the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" indicates Satanic deception.

 

[Quantrill]

1. I did address it.
2. The fact you did not respond to the rest of what I wrote I must assume you agree with me
3. If you agree with me, You would kow I addressed it.

No, you did not address what I said concerning 'is not'. Go back and reread. You assume wrong.

Quantrill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you did not address what I said concerning 'is not'. Go back and reread. You assume wrong.

Quantrill

You go back and read. I did (the 8th beast had not yet assumed power even in the time John was seeing, The 7th beast was alredy dead by that time. The 8th and 7th beasts are one and the same, See Daniels prophesies concerning the final Gentile empire)

And while your at it. Speak to the rest of what I posted, which proved my point.

 

[Quantrill]

Hello Quantrill,

The meanings are as follows:

Once was = this angel used to be out in the world, most likely as a power behind some other earthly leader(s)

Now is not = He is no longer in the world, but is in the Abyss

And yet will come = He is currently in the Abyss and at the appointed time will be released and come out

This beast is the same angel who is currently in the Abyss and who will come out at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, when that angel opens the Abyss to let those demonic locust beings out, who this angel has authority over.

"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

Hello. Are you saying the beast is an angel and not a man?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

You go back and read. I did (the 8th beast had not yet assumed power even in the time John was seeing, The 7th beast was alredy dead by that time. The 8th and 7th beasts are one and the same, See Daniels prophesies concerning the final Gentile empire)

And while your at it. Speak to the rest of what I posted, which proved my point.

No, you never addressed my point of 'is not'. You claimed that the reference was from the future and not from the time that John lived. I disagreed. My point was if the reference was from the future the angel would never have said 'is not'. He would have said "The beast that thou sawest was, and was not..." But he didn't say that. He said "the beast that thou sawest was and is not..."

None of what you say in the rest of what you posted will change what I have said here. We must clear this up first.

Quantrill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, you never addressed my point of 'is not'. You claimed that the reference was from the future and not from the time that John lived. I disagreed. My point was if the reference was from the future the angel would never have said 'is not'. He would have said "The beast that thou sawest was, and was not..." But he didn't say that. He said "the beast that thou sawest was and is not..."

None of what you say in the rest of what you posted will change what I have said here. We must clear this up first.

Quantrill

Yeah, whatever, I should have known.

You can think whatever you want, I answered what you wanted by showing you IN CONTEXT what the angel said. And using other prophesies to prove it was correct.

But you want to ignore that, So be it..

 

[Quantrill]

You know you are misrepresenting what I posted previously about Mary keeping things in her heart, to herself.

Then after I post something that is written not only in Revelation but in the Old Testaament you, with your monumental understanding of aqll you read tell me to do what Mary did and leave. Have you see the error of your way in so doing? pERHAPS gOD WILL SHOW YOU......iF hE DOES IT WILL NOT BE UNFAIR...LET ME KNOW HOW THINGS ARE GOING FOR YOU, BUT PLEAQSE DO NOT ANSWER TO MY POSTS WHEN THEY ARE NOT DIRECTDO TO YOU, ESPECIALLY WHEN YU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT PEOPLE ARE SHARING IN THE SIGHT OF gOD.

You're such a coward. You post something without giving a name to who you are addressing. Why? So you can whine like you are doing now about someone answering your post when it wasn't directed at them. Your post wasn't directed at anyone. So does that mean no one can respond to you? What a coward you are. You want a free ride. You have your ace in the hole....you believe.

If you post it, anyone can respond to it. If you're scared then please end each post with 'please no one respond to my post as I am scared'. Or you can fit my name only in there if you like.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Yeah, whatever, I should have known.

You can think whatever you want, I answered what you wanted by showing you IN CONTEXT what the angel said. And using other prophesies to prove it was correct.

But you want to ignore that, So be it..

You should have known what? You have proven you never addressed the point I made. Instead you blew a bunch of smoke hoping everyone would get lost in the fog.

You didn't show any prophecies that addressed the point I was making. You gave prophecies that added to your smoke screen.

If you want to clear it up, explain it now.

Quantrill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You should have known what? You have proven you never addressed the point I made. Instead you blew a bunch of smoke hoping everyone would get lost in the fog.

You didn't show any prophecies that addressed the point I was making. You gave prophecies that added to your smoke screen.

If you want to clear it up, explain it now.

Quantrill

I did, You can’t see becauae you do not want to. You can’t even discuss what I posted.

it is not my responsibility to get you to believe what I say, You will only see what you want.

The passage speaks of a beast. I used prophesies which speak of that beast. For you to say I did. Not show prophesies is just wrong..

But to say I did nto answer because YOU do not agree.. well that just proves your true heart in the issue

 

[Quantrill]

I did, You can’t see becauae you do not want to. You can’t even discuss what I posted.

it is not my responsibility to get you to believe what I say, You will only see what you want.

The passage speaks of a beast. I used prophesies which speak of that beast. For you to say I did. Not show prophesies is just wrong..

But to say I did nto answer because YOU do not agree.. well that just proves your true heart in the issue

I have restated what I have said. The time reference. You placed it in the future. I said the reference was in Johns time. The angel said, "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not..." (Rev. 17:8) If it had been from the reference of the future, the the angel would have said "was, and was not..."

You have not responded to this.

Quantrill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have restated what I have said. The time reference. You placed it in the future. I said the reference was in Johns time. The angel said, "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not..." (Rev. 17:8) If it had been from the reference of the future, the the angel would have said "was, and was not..."

You have not responded to this.

Quantrill

And I proved that no matter what time you look at. There was an issue

1. The beast was in johns day, it had not died yet
2. The beast in the future had died (when rome fell)
3. The final form of the beast will come to power
4. That beast will be destroyed by Christ himself.

Then I used the passage itself to prove there was 8 beasts, so you could get context, which AGAIN, you did not even respond too.

But you think however you want, But do not say I never answered you.. Because you would be lieing.

 

[Quantrill]

And I proved that no matter what time you look at. There was an issue

1. The beast was in johns day, it had not died yet
2. The beast in the future had died (when rome fell)
3. The final form of the beast will come to power
4. That beast will be destroyed by Christ himself.

Then I used the passage itself to prove there was 8 beasts, so you could get context, which AGAIN, you did not even respond too.

But you think however you want, But do not say I never answered you.. Because you would be lieing.

But, the angel said the beast that thou sawest is not. It didn't exist from the reference the angel gave which was the time when John was given the revelation. Had it been future, the angel would have said 'was not'.

You now say it doesn't matter. That is not what you said before. I am saying it does matter. The reference in time is from the time when the revelation was given. Not from the time in the future when it occurred.

Well, yes, you answered, you just didn't address what I was saying.

Quantrill

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But, the angel said the beast that thou sawest is not. It didn't exist from the reference the angel gave which was the time when John was given the revelation. Had it been future, the angel would have said 'was not'.

You now say it doesn't matter. That is not what you said before. I am saying it does matter. The reference in time is from the time when the revelation was given. Not from the time in the future when it occurred.

Well, yes, you answered, you just didn't address what I was saying.

Quantrill

Your not listening to a word I have said.

If you have questions, Ask. But please stop assuming.

I proved who the beast was based on what the angel said in the same Conversations

7 beasts,

5 Have died (egypt, syria, babylon, media/persia, greece)
1 is (rome) (Alive in Johns day)
1 is yet to come (rome 2) at the time of the prophesy, Had died, yet will live again). (WHICH IS THE BEAST WE ARE DISCUSSING)

These beasts we know BECAUSE Gabriel spoek to Daniel about 5 of those beasts. One of which was alive in Johns day, yet that beast will die, and live again in the end.

it all fits..

If you can’t see it, I can not help you.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This was prophetic and pointed to the future. It has nothing to do when it was written.

Satan is called Apollyon or Abaddon in Rev 9:11, and is the ruler of the demons in the bottomless pit. He will take possession of the Beast (the Antichrist) and thus he is fully identified as the Beast who ascends out of the bottomless pit. This pertains to the future reign of Satan and the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years during the 70th week of Daniel, when they are allowed to take absolute control of the inhabitants of the earth.

As to going into perdition (Hell), that applies to the Devil, the Beast, and the False Prophet being cast into the Lake of Fire, the last two after Armageddon, and Satan after the battle of Gog and Magog.

"the beast that was, and is not, and yet is" indicates Satanic deception.

Nehmiah,

Satan is not Abaddon/Apollyon. That angel is said to currently be restricted in the Abyss and will come out at the sounding of the 5th trumpet. That said, Satan is still out and about, having access to heaven and the earth. This angel/beast is a separate entity from Satan, i.e. another fallen angel which used to be out in the world and at some point was put into the Abyss. In further support of this, Rev.13 states that Satan will give his power, seat and authority to the beast, which is one of the eighth king and the one who receives the fatal wound and survives.

Consider this as well, when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the beast is thrown into the lake of fire alive and Satan is cast into the Abyss. Therefore, the fact that they go to two different places would demonstrate that Satan and the angel of the Abyss are two separate beings.

The words "once was, now is not and yet will come" is referring to the fact that this beast/angel was once in the world and now is not because he's in the Abyss and at some point will be released.

Regarding the antichrist, he is a man, as Paul referred to him as "the man of lawlessness." When that angel/Apollyon comes up out of the Abyss, he will be the power behind the antichrist from the middle of the seven years until Christ returns.

 

[garee]

The term "beast" is used to represent Satan, the last day kingdom and the angel who resides in the Abyss. You need to differentiate between these meanings.

Beast refers to the dust of the field creatures that have DNA And not lying Spirit like Satan who has no form .his creation isnot subject to salvation. Christ did not give his spirit life to save the angels.

Man is one of those creatures as would a serpent who once walked upright which God used to give a face to Satan, who remains without form.

Satan the non DNA kind is not of the cattle kind or man kind the DNA kind

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello. Are you saying the beast is an angel and not a man?

Quantrill

Greetingsw Quantrill,

The antichrist is a man, as Paul identified him as "the man of lawlessness."

"Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed. He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God."

The beast is a designation given to a powerful fallen angel who prior to John once was in the world but now is not in the world because at some point he was put into the Abyss. At the sounding of the 5th trumpet, when those demonic beings resembling locusts are released, this is when their king, that angel of the Abyss comes out. He's the same one who will kill the two witnesses and that eighth king.

The antichrist will establish his seven year covenant and then just prior to the middle at the sounding of the 5th trumpet, that angel of the Abyss will come out and will over power and kill the two witnesses. It is when he is released that he will be the power behind the antichrist, possessed by him if you will.

"They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. "

"They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."

Regarding what I am talking about by that fallen angel, the beast, as being the power behind the antichrist, consider the following:

"Do not be afraid, Daniel,” he said, “for from the first day that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision concerns those days.”

This angel (possibly Gabriel) was sent to Daniel as soon as he began to pray. However, this angel was kept from reaching Daniel by the prince of Persia for 21 days. This of course was not speaking in regards to the human prince of Persia, but the angel and the powers of darkness in the spiritual realm who were the power behind the human prince of Persia and his army. It will be the same with the angel who comes up out of the Abyss who will be the power behind the antichrist who is a human being.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello. Are you saying the beast is an angel and not a man?

Quantrill

By the way, since the beast is said to be in the Abyss, there is no way that he could be a human being.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Satan is not Abaddon/Apollyon. That angel is said to currently be restricted in the Abyss and will come out at the sounding of the 5th trumpet.

There are many interpreters who identify Abaddon/Apollyon with Satan, for the simple reason that (1) all evil spirits and demons have JUST ONE KING OR PRINCE over them -- Satan. and (2) Satan is clearly identified by Christ as the Destroyer (which is the meaning of Abaddon). When we see the battle between the holy and the evil angels in Rev 12, it is Satan who is identified as the leader of the evil angels, and Michael as the leader over the holy angels.

Strong's Concordance
Abaddón: Abaddon, the angel of the abyss
Original Word: Ἀβαδδών, ὁ
Part of Speech: Proper Noun, Indeclinable
Transliteration: Abaddón
Phonetic Spelling: (ab-ad-dohn')
Definition: Abaddon, the angel of the abyss
Usage: Abaddon, Destroyer (i.e. Destroying Angel) or place of destruction (personified).

REVELATION 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This chapter also tells us that it is Satan who drew one-third of the holy angels to himself and created an army of evil angels. Therefore there cannot be two kings over the demons which dwell in the bottomless pit.

 

[MattforJesus]

Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel had a vision of the last 4 kingdoms on earth, which they were diverse from each other.

Babylon, human religion, the occult, when they lost the revelation of God, the kingdom of man, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty, Greece, human wisdom, the Roman Empire, pushing for dominion, territory.

Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The first three beasts shall never have physical dominion again, but their lives were prolonged for a season and time, which means their ways are still on earth.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

The Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts down the world, and the saints possess the kingdom on earth.

When the nations come together and say Peace and safety, the ten horn kingdom, the 7th head, is the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section.

Which the beast will deceive all people that do not love God, and when they follow the beast, then Jesus will put them down, and Jesus and the saints will rule the earth.

Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

None of the 4 kingdoms has fallen yet, for their ways are still on earth, and when Jesus puts down the last kingdom, then Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and the Roman Empire fall at that time.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

All 4 kingdoms are in the last kingdom, the beast kingdom, for the Roman Empire has the dominion, world domination, for they shall devour the whole earth, and got the world to go along with their plan, in which the nations come together, with the ways of a lion, Babylon, human religion, the occult, the kingdom of man, the ways of a bear, Medo-Persia, physical cruelty, the ways of a leopard, Greece, human wisdom.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

The ten horns are the physical dominion of the last kingdom, the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section, and the 7 heads are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Roman Empire, ten horn kingdom, which comes from the Roman Empire.

The crowns are on the heads, which is Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The crowns are on the ten horns, which is Satan in the natural realm deceiving people by the New Age Christ.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This war has not happened yet, and is not the when Satan got kicked out of the 3rd heaven where God dwells with the angels, but the devils are cast to earth because of the condition of the world in response to the Gospel, which it is international law that it cannot be preached, and the 6 trumpets which are warnings to the world to turn to God, and abandon their agenda of evolution, and people can still evolve, but they do not turn to God so He gives them the man of sin, New Age Christ, to rule over them, and deceive all people that do not love God.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Babylon has not fallen yet, for her ways are still on earth, and will fall in the future, which they resurrect the Babylonian system, and the earth becomes the holding cell of the devils, and they cannot roam around anymore, which Satan is the prince of the power of the air right now.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Since the Roman Empire does not lose her dominion until Jesus puts them down the Roman Catholic Church which is her religious system, becomes her unified religious system, which they give over to the new age movement interpretation the Bible warns us about, and the time the world will only want to hear the Bible that way, which is based on the occult, and evolution.

The Pope becomes the head of the unified religious system, and in the future the false prophet for the beast, and the Vatican becomes the headquarters, which is a unified religious system that includes all religions all interpreted by the new age movement.

So the woman becomes the Mother of harlots, and abominations of the earth, for she represents all the false religions, and the filthiness of the world.

She was drunken with the blood of the saints from the past, but also from that time too.

Which it is obvious that when the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their religious ways, but held unto them, and it became her foundation for the interpretation of scriptures, so she is pagan at her roots that interprets scriptures that way.

Continued,